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Bob
You said: You sort of lost me as far as the anchored frames go. I don't see why
that's even relevant but I may be missing something here.

We need the headlines and storys to be in separate text boxes in the same InCopy file. That way when the files are placed in InDesign the headline is in one text box and the story is in another which is divided into columns. The only way I can find to accomplish this is to use anchored text frames. If the reporter just makes a new InCopy document and starts typing away, when imported into InDesign everything (headline and story) are in the same text box (nothing is in columns) and the designers then have to cut and paste the headline into a new text box.

You also said: You can start off with Word and place that. The designer
does all the formatting and then exports the InCopy content.

Do you mean the reporters type their stories in Word, we then place them in InDesign and then export the copy so the reporter can make changes? If this is what you mean, I don't see how it could be very efficient as every story would have to be placed then exported and then updated again in InDesign. But as I said before I'm new to InCopy and I'm trying to figure it out as I go.

Barb

You don't have to check out a story to resize it in InDesign. By "resize" I'm assuming you mean "change the size of the text frame." The only time you need to check out anything is when you want to edit the contents of a frame.

I'm with Bob, I'm kind of wondering why you're considering InCopy. I mean, what aren't you able to do now with NewsEdit that you're hoping you'll be able to do with an InCopy/InDesign workflow?

Tell us that, and it'll be easier to give you advice/direction. (And no, you can't put the visitors to this forum to sleep when you're talking about your publishing workflow! LOL. That's what we live for.)

AM

Anne-Marie

We're using InDesign CS2 and want to switch to CS3 or CS4 (I think it's available). Apparently NewsEdit is not compatible with CS3 and we were told they have no plans in the future to make it compatible. So we thought if we have to buy a different program, we may as well stick with Adobe.

By resizing, I do mean changing the size of the text frame. When I place an InCopy file in InDesign and try to drag on one of the points to enlarge the box I get the error "You must check out contents of this frame in order to make changes." This applies to photos and cutlines also. Is this because I'm using Anchored Text Boxes? The files I place in InDesign consist of 3 boxes � the master text frame, the anchored box that contains the headline and the anchored box that contains the story. The master text frame is the only one I can resize, but of course that doesn't matter.

Again, is there another way to have 2 text boxes in an InCopy document? If not, as I stated before, we would have to place the story, draw another text box and cut and paste the headline into it. I'm trying to make things as simple and easy as I can for both the reporters and the designers.

Thanks again for your answers and suggestions.
Barb

It sounds like you're doing things the hard way. It also sounds like 
you're using InCopy CS4 with InDesign CS2 and if that's the case, all 
bets are truly off.

If you place the InCopy files in ID you should have no problem resizing 
the text frame and you can do this with only one InCopy story.

Place it and simply drag out the frames with the alt/opt+key held down. 
You'll get an overset if the first one is too small and you can drag out 
another frame and they'll be automatically linked.

Bob

Barbara, I'm sorry but no, you can't have 2 text frames in a native InCopy document. And in the one frame you have to work with, there is no way to divvy it up into columns.

It sounds like you might need one of the CMS's built on top of InDesign and InCopy, like Smart Connection Pro/Enterprise or K4. These systems *do* all you to create multiple-framed "article" templates for the InCopy users, along with other features that the stock IC/ID workflow doesn't. But the learning curve is fairly steep (especially in the beginning) and the cost starts at $20K and goes up from there, not including the cost of ID and IC themselves. Quite a difference compared to the $249 per editorial seat cost of a stock IC/ID workflow.

In that stock workflow -- which most of my clients use, including community newspapers -- editors write everything in the single frame, and yes, the designers then cut and paste as necessary.

A somewhat awkward but doable workaround is that the editors could write the headline on page 1 of the INCX file and then enter a Frame Break from the Type > Insert Break Character menu. InCopy would automatically generate a second page (to create a threaded frame) and put their cursor there. The editors would write the body copy in that frame, or however you want to work it.

Then the designers would have a page set up in ID with a small frame for the headline that's threaded to a multicolumned frame for the body. They'd place the INCX file into the first frame, and it would automatically flow into the 2 frames correctly (assuming the headline fits inside the headline frame, if not, they edit it/format it to fit).

One of the main benefits of the IC/ID workflow is that the editors can see and edit their text within the context of the design, the layout, instead of marking up paper proofs for the designers to enter. Or, it allows the designers to create pages in ID (with empty text frames for heads, body, sidebars, cutlines etc.) for the editors to fill in with their text from the start.

It sounds like you're not looking for this. You're mainly interested in giving the editors a head start in formatting and fitting text without the layout at all. This is a lesser feature of the stock IC/ID workflow. It is most valuable when it's replacing Word as the start of the process. But it sounds like it's no match for what you're able to do with NewsEdit. ;-(

I've had other clients ask me how to create multi-framed templates for the editors to use. I wrote a long article about in my InCopyFlow e-zine, which you can read as a post on my InCopySecrets.com blog here:
 <http://incopysecrets.com/working-with-layout-templates.php>

Maybe that'll help show you what's possible?

AM

> Any editorial changes are made on the page by the designer

Sort of defeats the whole purpose, IMO.

There are any number of ways to handle this in a small workgroup 
environment. You can start off with Word and place that. The designer 
does all the formatting and then exports the InCopy content.

Depending upon the setup that can be in an assignment or just let them 
open the InDesign file.

Or...you can start out with InCopy using pretermined styles and sizes 
and then place the InCopy stories in the InDesign layout. This has its 
benefits since you're going to have a far better idea of word count, 
column inches, etc.

You sort of lost me as far as the anchored frames go. I don't see why 
that's even relevant but I may be missing something here.

Bob

Thanks for all the info Anne-Marie. I now have a better understanding of how InCopy works. The information on layout shells was quite interesting, but I don't think it would work for us.

Hopefully in some future update, you'll be able to have 2 text frames in an InCopy document or at least multi columns. Until then our reporters will have to type everything in 1 frame and the designers will separate the headline from the story in InDesign. I miss NewsEdit already!

Does anybody out there know of a program similar to NewsEdit that's compatible with InDesign CS3 or CS4????

Barb

Anne-Marie

Would just like your opinion on something.

Based on what I've stated earlier, is InCopy maybe more than we need? I'm getting the feeling that we're buying a luxury cruiser to cross the river when a rowboat would do the job just fine.

Barb

It's not more than you need...it just doesn't seem to fit with your 
workflow...like I said earlier, I think you're working backwards.

InCopy should be used by the editors/writers to edit content as well as 
create it.

Bob

Barbara:

I'm not sure how big your newsroom is ...  our Smart Connection Pro or
Enterprise solution can accomplish what you are interested in doing
with your workflow. Enterprise is a database workflow solutions
(similar to Baseview's IQue system). SC Pro enables your newsroom to
work in folder based approach (similar to Baseview's NewsEditPro).

NewsEditPro, by default, has two text frames. One for the headline and
another for the body of the story.

With our Enterprise or Smart Connection Pro solutions you can create
InCopy templates which have elements for headline, body and other
items (subhead, byline, web headline, etc.). Writers and editors can
begin stories with these elements already a part of the package.

You can download a trial version of Smart Connection Pro at:

http://woodwing.com/en/Download_Software

Contact us if you would like to check out our Enterprise solution.

Our support team is familiar with Baseview's NewsEditPro solution. We
can help you compare our approach with NewsEditPro.

Feel free to contact me or our support department with any questions:

Shawn Duffy
WoodWing USA
Tel: 313 962 0542
http://www.woodwing.com

Hmmm, perhaps skipping the whole incx workflow and get to working in the document directly?

 <http://www.ctrl-ps.com/products/ctrlcrosstalk>

A shortcut to perhaps the prolem is to go "around" the live-edit workflow and just focus on the .indd file.

Take a look att this plug-in, <http://www.ctrl-ps.com/products/ctrlcrosstalk>