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Suddha,

Assuming that it is indeed the precise same font that is being called up as "Helvetica" (same foundry (Adobe, Linotype, Bitstream, etc.), same font technology (OpenType, Type 1, TrueType), each character of the font will display identically, regardless of software used. The difference will be that, for example, Microsoft Word (an office tool, not a design or typographer tool), or Notepad does not display spacing the same way as InDesign will. This is a limitation of those applications. Adobe Reader accurately displays the information that it "reads". If the fonts in a specific document are embedded (that is, not fonts used by the host computer), then the file will be an exact typographic representation of the original document -- even if those fonts do not exist on that computer.

That said, for critical output, use PDFs with fonts embedded. And for the most accurate creation and display, prepare your files using design tools: InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, QuarkXPress, and NOT Word, Notepad or Wordpad. Designers need to be restrained with guns put to their heads to use any of the latter three for typography.

Also, use quality fonts from respected foundries, OpenType, Type 1, or TrueType.

Neil

Thanks a lot for your reply.
I was waiting for an accurate response like yours.

You are absolutely correct in saying that we should never use office tools for creative publications. I am planning to use Indesign (never delved deep because of the learning curve) more often now.

Can you point me to some good tutorials on Indesign?

Thanks again,
Suddha

You can start by visiting www.indesignsecrets.com and watching Michael 
Murphy's video podcasts.

The InDesign forums are a great place to get specific questions answered.

Bob

Thanks Bob for the URLs.

Suddha,

Once you get momentum going up the learning curve, you'll wonder how you ever did this kind of stuff without apps like InDesign!

Neil

>That said, for critical output, use PDFs with fonts embedded. And for the most accurate creation and display, prepare your files using design tools: InDesign, Illustrator, Photoshop, QuarkXPress, and NOT Word, Notepad or Wordpad. Designers need to be restrained with guns put to their heads to use any of the latter three for typography.

I think you would agree, Neil, that while the typography from Word
will be poor, the quality of the individual letters on the page should
be absolutely identical?


Aandi Inston

Aandi,

Absolutely. Unless one chooses, say, faux bold or faux italics, or some other typographic abomination.

We only use MS Office when necessary for business correspondence, invoicing, etc. But anything that requires typography goes through our design apps.

Neil

Aren't there some applications that do their own font rendering?

Herb,

IIRC, there may be different engines that describe the letterforms. And hinting may be ignored for screen display in some apps. But the fonts' bezier curves should be rendered identically in print output within the range of sizes that the application supports.

Neil

But most printers, for example, don't "DO" bezier curves. Software in 
the computer does the rendering as an analysis of the equations and a 
conversion to a set of points. Different rendering engines can come up 
with different placement for the ink.  Or, in some environments, the 
rendering might be done by the printer rather than software in the 
computer - leading to differences.

Most embroidery programs,for example, work only with Truetype fonts, 
because they do their own conversion of the outlines to stitch positions.

Herb,

I understand, of course, that the curves need to be translated by the printer and there could be differences on that end. But, assuming we're using different apps, outputting through the same printer, same hardware and setup...

Neil

Neil said ..
"I understand, of course, that the curves need to be translated by the 
printer .."

That's the part I'm disagreeing with. Only if the font itself is 
resident on or downloaded to the printer does that happen. In all 
other cases, the translation from curves and metrics and fills to xy 
coordinates is done on the computer side.

The OP's question, and mine, is whether or not some applications 
bypass the operating system's xy rendering engine and do their own.

  - H

"Only if the font itself is resident on or downloaded to the printer does that happen."

Well, that's true as far as it goes, but for PostScript devices (at least) the font is *always* either resident or downloaded, and the translation from curves and metrics and fills to xy coordinates is done by the PostScript device itself.

If it's a PS device, and the font is not resident or downloaded, you're not going to get the right font. Excepting the case where the font is converted to outlines by manual command of the user, but then you don't have a font any more, just graphics.

I'm under the impression this is true for PCL devices as well.

For inkjets and other devices that don't have their own RIP, of course that translation must be done by the computer upstream of the printer.

Cheers,

T

Thanks, Thomas.

But the question requiring some clarification is, how much influence do apps (those capable of accepting keyboarded text) have over the exact shapes of the glyphs? I think we can leave faux shape modifications, kerning and spacing out of the equation.

Neil

In general, apps have zero effect on the rendering/shapes of the glyphs in print.

There are exceptions, of course - if the app converts the glyphs to bitmaps up front (such as many image editing programs) or to some internal font outline format (such as Flash).

Regards,

T

Thanks, again!

Neil