🚀 go-pugleaf

Nice site , but what doe it have to do with Acrobat unless the Fill in blanks were created through Acrobat.

It doesn't have anything to do with Acrobat, nor did I ever say that it did...???

Stan,

I think our past "meetings" on other Websites have been constructive. As you know, I don't simply offer polite "atta boy" pats on the back, which in the end, benefit no one.

So, I spent a few minutes reviewing your new site, as if I were a real site visitor. Initial impression is positive. Nice start! And the links I tried loaded fast and properly. I think you have laid a solid foundation for the comments that follow.

So, in no particular order...

1. The bio link popups appear in overwhelmingly large windows -- they should be a bit smaller;
2. The default text font size is very readable, but is also a tad large;
3. The repeating graphic at the head of each page is very nice, but it is also possibly a bit large, taking up a fair amount of screen real estate, particularly after the home page (and I'm using a 23" display). I feel that new page header graphics should be created, specific to the content of its page while still relating to the nice home page graphic;
4. I really miss more picture content; particularly meaningful on the "Early Days in Menlo Park" page; and also to enhance the points being made at "Our Mission" and "Events". Actually, I'd like to see some appropriate graphics on every page (but not knee-jerk stock photo space fillers);
5. How about captions for the photos at "About SMP"? Also, the the photos don't have to be in such a rigid vertical layout. You have a nice informality in the page header graphics.
6. How about adding a physical address, phone, etc.?
7. The gray subheads are too close to black. I'd try something closer to 50%. And the frame around the "Menlo Park History" button is not the same appearance as the others;
8. You are using at least four different sans serif fonts on a typical page; maybe that should be simplified;
9; But the real biggie is that I saw no pictures of Menlo Park or its environment, wildlife, structures, etc.!

I hope this helps. I'm sure some of the other folks here will be able to add their thoughts.

Neil

Neil,

It's late and I skimmed those, but I agree on many. The HIstory page needs photos, I have asked for those. ON the other stuff, I'll check, yes font may be a tad large. I'm going to go through each number carefully and review. Your comments are GREATLY appreciated, and if the site is at a good start it is only because you have taught me well over the years.

anyway, like i said, it's late, wanted to respond, but I haven't read in detail your post, but I will in the morning and I appreciate the comments. so far they seem like great suggestions

Stan

HI Stan, looking good here too.

Text size - exactly right for me, maybe my eyes are a bit older than Neil's!

I definitely agree about the header being much too big on the internal pages, you need a related but smaller version.

Personally I don't like the blue links - it looks a bit 'generic', MS Word-ish, as if you didn't know how to customise link colours.

On internal pages, I don't see a home page link - I like to be able to go back to the beginning.

On a couple of pages you have a problem with the right hand column extending below the green footer, it looks very odd. Footers are a pig, I've been round and round this problem on different sites.

I end up either having the footer only extend across the middle section, where it gets pushed down by the content, or just making sure there is enough text in the middle column so nothing extends below.

'About' and 'Events' are showing this problem.

@pj - you're lost, this is the web design forum, not Acrobat.

And yes, more photos please :)

Stan,

Two basic things:

One of the fist things should be putting Menlo Park on the map for those with no prior knowledge. Wikipedia has three Menlo Park entries, one in California, one in New Jersey, and on in Pretoria, South Africa.

Whenever there is imagery to the right, the left hand side drops below it in IE6.

Stan,

Thanks for the kind words. I should've pointed out, my observations were via Safari v3.2.1. Also, I agree with adding the map and selecting another links color.

===

Kath,

I'm not gonna get into a "my eyes are older than your eyes" argument! <lol>

Neil

The best Browser to create for is FireFox. If it will show correctly it in FireFox, it will show up correct in any Browser. Because FireFox is written to 95% or better W3C Compliance in use of the various types of Web code.

Supposedly IE8 will finally be dragged into this century and comply with W3C standards.

      If it will show correctly it in FireFox, it will show up correct in any
      Browser.




Not quite.

There are so many differences between IE6, IE7 and IE8 that we need to be confirming work in all browsers.

Neil
1. Good to know, will reduce font a bit. Last we met, my font size was too small, I took that to heart I guess too much and now have gone too big! but I am using ems, so the user will be able to resize text in the browser
2. will size down a smidge
3. Yes, the overhead graphic is a tad large, I can probably reduce.
    - I like your suggestion of graphics changing on other pages, let's see if it's in the budget and if I have time
    - I struggled with trying to 'break out of the box' on this one. That's probably why the header graphic is so large. I see so many sites with just a header box, I know that's pretty much the standard and it's not bad, but I wanted to push the envelope if I could. I still don't think I did enough to make an organic header, but it's a start.
   - As you probably know from my stuff in the past, I tend to over think things. So instead of just making a web page, I always am trying to do something 'no one has done before'. Often that can lead to trouble I've found, and cause the design to fail, such as the first few iterations of the dahlin group site.
4. I agree, client is getting more pics. He should be getting actual old timey menlo park photos. will work on the other part of this suggestion, ie, not stock photos
5. Interesting, what did you have in mind? flowing text around the images? or angling them in place???
6. yes
7. ok, and I'll get back to the button frames at the end
8. good point
9. also good point, client has not been good about providing content. we really need that, I might google it.

Great comments Neil,

Ok, the big question. The buttons...
I originally had this idea to have angled buttons, kinda roughed up as you see on the site. Does everyone like that? I'm not sure if I like it or want to go to a clean nav button bar. What does everyone think? and if you like it, suggestions for improvement?

Pjones, I typically try to code for mozilla, while doing hacks for ie 6

Neil, regarding number 1 of your first post, the window is large??? I don't think I can control that unless I use javascript to resize the window, which I always felt was sort of violating... Not sure if that's what you mean about the window being too large. What do you suggest?

<sniff>What am I, chopped liver? </sniff> ;)

OMG Kath! Sorry, I didn't see your post!

ok

duly noted on text size, although I sized down just a pinch, probably won't even notice, but it might 'feel' better.

yes good, I will size the main header down and perhaps create an even smaller one for sub pages, good idea

really? what do you suggest? I left them blue only because it's a links page and I wanted it obvious. I had thought about removing the underlined links altogether and just having the title go to the page.

yeah, it's not there, I need to make one, thanks.

yes, I'm sure my code is funky, I've noticed that too, I'll either use a spacer gif to force it down, or actually fix the code (which I know i shouldn't do, but it's fast : ~)

here you go Kath

 <http://www.dahlingroup.com/menloparkdraftsite/mediapress.html>

is that better? any suggestions on the 'Read full article' links? are they okay at the end of the paragraph?

Forgiven :)

Stan,

I'm on deadline at the moment -- I'll comment back later.

Neil

      There are so many differences between IE6, IE7 and IE8 that we need to
      be confirming work in all browsers.




That's the reason you don't use a web Browser that's not W3C Standards Compliant. As long as as IE has been out it has never been remotely standards compliant. In fact IE up 6 and possibly 7 have a a self healing feature.

That means if say you create a Line of HTML code that doesn't have a particular opening or closing Tag IE will assume the tag and render the Page, which is wrong, wrong, wrong. That promotes writing sloppy code.

Write it to render right in FireFox, Then view it in IE. If it doesn't work, Then add necessary code for IE. However; most likely it will work as it should.

Supposedly IE 8 will be almost Completely W3C compliant.

Web browsers should all be written to render pages exactly the same. So that when you write pages; you write them once an it looks exactly the same in IE, FireFox, SeaMonkey, Omniweb, Opera, iCab

      <sniff>What am I, chopped liver? </sniff> ;)




So I am the leftover.

probably Filet minion ;-)

P,

Is that a new Adobe typeface?

Neil <g>

well I actually, I do have the OT version Of Minion-CN. ;-) I meant Fillet Mignon.

Jacob, no not at all. I saw your post and thought, that's a great idea. Sorry, I just didn't respond. Yesterday was a crazy day!

Stan,

First chance to respond.

The biography pop-up windows take up too much screen real estate. You can define a specific size.

Angled buttons? Doesn't bother me, although I'd probably be choosing a straight line of buttons. Maybe shaped like file folder tabs. But I'm not 100% sold one way or the other. Photos and captions at an angle? Again, maybe. But if you do, don't let 'em look like a kid's scrapbook or suffer in readability.

Thanks Neil, I try to avoid using javascript, but I guess I could use it to size the bio windows, and if someone has it turned off, then no biggie, the windows are large.

Good to know, I think too many of the angled buttons are the same. I think it would bother me less if I mixed it up a bit and did some more refinement.

Stan,

BTW, I see nothing wrong with having an automated "slide show" gallery of images, if that is the neatest way to integrate them into the pages.

Neil

would be a great idea.... but we don't seem to have any pictures...