Thread View: alt.agnosticism
35 messages
35 total messages
Started by Lee
Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:30
Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:30
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:30
34 lines
2791 bytes
2791 bytes
GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: admin
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:52
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:52
37 lines
3170 bytes
3170 bytes
Lee wrote: > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a �10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > > and your point is? as someone who knows nothing about accepting handed on "knowledge" in a rational critical way? we should be skeptical about all knowledge be it the formation of u shaped valleys (clue , maybe glaciation) grass is green (well in the light spectrum that arrives on this planet) and the square root of 9 is 3 etc.. skeptism about virgin birth and dead men walking is a no brainer... andrew
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:07
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:07
63 lines
3765 bytes
3765 bytes
"admin" <andrew.fox33@ntlworlld.com> wrote in message news:IPI1m.641$nc5.104@newsfe25.ams2... > Lee wrote: >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. >> >> >> >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. >> >> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >> >> Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. >> >> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >> >> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. >> >> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. >> >> >> >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >> >> >> >> > > > and your point is? as someone who knows nothing about accepting > handed on "knowledge" in a rational critical way? > > we should be skeptical about all knowledge be it the formation of u > shaped valleys (clue , maybe glaciation) grass is green (well in the > light spectrum that arrives on this planet) and the square root of 9 is > 3 etc.. > skeptism about virgin birth and dead men walking is a no brainer... > > > andrew My point is that it is nice to see someone organizing a place where kids can go and make their own decisions about how they view the world rather than being subjected to one of the major faiths or their subsidiary cults and living their lives as a lie.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Trance Gemini
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:01
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:01
37 lines
3089 bytes
3089 bytes
On Jun 28, 4:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece What a wonderful idea! It's times like this I wish I was a kid again. Maybe we should ask Dawkins to run adult retreats too :-)
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: admin
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:07
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:07
51 lines
3885 bytes
3885 bytes
Morph wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:52:07 +0100, admin <andrew.fox33@ntlworlld.com> > wrote: > >> Lee wrote: >>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. >>> >>> >>> >>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. >>> >>> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >>> >>> Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a �10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. >>> >>> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >>> >>> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. >>> >>> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> and your point is? as someone who knows nothing about accepting >> handed on "knowledge" in a rational critical way? >> >> we should be skeptical about all knowledge be it the formation of u >> shaped valleys (clue , maybe glaciation) grass is green (well in the >> light spectrum that arrives on this planet) and the square root of 9 is >> 3 etc.. >> skeptism about virgin birth and dead men walking is a no brainer... >> >> >> andrew > > I see...."- - - we should be sceptical about all knowledge - - -" > ? Including what you have to offer. Or is that another no-brainer? > > absolutely, always question! i hope you can tell the difference between the koran and the bible, apparently both were written down via contact with god and are his inerrant word, but they are not both right??? well maybe? andrew
Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BORN ath...
Author: fasgnadh
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:46
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:46
152 lines
6410 bytes
6410 bytes
Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest
So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that
Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow
the old Jesuit saying
> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life.
>
So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to
make up it's own mind.
> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers,
> where children will have lessons in evolution and
> sing along to John Lennon's Imagine.
I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to
inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE
your beliefs are true.
> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children
> aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based
> breaks run by the Scouts and church groups.
>
> Budding atheists
What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet
at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind?
And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet,
but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o
> will be given lessons to arm themselves
> in the ways of rational scepticism.
Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa
to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism,
they are being taught atheist beliefs!
"Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about
Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o
> There will be sessions
> in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along
> with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war.
Don't they get that at school?
> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who
> can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn.
Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line
and you will get a reward! pfffft
This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution
with a smiling face!
> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites,
> they will sit around the embers belting out
> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too".
>
When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your
beliefs are true!
> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed
> to "encourage children to think for themselves,
> sceptically and rationally".
That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs?
How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school?
All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth,
and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable
children.
Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!?
Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism!
God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself
in the direction of faith! 8^o
> All 24 places at the retreat, which runs
> from July 27-31, have been taken.
Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders..
poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters.
The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way
is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft!
But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need
to re-program them to become what they already should be!
Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D
> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such
> as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will
> be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy.
B^D Tilting at windmills...
Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot
cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES
of religious belief.
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece
>
>
>
>
--
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - weren't they born atheist?
Author: fasgnadh
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:13
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:13
82 lines
3973 bytes
3973 bytes
Trance Gemini wrote:
> On Jun 28, 4:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote:
>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life.
>>
>> children will have lessons in evolution
Don't they get that in school already?
In state schools, where I imagine atheist parents send their kids,
what religious teaching would they have been exposed to?
And if they didn't get it at home, from those atheist parents,
then all their education and training should have been
free of any religious indoctrination, and according to atheists,
if tehy were atheists as babies they should still be!
So why the need to have the kids fdra week to make sure they are
atheists for life!???
That isn't educating how to think, that is having a pre-determined
GOAL to make them into atheists.. INDOCTRINATION!
>> and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine.
But making children listen to Lennon is no different to making
them listen to Lenin!
>> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites,
>> they will sit around the embers belting out
>> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too".
So it's jiust substituting One Dogma for another!
Nothing to do with Thinking for themselves, they get no
more choice than if they were forced to sing Kumbaya.
If they were allowed to choose what they sang they
really would be autonomous and Free Thinkers, not atheist
puppets.
What are atheists afraid of if they let the kids choose what they
sang.. that they might sing Lily Allen?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZm1TstpjQ
> Maybe we should ask Dawkins to run adult retreats too :-)
Yes.. you atheists all need to be taught how to think for yourself,
by the same guru! B^D B^D
--
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BORN...
Author: admin
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:38
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:38
146 lines
6192 bytes
6192 bytes
fasgnadh wrote: > Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest > > So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that > Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow > the old Jesuit saying > >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try >> to give you an atheist for life. >> > > So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to > make up it's own mind. > > >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first >> summer retreat for non-believers, > > where children will have lessons in evolution and > > sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to > inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE > your beliefs are true. > > >> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for >> children > > aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >> >> Budding atheists > > What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet > at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? > > And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, > but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o > > > will be given lessons to arm themselves > > in the ways of rational scepticism. > > Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa > to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, > they are being taught atheist beliefs! > > "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about > Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o > >> There will be sessions > > in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along > > with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. > > Don't they get that at school? > >> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who > > can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line > and you will get a reward! pfffft > > This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution > with a smiling face! > > >> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, > > they will sit around the embers belting out > > "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >> > > When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your > beliefs are true! > >> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed > > to "encourage children to think for themselves, > > sceptically and rationally". > > That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs? > > How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school? > > All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth, > and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable > children. > > Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!? > > Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism! > > God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself > in the direction of faith! 8^o > > > All 24 places at the retreat, which runs > > from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders.. > poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters. > The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way > is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft! > > But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need > to re-program them to become what they already should be! > > Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D > >> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such > > as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will > > be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > B^D Tilting at windmills... > > Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot > cope with sophisticated mainstream faith any form of sophisticated person would be an athiest or possibly a pagan by definition, christianity is barking so god wants to come down to his people and do a little preaching etc... well he isnt going to fake a virgin birth is he..... yeah right..... christianity makes Hinduism and Bhuddism look sensible and that is a major feat!! andrew , only with CARICATURES > of religious belief. > > >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >> >> >> >> > >
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Uncle Vic
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:16
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 18:16
14 lines
1759 bytes
1759 bytes
One fine day in alt.atheism, "Lee" <me@localhost.com> wrote: > > Please turn off the HTML. Your text runs off the screen. Thanks. -- Uncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Separator of Church and Reason. Convicted by Earthquack. Looking forward to May 21, 2012 or is it 2011? Or is it sometime in December? These idiots can't even agree...
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:08
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:08
24 lines
2236 bytes
2236 bytes
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message news:Xns9C3873424B6EFvicman@216.196.97.131... > One fine day in alt.atheism, "Lee" <me@localhost.com> wrote: > >> >> > > Please turn off the HTML. Your text runs off the screen. Thanks. > > -- > Uncle Vic > aa Atheist #2011 > Separator of Church and Reason. > Convicted by Earthquack. > Looking forward to May 21, 2012 or is it 2011? Or is it sometime in > December? These idiots can't even agree... I am truly sorry about this, OE is set to plain text, 72 char / line but it is not doing as expected according to some replies. When I finish moving house and get my own PC rigged up again perhaps things will be better but until then my partner is kindly allowing me to share her machine for the next couple of weeks.
Aren't babies are BORN atheistic!? Or at least agnostic.
Author: Virgil
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:22
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:22
82 lines
4206 bytes
4206 bytes
In article <8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest > > So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that > Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs. If theists are allowed to brainwash their own children, does fasgnadh wish to force atheists and agnostics to subject their children to that same brainwashing. > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to > > give you an atheist for life. Even Jesuits need more than a week to indoctrinate kids, so fasgnadh's comments suggests that atheism is more natural. > > > > So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to > make up it's own mind. Lots of theist parents want to teach theism rather than allowing the child to make up its own mind. > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer > > retreat for non-believers, > > where children will have lessons in evolution and > > sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to > inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE > your beliefs are true. Theists have no evidence either, so they are at least as immoral as any atheist parents in trying to inculcate their faith in their children. Fasgnadh seems to want to judge atheists by a different standard, one established by and agreeable to theists even if repulsive to atheists. That strikes me an horribly unAmerican. > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children > > aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > Budding atheists > > What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet > at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? Then allow ALL children the same freedom to make up their minds without parental pressure. > > And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, > but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o That suggests that when children are alowed to make up their own minds, they will often chose atheism, or at least agnosticism, over any theist religion. Buddhism might do quite well though. > > > will be given lessons to arm themselves > > in the ways of rational scepticism. > > Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa > to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, > they are being taught atheist beliefs! And in parochial schools, they are not learning Rational scepticism, they are being taught theist beliefs! fasgnadh seems to thing some people (theists, or at least the right kind of theists) are "more equal" than others. Shades of "Animal Farm". -- Virgil
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkin
Author: Lee
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:37
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 19:37
143 lines
6671 bytes
6671 bytes
"fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest > > So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that > Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow > the old Jesuit saying > >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. >> > > So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to > make up it's own mind. > > >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, > > where children will have lessons in evolution and > > sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to > inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE > your beliefs are true. > > >> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children > > aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >> >> Budding atheists > > What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet > at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? > > And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, > but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o > > > will be given lessons to arm themselves > > in the ways of rational scepticism. > > Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa > to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, > they are being taught atheist beliefs! > > "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about > Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o > >> There will be sessions > > in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along > > with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. > > Don't they get that at school? > >> There will also be a £10 prize for the child who > > can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line > and you will get a reward! pfffft > > This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution > with a smiling face! > > >> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, > > they will sit around the embers belting out > > "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >> > > When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your > beliefs are true! > >> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed > > to "encourage children to think for themselves, > > sceptically and rationally". > > That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs? > > How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school? > > All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth, > and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable > children. > > Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!? > > Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism! > > God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself > in the direction of faith! 8^o > > > All 24 places at the retreat, which runs > > from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders.. > poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters. > The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way > is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft! > > But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need > to re-program them to become what they already should be! > > Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D > >> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such > > as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will > > be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > B^D Tilting at windmills... > > Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot > cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES > of religious belief. > > >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >> I think the general idea is to allow children to ask questions about faith or indeed lack of it rather than force it upon them. Holy men, witchdoctors, priests and shamans have been keen for millennia to get the young into their belief system before the child is old enough to question the absurdity of such things, this is usually accompanied by some ceremony involving magic spells, incantations, special water or snipping bits of the unfortunate child with the aim of reinforcing those beliefs. By the time the child reaches eight there never has been a time in his or her life when they did not believe in <insert any one of over 3000 gods and goddesses> These camps simply redress the balance a little in allowing the young individual to choose rather than the parents or holyman.
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BORN...
Author: Sla#s
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:25
22 lines
2473 bytes
2473 bytes
fasgnadh wrote: <SNIP> > So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God,<SNIP> I don't know who the hell you think you are preaching to but it is fairly obvious to anyone with a few brain cells left that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Time after time you keep at it, telling atheist what you think they believe and time after time you are told that is not what atheism is! You like telling people what to believe don't you? I say again for the nth time - All an atheist says is there is no evidence for any gods - the clue is in the word A-Theist - are you too thick to understand that simple word? If it was that there were no gods then they would be 'non- theists' or 'non-deists'. The amount of effort you christains on this news group put into lying make you a wonderful advert for atheism. Along with your leaders of course, all those lying, cheating, thieving, fornicating, homophobic hypocrites! No wonder atheism is growing faster than any religion. Slatts
Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only, have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BORN at...
Author: fasgnadh
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:31
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:31
707 lines
30518 bytes
30518 bytes
Lee wrote:
> "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids:
>>
>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest
>>
>> So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that
>> Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow
>> the old Jesuit saying
>>
>>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life.
>>>
>> So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to
>> make up it's own mind.
>>
>>
>>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers,
>>> where children will have lessons in evolution and
>>> sing along to John Lennon's Imagine.
>>
>> I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to
>> inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE
>> your beliefs are true.
>>
>>
>>> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children
>>> aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based
>>> breaks run by the Scouts and church groups.
>>>
>>> Budding atheists
>> What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet
>> at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind?
>>
>> And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet,
>> but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o
>>
>>> will be given lessons to arm themselves
>>> in the ways of rational scepticism.
>> Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa
>> to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism,
>> they are being taught atheist beliefs!
>>
>> "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about
>> Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o
>>
>>> There will be sessions
>>> in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along
>>> with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war.
>> Don't they get that at school?
>>
>>> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who
>>> can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn.
>>
>> Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line
>> and you will get a reward! pfffft
>>
>> This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution
>> with a smiling face!
>>
>>
>>> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites,
>>> they will sit around the embers belting out
>>> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too".
>>>
>> When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your
>> beliefs are true!
>>
>>> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed
>>> to "encourage children to think for themselves,
>>> sceptically and rationally".
>> That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs?
>>
>> How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school?
>>
>> All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth,
>> and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable
>> children.
>>
>> Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!?
>>
>> Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism!
>>
>> God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself
>> in the direction of faith! 8^o
>>
>>> All 24 places at the retreat, which runs
>>> from July 27-31, have been taken.
>> Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders..
>> poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters.
>> The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way
>> is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft!
>>
>> But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need
>> to re-program them to become what they already should be!
>>
>> Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D
>>
>>> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such
>>> as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will
>>> be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy.
>> B^D Tilting at windmills...
>>
>> Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot
>> cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES
>> of religious belief.
>>
>>
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece
>>>
>
>
> I think the general idea is to allow children to ask questions
> about faith or indeed lack of it rather than force it upon them.
And they are going to 'learn to think' by having ONLY one dogma
presented, the athesit one! B^D
Clearly you and Dawkins know fuck all about education in terms
of developing Thinking Skills. It Dawkinite terms, it's just
an exercise in transmitting memes! B^D
And they plan to do it as the Jesuits did.. how unoriginal!
" GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and
he will try to give you an atheist for life."
o how come the Rational thinkers are borrowing the tools
of the JESUITS? B^D Like the Atheist bus beliefs, they
are PLAGIARISED from the religious! B^D
It's a PROGRAM, and children in a program get PROGRAMMED, for life
apparently! 8^o
.. even the MUSIC is DIDACTIC.
It's PREACHING, not TEACHING! B^D
"Imagine a world without religion.. " But not the real ones, like the
USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots YEar Zero and Nth Korea@! 8^o
In other words, they are being sold a MYTH, not the historical REALITY
of atheism!!! The only NEGATIVE history they will get is the
Inquisition.. etc. pfffft!
THAT is propaganda, a staple of atheist regimes throughout history;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
> Holy men, witchdoctors, priests and shamans have been keen for
> millennia to get the young into their belief system
> before the child is old enough to question
Yes, and now atheists have joined them! That's my point!
Since Gutenberg and literacy, modern religious groups
are based on community and individualism, not 'getting the
child before it is old enough to question' So you atheists
are implementing BACKWARDNESS as the religions move forwards!
I don't care, at an intake of 24, compared to MILLIONS who
were forcibly indoctrinated in atheism in the atheist states
of the 20th century, atheist propaganda is clearly in decline..
I just want atheists to be honest about what it is you are doing!
Proselytising on buses and now among your own children.
Just like other ideologies do! B^p
How else can you expand your BELIEF system!?
# It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D
#
#
# "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
# of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart
# after being refused permission to put atheist
# advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009
#
# "atheism counts as a religion, though we say
# we're not one," Dr Perkins said."
> the absurdity of such things,
> this is usually accompanied by some ceremony involving
> magic spells, incantations, special water or
> snipping bits of the unfortunate child with
> the aim of reinforcing those beliefs.
Where do you live? North Korea? Sierra Leone? B^D
My kids go to secular State schools, they have been
made aware of the beliefs of atheists, agnostics, theists
a variety of religions and other ideologies, philosiphy, science
history.. they have never been INSTRUCTED in either a religion
or in atheism and i would certainly never send them on a camp for
partisan fanatics to do so.. Sounds like Boy Scouts or the priesthood!
The school and their family teaches them to think, not by enrolling them
in a PROGRAM run by one of the cults or another, Where they will be told
IMAGINE is an ORTHODOX song but "Oh Happy Day" isn't!!!!
but by allowing them intellectual freedom to investigate ALL of those
outputs, and discuss them critically, and decide for themselves!
> By the time the child reaches eight there never has been a time
> in his or her life when they did not believe in
> <insert any one of over 3000 gods and goddesses>
You are describing Christianity in MEDIEVAL times and Atheism last
century!
And look at the manifest FAILURE of forced atheist indoctrination,
of CHILDREN and ADULTS, in the USSR and Maoist China!!!
Despite DECADES in which whole generations were INDOCTRINATED
in atheism, they were amongst the LEAST THINKING SOCIETIES
ON THE PLANET!
Opressive, regimented, their atheism was MORE tyrannical and
death dealing than ANY religion in history..
60- 100,000,000 dead! The highest death toll per capita per year
of tyranny, than any other form of human organisation!
So don't try Guilt by association with me sonny Jim!
And don't try and conflate 'atheism' which is an impotent,
useless and innefectual sub-branch of Nihilism with
RATIONAL THOUGHT when most of the rational thinkers throughout
history have been religious!
Go off and program 24 little atheists.. just realise, it's been
tried, and failed, BEFORE, on a massive scale, for decades;
http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/RedGuardsLow.JPG
How is this any different if you replace Lenin with Lennon
> These camps simply redress the balance
In other words you counter religious dogma with atheist dogma!
Precisely
> a little in
> allowing the young individual to choose rather
> than the parents or holyman.
WTF are you crapping on about.. kids in state schools don't
even meet a 'holyman' Are you seriously trying to tell us that
the kids enroled aren't the children of atheists who want their
children to share their bveliefs, just like many religious families do,
but are kids from practising religious families who send their
kids to an atheist program for 'some balance redressing'!!?
Pull the other one! B^D
You just SELECT material, like Church schools do,
Tell me what an atheist camp teaches children that they do not
learn in school already;
Clear thinking, critical analysis, logic, the scientific method,
history, culture(including the worlds religions) economics,
mathematics, physics, evolution, the Big Bang ...?
All developed in societies based on, inspired and sustained by
spiritual systems.
Will you teach them the history of Atheist States, the
Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great
Leap Backward and the Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Year
Zero and North Koreas dismal atheist shithole.. ? or will
they have to get that sort of BALANCED viewpoint from the
same school system which tells them about the Crusades,
Inquisition, Witch Burnings, Borgia Popes, Holy Wars
and Paedophile Priests?
Most great scientists and thinkers in history had no trouble
reconciling faith and reason, you understand one not at all and the
other dimly;
---------
The Harmony of Science and Religion"
"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."
- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^
Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)
`Abdu'l-Bah�, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;
"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bah�, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bah�'� Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.
"Bah�'u'll�h has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha
---------
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall� be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God � the design argument of Paley � updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei
Ren� Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lema�tre proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizs�cker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizs�cker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only, have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BOR...
Author: Virgil
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:04
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 04:04
73 lines
4607 bytes
4607 bytes
In article <vIV1m.1585$ze1.1063@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > I think the general idea is to allow children to ask questions > > about faith or indeed lack of it rather than force it upon them. > > And they are going to 'learn to think' by having ONLY one dogma > presented, the athesit one! Which other dogmas do you recommend? > > Clearly you and Dawkins know fuck all about education in terms > of developing Thinking Skills. And what evidence do we have that fasgnadh knows any more than fuck all about education in termsof developing Thinking Skills. None. > It Dawkinite terms, it's just an exercise in transmitting memes! The agnostic "meme" is a better one to transmit than your fundie ones. > > It's a PROGRAM, and children in a program get PROGRAMMED, for life > apparently! That's what religions want. But atheists and agnostic prefer to have their children think. > > > "Imagine a world without religion.. A world with only such religions as Buddhism but without any personal gods would be quite nice. It is not religions themselves that are the problem, but the personal gods that some religions cannot learn to do without. A few atheists:Douglas Adams, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Woody Allen, Lance Armstrong, Darren Aronofsky, Isaac Asimov, Dave Barry, Ingmar Bergman, Lewis Black, Richard Branson, Berkeley Breathed, Warren Buffett, George Carlin, John Carmack, Adam Carolla, John Carpenter, Asia Carrera, Fidel Castro, Dick Cavett, Noam Chomsky, Billy Connolly, Francis Crick, David Cronenberg, David Cross, Alan Cumming, Rodney Dangerfield, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, David Deutsch, Ani DiFranco, Micky Dolenz, Harlan Ellison, Brian Eno, Richard Feynman, Harvey Fierstein, Larry Flynt, Dave Foley, Jodie Foster, Janeane Garofalo, Bill Gates, Bob Geldof, Ricky Gervais, Ira Glass, James Gleick, Robert Heinlein, Nat Hentoff, Katharine Hepburn, Christopher Hitchens, Jamie Hyneman, Eddie Izzard, Penn Jillette, Billy Joel, Angelina Jolie, Wendy Kaminer, Diane Keaton, Ken Keeler, Neil Kinnock, Michael Kinsley, Richard Leakey, Bruce Lee, Tom Lehrer, Tom Leykis, James Lipton, H.P. Lovecraft, John Malkovich, Barry Manilow, Todd McFarlane, Sir Ian McKellen, Arthur Miller, Frank Miller, Marvin Minsky, Julianne Moore, Desmond Morris, Randy Newman, Mike Nichols, Jack Nicholson, Gary Numan, Bob Odenkirk, Patton Oswalt, Camille Paglia, Steven Pinker, Paula Poundstone, Terry Pratchett, James Randi, Ron Reagan Jr., Keanu Reeves, Rick Reynolds, Gene Roddenberry, Joe Rogan, Henry Rollins, Andy Rooney, Salman Rushdie, Bob Simon, Steven Soderbergh, Annika Sorenstam, George Soros, Richard Stallman, Bruce Sterling, Howard Stern, J. Michael Straczynski, Julia Sweeney, Matthew Sweet, Teller, Studs Terkel, Tom Tomorrow, Linus Torvalds, Eddie Vedder, Paul Verhoeven, Gore Vidal, Kurt Vonnegut Jr., Sarah Vowell, James Watson, Steven Weinberg, Joss Whedon, Ted Williams, Steve Wozniak, HUNDREDS MORE... edit -- Virgil
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only, have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BOR...
Author: Lee
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:13
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:13
723 lines
31786 bytes
31786 bytes
"fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:vIV1m.1585$ze1.1063@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > Lee wrote: >> "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message >> news:8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au... >>> Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: >>> >>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest >>> >>> So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that >>> Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow >>> the old Jesuit saying >>> >>>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try >>>> to give you an atheist for life. >>>> >>> So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to >>> make up it's own mind. >>> >>> >>>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first >>>> summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in >>>> evolution and >>>> sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. >>> >>> I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to >>> inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE >>> your beliefs are true. >>> >>> >>>> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for >>>> children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based >>>> breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >>>> >>>> Budding atheists >>> What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet >>> at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? >>> >>> And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, >>> but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o >>> >>>> will be given lessons to arm themselves >>>> in the ways of rational scepticism. >>> Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa >>> to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, >>> they are being taught atheist beliefs! >>> >>> "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about >>> Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o >>> >>>> There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology >>>> along >>>> with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. >>> Don't they get that at school? >>> >>>> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who can disprove the >>>> existence of the mythical unicorn. >>> >>> Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line >>> and you will get a reward! pfffft >>> >>> This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution >>> with a smiling face! >>> >>> >>>> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit >>>> around the embers belting out >>>> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >>>> >>> When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your >>> beliefs are true! >>> >>>> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to >>>> "encourage children to think for themselves, >>>> sceptically and rationally". >>> That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs? >>> >>> How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school? >>> >>> All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth, >>> and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable >>> children. >>> >>> Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!? >>> >>> Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism! >>> >>> God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself >>> in the direction of faith! 8^o >>> >>>> All 24 places at the retreat, which runs >>>> from July 27-31, have been taken. >>> Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders.. >>> poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters. >>> The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way >>> is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft! >>> >>> But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need >>> to re-program them to become what they already should be! >>> >>> Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D >>> >>>> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as >>>> canoeing and swimming but the mornings will >>>> be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. >>> B^D Tilting at windmills... >>> >>> Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot >>> cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES >>> of religious belief. >>> >>> >>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >>>> >> >> >> I think the general idea is to allow children to ask questions about >> faith or indeed lack of it rather than force it upon them. > > And they are going to 'learn to think' by having ONLY one dogma presented, > the athesit one! B^D > > Clearly you and Dawkins know fuck all about education in terms > of developing Thinking Skills. It Dawkinite terms, it's just > an exercise in transmitting memes! B^D > > And they plan to do it as the Jesuits did.. how unoriginal! > > " GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and > he will try to give you an atheist for life." > > o how come the Rational thinkers are borrowing the tools > of the JESUITS? B^D Like the Atheist bus beliefs, they > are PLAGIARISED from the religious! B^D > > It's a PROGRAM, and children in a program get PROGRAMMED, for life > apparently! 8^o > > .. even the MUSIC is DIDACTIC. > > It's PREACHING, not TEACHING! B^D > > > "Imagine a world without religion.. " But not the real ones, like the > USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots YEar Zero and Nth Korea@! 8^o > > In other words, they are being sold a MYTH, not the historical REALITY > of atheism!!! The only NEGATIVE history they will get is the > Inquisition.. etc. pfffft! > > THAT is propaganda, a staple of atheist regimes throughout history; > > "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism." > -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest > > > "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism." > - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest > > > "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?" > - Lenin > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest > > http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg > > >> Holy men, witchdoctors, priests and shamans have been keen for millennia >> to get the young into their belief system > > before the child is old enough to question > > Yes, and now atheists have joined them! That's my point! > > Since Gutenberg and literacy, modern religious groups > are based on community and individualism, not 'getting the > child before it is old enough to question' So you atheists > are implementing BACKWARDNESS as the religions move forwards! > > I don't care, at an intake of 24, compared to MILLIONS who > were forcibly indoctrinated in atheism in the atheist states > of the 20th century, atheist propaganda is clearly in decline.. > > I just want atheists to be honest about what it is you are doing! > > Proselytising on buses and now among your own children. > > Just like other ideologies do! B^p > > How else can you expand your BELIEF system!? > > # It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D > # > # > # "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints > # of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart > # after being refused permission to put atheist > # advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009 > # > # "atheism counts as a religion, though we say > # we're not one," Dr Perkins said." > > > > the absurdity of such things, >> this is usually accompanied by some ceremony involving magic spells, >> incantations, special water or > > snipping bits of the unfortunate child with > > the aim of reinforcing those beliefs. > > Where do you live? North Korea? Sierra Leone? B^D > > My kids go to secular State schools, they have been > made aware of the beliefs of atheists, agnostics, theists > a variety of religions and other ideologies, philosiphy, science > history.. they have never been INSTRUCTED in either a religion > or in atheism and i would certainly never send them on a camp for > partisan fanatics to do so.. Sounds like Boy Scouts or the priesthood! > > The school and their family teaches them to think, not by enrolling them > in a PROGRAM run by one of the cults or another, Where they will be told > IMAGINE is an ORTHODOX song but "Oh Happy Day" isn't!!!! > but by allowing them intellectual freedom to investigate ALL of those > outputs, and discuss them critically, and decide for themselves! > > > > >> By the time the child reaches eight there never has been a time in his or >> her life when they did not believe in > > <insert any one of over 3000 gods and goddesses> > > You are describing Christianity in MEDIEVAL times and Atheism last > century! > > And look at the manifest FAILURE of forced atheist indoctrination, > of CHILDREN and ADULTS, in the USSR and Maoist China!!! > > Despite DECADES in which whole generations were INDOCTRINATED > in atheism, they were amongst the LEAST THINKING SOCIETIES > ON THE PLANET! > > Opressive, regimented, their atheism was MORE tyrannical and > death dealing than ANY religion in history.. > > 60- 100,000,000 dead! The highest death toll per capita per year > of tyranny, than any other form of human organisation! > > So don't try Guilt by association with me sonny Jim! > > And don't try and conflate 'atheism' which is an impotent, > useless and innefectual sub-branch of Nihilism with > RATIONAL THOUGHT when most of the rational thinkers throughout > history have been religious! > > Go off and program 24 little atheists.. just realise, it's been > tried, and failed, BEFORE, on a massive scale, for decades; > > http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/RedGuardsLow.JPG > > How is this any different if you replace Lenin with Lennon > >> These camps simply redress the balance > > In other words you counter religious dogma with atheist dogma! > > Precisely > > > a little in > > allowing the young individual to choose rather > > than the parents or holyman. > > WTF are you crapping on about.. kids in state schools don't > even meet a 'holyman' Are you seriously trying to tell us that > the kids enroled aren't the children of atheists who want their > children to share their bveliefs, just like many religious families do, > but are kids from practising religious families who send their > kids to an atheist program for 'some balance redressing'!!? > > Pull the other one! B^D > > You just SELECT material, like Church schools do, > > Tell me what an atheist camp teaches children that they do not > learn in school already; > > Clear thinking, critical analysis, logic, the scientific method, > history, culture(including the worlds religions) economics, > mathematics, physics, evolution, the Big Bang ...? > > All developed in societies based on, inspired and sustained by > spiritual systems. > > Will you teach them the history of Atheist States, the > Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great > Leap Backward and the Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Year > Zero and North Koreas dismal atheist shithole.. ? or will > they have to get that sort of BALANCED viewpoint from the > same school system which tells them about the Crusades, > Inquisition, Witch Burnings, Borgia Popes, Holy Wars > and Paedophile Priests? > > > Most great scientists and thinkers in history had no trouble > reconciling faith and reason, you understand one not at all and the other > dimly; > > > --------- > > The Harmony of Science and Religion" > > "Science without religion is lame, > religion without science is blind." > > - Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: > a Symposium", 1941 > ^^^^^ > > Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-) > > `Abdu'l-Bah�, in 1912, stated that religion without science > is mere superstition and that science without religion is > crude materialism; > > "Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence > can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s > not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with > the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of > superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone > he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of > materialism." > 'Abdu'l-Bah�, Paris Talks 1912 > ^^^^ > (London: Bah�'� Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46. > > "Bah�'u'll�h has declared that religion must be in > accord with science and reason. If it does not > correspond with scientific principles and the > processes of reason, it is superstition. > For God has endowed us with faculties by which > we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate > reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and > science, faith is impossible; and when faith and > confidence in the divine religion are not manifest > in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment. > - Abdul Baha > > > --------- > > I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us > with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use > and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by > them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical > matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or > necessary demonstrations. > > - Galileo Galilei 1615. > > ..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with > the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, > however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion > is lame, religion without science is blind. > > - Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954 > > The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we > are aware of it > > - Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher > > The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned > in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven > > - Galileo Galilei 1564-1642 > > I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world > > - Louis Pasteur 1822-95 > > As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner > by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things. > > - Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727 > > The scientific picture of the real world around me is very > deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how > an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is > a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to > which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God. > > - Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics > "My view of the World" 1918 > > There can never be any real opposition between religion and science. > Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the > religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if > all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance > and harmony. > > - Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics > "Where is Science Going" 1918 > > "Something unknown is doing we don't know what" > -Sir Arthur Eddington > > Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can > soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not > possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the > wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of > superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone > he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of > materialism. > > - 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911 > > Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of > the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as > well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces > worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the > facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost > beyond question." (2) > > George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in > the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the > complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use > the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological > status of the word." (3) > > Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it > quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be > some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the > explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something > instead of nothing." (6) > > John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards, > a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the > Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could > never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances > indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7) > > George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the > thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, > Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without > intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence > of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially > crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8) > > Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or > Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present > state of scientific theory." (9) > > Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique > event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very > delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to > permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say > 'supernatural') plan." (10) > > Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe > has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11) > > Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty > of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very > tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am > sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12) > > Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by > our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the > divine." (13) > > Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has > lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad > dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to > conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he > is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for > centuries." (14) > > Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall� be able to > take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and > the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the > ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of > God." (15) > > Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my > career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced > atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be > writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo- > Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are > straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand > them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable > logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since > has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The > Physics Of Christianity. > > Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is > described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created > it."(17) > > Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the > existence of God � the design argument of Paley � updated and > refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie > evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that > requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... > Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the > teleological or design argument." (18) > > Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe, > in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but > our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19) > > Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no > question but that a God will always be needed." (20) > > Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe, > however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial > conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21) > > Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 > Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the > marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. > The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God > in the universe and in my own life." (22) > > Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and > director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the > University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes > in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to > myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little > corner of God's plan." (23) > > > > Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to > understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a > superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to > comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24) > > Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in > Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I > can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100 > billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed > and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would > contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that > the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out > of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to > that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may > extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be > entirely unique." (25) > > > "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a > little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the > ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that > someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It > does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the > child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a > mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly > suspects." - Albert Einstein > > "The statistical probability that organic structures and the most > precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be > generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) > Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry > I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28 > > "The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a > knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, > and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off > even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a > chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems > unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived -- > you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies > (noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide > University) > > > Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this > ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism; > > Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based on > experimentation and inductive reasoning. > > Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world > view. > > William Turner the "father of English botany" > > John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, > Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. > > Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids > was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous > scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based > on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous > astronomical observations, > > Galileo Galilei > > Ren� Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in the > Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system used in > plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important work on > invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy partially > concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas with the > dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal. > > Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem > (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology). > > Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology > > Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of science > could improve glorification of God. > > John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis, > introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped > develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product. > > > Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating > machine > > Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and > mathematicians in history. > > Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society > > Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian. > > Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology. > > Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist, > > Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician > > Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics > Michael Faraday > > Charles Babbage > > Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics" > > Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany. > > Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist and > microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax, chicken > cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the development of the > first vaccines. > > > Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal > Medal, > > Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials > > Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry > > John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes, Fleming > valve. the Hughes Medal. > > Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics > > Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne > model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal > Astronomical Society, > > Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics. > > Georges Lema�tre proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest > > Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science > > von Weizs�cker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizs�cker formula. > > Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The > Convergence of Science and Religion. > > Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis > Thomas Prize. > > John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society. > > Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and > Noncommutative geometry. > > Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize > > Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research > Institute. > > John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic > principle. > > Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of Rebuilding > the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century. > > Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism. > > Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for > evolutionary dynamics. > > > And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists After 10 minutes attempting to make sense of all this the only conclusion I can make is that either English is not your first language or you are trying to prove a point by squeezing the contents of most of the Internet onto one post.
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only, have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BOR...
Author: Don H
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:05
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:05
773 lines
35013 bytes
35013 bytes
"Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message news:4a48fb39$0$24002$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk... > > "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message > news:vIV1m.1585$ze1.1063@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > > Lee wrote: > >> "fasgnadh" <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message > >> news:8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > >>> Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: > >>> > >>> http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest > >>> > >>> So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that > >>> Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow > >>> the old Jesuit saying > >>> > >>>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try > >>>> to give you an atheist for life. > >>>> > >>> So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to > >>> make up it's own mind. > >>> > >>> > >>>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > >>>> summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > >>>> evolution and > >>>> sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > >>> > >>> I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to > >>> inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE > >>> your beliefs are true. > >>> > >>> > >>>> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > >>>> children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > >>>> breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > >>>> > >>>> Budding atheists > >>> What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet > >>> at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? > >>> > >>> And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, > >>> but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o > >>> > >>>> will be given lessons to arm themselves > >>>> in the ways of rational scepticism. > >>> Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa > >>> to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, > >>> they are being taught atheist beliefs! > >>> > >>> "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about > >>> Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o > >>> > >>>> There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology > >>>> along > >>>> with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. > >>> Don't they get that at school? > >>> > >>>> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who can disprove the > >>>> existence of the mythical unicorn. > >>> > >>> Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line > >>> and you will get a reward! pfffft > >>> > >>> This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution > >>> with a smiling face! > >>> > >>> > >>>> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit > >>>> around the embers belting out > >>>> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > >>>> > >>> When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your > >>> beliefs are true! > >>> > >>>> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to > >>>> "encourage children to think for themselves, > >>>> sceptically and rationally". > >>> That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs? > >>> > >>> How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school? > >>> > >>> All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth, > >>> and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable > >>> children. > >>> > >>> Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!? > >>> > >>> Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism! > >>> > >>> God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself > >>> in the direction of faith! 8^o > >>> > >>>> All 24 places at the retreat, which runs > >>>> from July 27-31, have been taken. > >>> Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders.. > >>> poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters. > >>> The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way > >>> is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft! > >>> > >>> But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need > >>> to re-program them to become what they already should be! > >>> > >>> Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D > >>> > >>>> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as > >>>> canoeing and swimming but the mornings will > >>>> be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > >>> B^D Tilting at windmills... > >>> > >>> Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot > >>> cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES > >>> of religious belief. > >>> > >>> > >>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > >>>> > >> > >> > >> I think the general idea is to allow children to ask questions about > >> faith or indeed lack of it rather than force it upon them. > > > > And they are going to 'learn to think' by having ONLY one dogma presented, > > the athesit one! B^D > > > > Clearly you and Dawkins know fuck all about education in terms > > of developing Thinking Skills. It Dawkinite terms, it's just > > an exercise in transmitting memes! B^D > > > > And they plan to do it as the Jesuits did.. how unoriginal! > > > > " GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and > > he will try to give you an atheist for life." > > > > o how come the Rational thinkers are borrowing the tools > > of the JESUITS? B^D Like the Atheist bus beliefs, they > > are PLAGIARISED from the religious! B^D > > > > It's a PROGRAM, and children in a program get PROGRAMMED, for life > > apparently! 8^o > > > > .. even the MUSIC is DIDACTIC. > > > > It's PREACHING, not TEACHING! B^D > > > > > > "Imagine a world without religion.. " But not the real ones, like the > > USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots YEar Zero and Nth Korea@! 8^o > > > > In other words, they are being sold a MYTH, not the historical REALITY > > of atheism!!! The only NEGATIVE history they will get is the > > Inquisition.. etc. pfffft! > > > > THAT is propaganda, a staple of atheist regimes throughout history; > > > > "Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism." > > -Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest > > > > > > "Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism." > > - Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin) > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest > > > > > > "How can you make a revolution without firing squads?" > > - Lenin > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest > > > > http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg > > > > > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg > > > > > >> Holy men, witchdoctors, priests and shamans have been keen for millennia > >> to get the young into their belief system > > > before the child is old enough to question > > > > Yes, and now atheists have joined them! That's my point! > > > > Since Gutenberg and literacy, modern religious groups > > are based on community and individualism, not 'getting the > > child before it is old enough to question' So you atheists > > are implementing BACKWARDNESS as the religions move forwards! > > > > I don't care, at an intake of 24, compared to MILLIONS who > > were forcibly indoctrinated in atheism in the atheist states > > of the 20th century, atheist propaganda is clearly in decline.. > > > > I just want atheists to be honest about what it is you are doing! > > > > Proselytising on buses and now among your own children. > > > > Just like other ideologies do! B^p > > > > How else can you expand your BELIEF system!? > > > > # It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D > > # > > # > > # "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints > > # of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart > > # after being refused permission to put atheist > > # advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009 > > # > > # "atheism counts as a religion, though we say > > # we're not one," Dr Perkins said." > > > > > > > the absurdity of such things, > >> this is usually accompanied by some ceremony involving magic spells, > >> incantations, special water or > > > snipping bits of the unfortunate child with > > > the aim of reinforcing those beliefs. > > > > Where do you live? North Korea? Sierra Leone? B^D > > > > My kids go to secular State schools, they have been > > made aware of the beliefs of atheists, agnostics, theists > > a variety of religions and other ideologies, philosiphy, science > > history.. they have never been INSTRUCTED in either a religion > > or in atheism and i would certainly never send them on a camp for > > partisan fanatics to do so.. Sounds like Boy Scouts or the priesthood! > > > > The school and their family teaches them to think, not by enrolling them > > in a PROGRAM run by one of the cults or another, Where they will be told > > IMAGINE is an ORTHODOX song but "Oh Happy Day" isn't!!!! > > but by allowing them intellectual freedom to investigate ALL of those > > outputs, and discuss them critically, and decide for themselves! > > > > > > > > > >> By the time the child reaches eight there never has been a time in his or > >> her life when they did not believe in > > > <insert any one of over 3000 gods and goddesses> > > > > You are describing Christianity in MEDIEVAL times and Atheism last > > century! > > > > And look at the manifest FAILURE of forced atheist indoctrination, > > of CHILDREN and ADULTS, in the USSR and Maoist China!!! > > > > Despite DECADES in which whole generations were INDOCTRINATED > > in atheism, they were amongst the LEAST THINKING SOCIETIES > > ON THE PLANET! > > > > Opressive, regimented, their atheism was MORE tyrannical and > > death dealing than ANY religion in history.. > > > > 60- 100,000,000 dead! The highest death toll per capita per year > > of tyranny, than any other form of human organisation! > > > > So don't try Guilt by association with me sonny Jim! > > > > And don't try and conflate 'atheism' which is an impotent, > > useless and innefectual sub-branch of Nihilism with > > RATIONAL THOUGHT when most of the rational thinkers throughout > > history have been religious! > > > > Go off and program 24 little atheists.. just realise, it's been > > tried, and failed, BEFORE, on a massive scale, for decades; > > > > http://www.thearchetypalconnection.com/images/RedGuardsLow.JPG > > > > How is this any different if you replace Lenin with Lennon > > > >> These camps simply redress the balance > > > > In other words you counter religious dogma with atheist dogma! > > > > Precisely > > > > > a little in > > > allowing the young individual to choose rather > > > than the parents or holyman. > > > > WTF are you crapping on about.. kids in state schools don't > > even meet a 'holyman' Are you seriously trying to tell us that > > the kids enroled aren't the children of atheists who want their > > children to share their bveliefs, just like many religious families do, > > but are kids from practising religious families who send their > > kids to an atheist program for 'some balance redressing'!!? > > > > Pull the other one! B^D > > > > You just SELECT material, like Church schools do, > > > > Tell me what an atheist camp teaches children that they do not > > learn in school already; > > > > Clear thinking, critical analysis, logic, the scientific method, > > history, culture(including the worlds religions) economics, > > mathematics, physics, evolution, the Big Bang ...? > > > > All developed in societies based on, inspired and sustained by > > spiritual systems. > > > > Will you teach them the history of Atheist States, the > > Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great > > Leap Backward and the Cultural Devolution, Pol Pots Year > > Zero and North Koreas dismal atheist shithole.. ? or will > > they have to get that sort of BALANCED viewpoint from the > > same school system which tells them about the Crusades, > > Inquisition, Witch Burnings, Borgia Popes, Holy Wars > > and Paedophile Priests? > > > > > > Most great scientists and thinkers in history had no trouble > > reconciling faith and reason, you understand one not at all and the other > > dimly; > > > > > > --------- > > > > The Harmony of Science and Religion" > > > > "Science without religion is lame, > > religion without science is blind." > > > > - Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: > > a Symposium", 1941 > > ^^^^^ > > > > Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-) > > > > `Abdu'l-Bah�, in 1912, stated that religion without science > > is mere superstition and that science without religion is > > crude materialism; > > > > "Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence > > can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s > > not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with > > the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of > > superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone > > he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of > > materialism." > > 'Abdu'l-Bah�, Paris Talks 1912 > > ^^^^ > > (London: Bah�'� Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46. > > > > "Bah�'u'll�h has declared that religion must be in > > accord with science and reason. If it does not > > correspond with scientific principles and the > > processes of reason, it is superstition. > > For God has endowed us with faculties by which > > we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate > > reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and > > science, faith is impossible; and when faith and > > confidence in the divine religion are not manifest > > in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment. > > - Abdul Baha > > > > > > --------- > > > > I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us > > with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use > > and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by > > them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical > > matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or > > necessary demonstrations. > > > > - Galileo Galilei 1615. > > > > ..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with > > the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, > > however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion > > is lame, religion without science is blind. > > > > - Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954 > > > > The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we > > are aware of it > > > > - Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher > > > > The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned > > in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven > > > > - Galileo Galilei 1564-1642 > > > > I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world > > > > - Louis Pasteur 1822-95 > > > > As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner > > by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things. > > > > - Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727 > > > > The scientific picture of the real world around me is very > > deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how > > an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is > > a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to > > which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God. > > > > - Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics > > "My view of the World" 1918 > > > > There can never be any real opposition between religion and science. > > Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the > > religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if > > all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance > > and harmony. > > > > - Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics > > "Where is Science Going" 1918 > > > > "Something unknown is doing we don't know what" > > -Sir Arthur Eddington > > > > Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can > > soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not > > possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the > > wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of > > superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone > > he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of > > materialism. > > > > - 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911 > > > > Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of > > the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as > > well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces > > worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the > > facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost > > beyond question." (2) > > > > George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in > > the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the > > complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use > > the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological > > status of the word." (3) > > > > Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it > > quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be > > some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the > > explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something > > instead of nothing." (6) > > > > John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards, > > a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the > > Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could > > never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances > > indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7) > > > > George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the > > thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, > > Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without > > intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence > > of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially > > crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8) > > > > Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or > > Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present > > state of scientific theory." (9) > > > > Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique > > event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very > > delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to > > permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say > > 'supernatural') plan." (10) > > > > Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe > > has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11) > > > > Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty > > of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very > > tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am > > sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12) > > > > Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by > > our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the > > divine." (13) > > > > Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has > > lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad > > dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to > > conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he > > is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for > > centuries." (14) > > > > Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall. be able to > > take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and > > the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the > > ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of > > God." (15) > > > > Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my > > career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced > > atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be > > writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo- > > Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are > > straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand > > them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable > > logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since > > has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The > > Physics Of Christianity. > > > > Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is > > described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created > > it."(17) > > > > Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the > > existence of God - the design argument of Paley - updated and > > refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie > > evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that > > requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one.... > > Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the > > teleological or design argument." (18) > > > > Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe, > > in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but > > our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19) > > > > Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no > > question but that a God will always be needed." (20) > > > > Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe, > > however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial > > conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21) > > > > Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981 > > Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the > > marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. > > The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God > > in the universe and in my own life." (22) > > > > Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and > > director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the > > University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes > > in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to > > myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little > > corner of God's plan." (23) > > > > > > > > Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to > > understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a > > superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to > > comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24) > > > > Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in > > Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I > > can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100 > > billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed > > and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would > > contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that > > the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out > > of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to > > that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may > > extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be > > entirely unique." (25) > > > > > > "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a > > little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the > > ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that > > someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It > > does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the > > child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a > > mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly > > suspects." - Albert Einstein > > > > "The statistical probability that organic structures and the most > > precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be > > generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist) > > Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry > > I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28 > > > > "The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a > > knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge, > > and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off > > even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a > > chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems > > unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived -- > > you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies > > (noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide > > University) > > > > > > Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this > > ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism; > > > > Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based on > > experimentation and inductive reasoning. > > > > Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world > > view. > > > > William Turner the "father of English botany" > > > > John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, > > Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals. > > > > Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids > > was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous > > scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was based > > on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous > > astronomical observations, > > > > Galileo Galilei > > > > Ren� Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in the > > Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system used in > > plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important work on > > invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy partially > > concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas with the > > dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal. > > > > Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem > > (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology). > > > > Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology > > > > Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of science > > could improve glorification of God. > > > > John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis, > > introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped > > develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product. > > > > > > Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating > > machine > > > > Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and > > mathematicians in history. > > > > Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society > > > > Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian. > > > > Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology. > > > > Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist, > > > > Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician > > > > Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics > > Michael Faraday > > > > Charles Babbage > > > > Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics" > > > > Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany. > > > > Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist and > > microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax, chicken > > cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the development of the > > first vaccines. > > > > > > Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal > > Medal, > > > > Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials > > > > Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry > > > > John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes, Fleming > > valve. the Hughes Medal. > > > > Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics > > > > Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne > > model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal > > Astronomical Society, > > > > Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics. > > > > Georges Lema�tre proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest > > > > Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science > > > > von Weizs�cker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizs�cker formula. > > > > Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The > > Convergence of Science and Religion. > > > > Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis > > Thomas Prize. > > > > John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change > > gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society. > > > > Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and > > Noncommutative geometry. > > > > Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize > > > > Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research > > Institute. > > > > John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic > > principle. > > > > Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of Rebuilding > > the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century. > > > > Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism. > > > > Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for > > evolutionary dynamics. > > > > > > And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers. > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists > > > After 10 minutes attempting to make sense of all this the only conclusion I > can make is that either English is not your first language or you are trying > to prove a point by squeezing the contents of most of the Internet onto one > post. > > # What is indoctrination? It is teaching something as absolutely true, not to be questioned (except by Dorothy Dixers), and to exclusion of rival beliefs. Education is different; nothing is excluded, and everything is open to question. Whether what Richard Dawkins is participating in amounts to indoctrination, remains to be seen. However, although most of our religions are an accident of birth - we just happen to have been born into the One True Faith - the strong-minded can throw off even indoctrination, although it isn't easy. The dinkum Atheist has no fear of open-minded discussion, and should have no need of indoctrination - as an impartial view of history reveals all deities to have been human inventions. Yes, the dogmatic atheism of Communism has been as guilty as Franco Spain, and the Axis Powers, of indoctrination - but this attitude is dying out, in favour of a more pragmatic approach, though economically, the Fall of the Berlin Wall hasn't ushered in the implied Utopia of Capitalism. However, maybe the Human Species has too large a brain, an over-specialisation which may prove an evolutionary defect, dooming us to imminent extinction. Our ecological problems are multiplying, and we are too slow to tackle them, or even recognise their existence. The delusion that any "God" worthy of the name would care about a writhing collection of maggots on a small ball of dung, down in his/her/its cosmic backyard, is pitiful. We shall have evolved, and become extinct, in blink of the eternal eye. Pray all you like - there's likely no one listening.
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only, have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BOR...
Author: Lee
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:21
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:21
54 lines
3889 bytes
3889 bytes
"Don H" <donlhumphries@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:X0a2m.1739$ze1.498@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote in message > news:4a48fb39$0$24002$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk... >> >> >> After 10 minutes attempting to make sense of all this the only conclusion > I >> can make is that either English is not your first language or you are > trying >> to prove a point by squeezing the contents of most of the Internet onto > one >> post. >> >> > > # What is indoctrination? It is teaching something as absolutely true, > not > to be questioned (except by Dorothy Dixers), and to exclusion of rival > beliefs. > Education is different; nothing is excluded, and everything is open to > question. > Whether what Richard Dawkins is participating in amounts to > indoctrination, remains to be seen. > However, although most of our religions are an accident of birth - we > just happen to have been born into the One True Faith - the strong-minded > can throw off even indoctrination, although it isn't easy. > The dinkum Atheist has no fear of open-minded discussion, and should > have > no need of indoctrination - as an impartial view of history reveals all > deities to have been human inventions. > Yes, the dogmatic atheism of Communism has been as guilty as Franco > Spain, and the Axis Powers, of indoctrination - but this attitude is dying > out, in favour of a more pragmatic approach, though economically, the Fall > of the Berlin Wall hasn't ushered in the implied Utopia of Capitalism. > However, maybe the Human Species has too large a brain, an > over-specialisation which may prove an evolutionary defect, dooming us to > imminent extinction. Our ecological problems are multiplying, and we are > too slow to tackle them, or even recognise their existence. > The delusion that any "God" worthy of the name would care about a > writhing collection of maggots on a small ball of dung, down in > his/her/its > cosmic backyard, is pitiful. We shall have evolved, and become extinct, > in > blink of the eternal eye. > Pray all you like - there's likely no one listening. > > Non existence was not so bad, I was really into it quite heavily for countless eons and still have not really worked out what all the fuss is about going back there one day.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Nosterill
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:39
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:39
17 lines
2247 bytes
2247 bytes
On Jun 28, 9:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are by default atheists.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Christopher A. Lee
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:17
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:17
19 lines
2152 bytes
2152 bytes
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT), Nosterill <fladgate@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Jun 28, 9:30�am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. >> >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > >While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am >not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to >send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming >anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in >the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. > >I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I >didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are >by default atheists. Don't tell Mike Jones - that can't happen on his planet.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Steve Hayes
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:24
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:24
31 lines
3015 bytes
3015 bytes
On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT), Nosterill <fladgate@hotmail.com> wrote: >On Jun 28, 9:30�am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. >> >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > >While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am >not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to >send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming >anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in >the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. > >I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I >didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are >by default atheists. I believe the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR organised such activities in its heyday (in the 1930s). Perhaps, as a militant atheist, Dawkins feels he needs to do the same. Or perhaps there is a real need -- many such camps are organised by religious groups, and if the children of atheist parents want to go to a camp, the parents might prefer to send them to ones that don't have religious activities. -- Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:59
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:59
46 lines
3336 bytes
3336 bytes
"Steve Hayes" <hayesmstw@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:2esl45pd462apr9eme4rp636qi4sb2sevt@4ax.com... > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT), Nosterill <fladgate@hotmail.com> > wrote: > >>On Jun 28, 9:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: >>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to >>> give you an atheist for life. >>> >>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first >>> summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in >>> evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. >> >>While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am >>not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to >>send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming >>anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in >>the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. >> >>I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I >>didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are >>by default atheists. > > I believe the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR organised such > activities in its heyday (in the 1930s). Perhaps, as a militant atheist, > Dawkins feels he needs to do the same. > > Or perhaps there is a real need -- many such camps are organised by > religious > groups, and if the children of atheist parents want to go to a camp, the > parents might prefer to send them to ones that don't have religious > activities. > -- > Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa > Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm > Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com > E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop > uk Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". Perhaps an attempt to provide the kids with the cognitive equivalent of a Swiss army knife.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Nosterill
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:59
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 08:59
58 lines
3871 bytes
3871 bytes
On Jul 1, 7:59 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Steve Hayes" <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:2esl45pd462apr9eme4rp636qi4sb2sevt@4ax.com... > > > > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT), Nosterill <fladg...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>On Jun 28, 9:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > >>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to > >>> give you an atheist for life. > > >>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > >>> summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > >>> evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > >>While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am > >>not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to > >>send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming > >>anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in > >>the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. > > >>I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I > >>didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are > >>by default atheists. > > > I believe the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR organised such > > activities in its heyday (in the 1930s). Perhaps, as a militant atheist, > > Dawkins feels he needs to do the same. > > > Or perhaps there is a real need -- many such camps are organised by > > religious > > groups, and if the children of atheist parents want to go to a camp, the > > parents might prefer to send them to ones that don't have religious > > activities. > > -- > > Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa > > Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm > > Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com > > E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop > > uk > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". > > Perhaps an attempt to provide the kids with the cognitive equivalent of a > Swiss army knife. Good science classes should do that. If they don't get fed religion along with their mother's milk then they aren't likely to fall for it after they have learnt to think critically.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:07
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 09:07
67 lines
4223 bytes
4223 bytes
"Nosterill" <fladgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:25df556c-b072-4453-94b2-bdfedc402b5f@c36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com... On Jul 1, 7:59 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Steve Hayes" <hayesm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:2esl45pd462apr9eme4rp636qi4sb2sevt@4ax.com... > > > > > On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:40 -0700 (PDT), Nosterill > > <fladg...@hotmail.com> > > wrote: > > >>On Jun 28, 9:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > >>> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try > >>> to > >>> give you an atheist for life. > > >>> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > >>> summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > >>> evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > >>While this is a refreshing riposte to the Christian boot camps, I am > >>not persuaded that it is necessary. Children of parents who choose to > >>send them there are hardly likely to be in need of de-programming > >>anyway and remedial evolution classes are probably not necessary in > >>the UK. Kids who would benefit from this are not going to get sent. > > >>I didn't intentionally raise my sons to be atheists but, since I > >>didn't raise them to be Christians, Muslims or anything else, they are > >>by default atheists. > > > I believe the League of Militant Atheists in the USSR organised such > > activities in its heyday (in the 1930s). Perhaps, as a militant atheist, > > Dawkins feels he needs to do the same. > > > Or perhaps there is a real need -- many such camps are organised by > > religious > > groups, and if the children of atheist parents want to go to a camp, the > > parents might prefer to send them to ones that don't have religious > > activities. > > -- > > Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa > > Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm > > Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com > > E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full > > stop > > uk > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". > > Perhaps an attempt to provide the kids with the cognitive equivalent of a > Swiss army knife. Good science classes should do that. If they don't get fed religion along with their mother's milk then they aren't likely to fall for it after they have learnt to think critically. ---------------------------------------------------- Certainly true the human race is fast growing away from the tribe and the village so any bonding social or otherwise that religion once provided is pretty much redundant and contempory people are far better off being able to think independently in an efficient manner rather than following pack mentality.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Richo
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:20
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:20
36 lines
2989 bytes
2989 bytes
On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? Mark.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Jimbo
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:40
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:40
40 lines
3289 bytes
3289 bytes
On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > Mark. Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before commenting.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:53
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:53
49 lines
3495 bytes
3495 bytes
"Jimbo" <ckdbigtoe@gmail.com> wrote in message news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to > > give you an atheist for life. > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a �10 prize for the child > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no > > religion too". > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as > > crop circles and telepathy. > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > Mark. Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before commenting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - weren't they born atheist?
Author: Kilmir
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:31
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:31
92 lines
5155 bytes
5155 bytes
On Jun 28, 5:13 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > Trance Gemini wrote: > > On Jun 28, 4:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > >> children will have lessons in evolution > > Don't they get that in school already? Probably the basics. Evolution crosses multiple disciplines, the more you learn about it the more questions you can ask about it, and also the more fascinating it gets. > In state schools, where I imagine atheist parents send their kids, > what religious teaching would they have been exposed to? Religious nonsense comes from all sides. From people knocking on your door to "spread the word" to preachers on tv wanting money to presidents attacking other nations because his god told him to. > And if they didn't get it at home, from those atheist parents, > then all their education and training should have been > free of any religious indoctrination, and according to atheists, > if tehy were atheists as babies they should still be! They probably still are. > So why the need to have the kids fdra week to make sure they are > atheists for life!??? > > That isn't educating how to think, that is having a pre-determined > GOAL to make them into atheists.. INDOCTRINATION! It's a quip from Dawkins in response to christian summer camps that claim to convert children into good Christians. Dawkins goal is to make the children skeptical and capable of critical thinking. His assumption, quite well founded, is that a critical thinker is much less likely to ever take up a religion. > >> and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > But making children listen to Lennon is no different to making > them listen to Lenin! That makes no sense. > >> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, > > >> they will sit around the embers belting out > >> "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". > > So it's jiust substituting One Dogma for another! It doesn't claim there is a heaven or not, it just wants you to imagine it and see what would be different. It's a tool for skeptics to view things from different sides and in different frameworks. > Nothing to do with Thinking for themselves, they get no > more choice than if they were forced to sing Kumbaya. I'll bet you $1000 that if one of the kids would refuse to sing it and argued in a rational way why he'd get a round of applause from Dawkins. And probably the pick of the next song to sing a long. > If they were allowed to choose what they sang they > really would be autonomous and Free Thinkers, not atheist > puppets. atheist puppets. Nice. You really have no clue how the world works outside your dogma, do you? > What are atheists afraid of if they let the kids choose what they > sang.. that they might sing Lily Allen? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZm1TstpjQ The atheists aren't afraid to let the kids choose. They would suggest Imagine by John Lennon because of the hopeful dream of a better world, and they would explain why they chose it. Now to ask the question in reverse, why are theists afraid of letting the children choose? > > Maybe we should ask Dawkins to run adult retreats too :-) > > Yes.. you atheists all need to be taught how to think for yourself, > by the same guru! B^D B^D Most of us just appreciate his way with words and the eloquence of his arguments. If you were less ignorant you'd probably enjoy the company of real intellectuals as well.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - weren't they born atheist?
Author: Jimbo
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:38
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:38
51 lines
3658 bytes
3658 bytes
On Jul 1, 11:31 am, Kilmir <kil...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Jun 28, 5:13 pm, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com.au> wrote: > > > Trance Gemini wrote: > > > On Jun 28, 4:30 am, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to give you an atheist for life. > > > >> children will have lessons in evolution > > > Don't they get that in school already? > > Probably the basics. Evolution crosses multiple disciplines, the more > you learn about it the more questions you can ask about it, and also > the more fascinating it gets. > > > In state schools, where I imagine atheist parents send their kids, > > what religious teaching would they have been exposed to? > > Religious nonsense comes from all sides. From people knocking on your > door to "spread the word" to preachers on tv wanting money to > presidents attacking other nations because his god told him to. > > > And if they didn't get it at home, from those atheist parents, > > then all their education and training should have been > > free of any religious indoctrination, and according to atheists, > > if tehy were atheists as babies they should still be! > > They probably still are. > > > So why the need to have the kids fdra week to make sure they are > > atheists for life!??? > > > That isn't educating how to think, that is having a pre-determined > > GOAL to make them into atheists.. INDOCTRINATION! > > It's a quip from Dawkins in response to christian summer camps that > claim to convert children into good Christians. > Dawkins goal is to make the children skeptical and capable of critical > thinking. His assumption, quite well founded, is that a critical > thinker is much less likely to ever take up a religion. > > > >> and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > But making children listen to Lennon is no different to making > > them listen to Lenin! > > That makes no sense. > You've just summed up all of fagnadh's posts.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Jimbo
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:48
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:48
73 lines
4167 bytes
4167 bytes
On Jul 1, 9:53 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try to > > > give you an atheist for life. > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based breaks > > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways of > > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child > > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will sit > > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no > > > religion too". > > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to "encourage > > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 > > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as canoeing > > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such as > > > crop circles and telepathy. > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > > Mark. > > Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before > commenting. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-...- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thanks, I noticed that later. Seems a bit bizarre, but if the parents are letting the kids go, I see no relative difference between an "Atheist Camp", and "Camp Thump The Bible In Their Faces". I personally wouldn't let my kids go to either one, but to each their own I suppose.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:55
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:55
79 lines
4462 bytes
4462 bytes
"Jimbo" <ckdbigtoe@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ad355cd3-0dd0-49ec-88ad-10e2f0a67ad1@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com... On Jul 1, 9:53 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try > > > to > > > give you an atheist for life. > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > > breaks > > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways > > > of > > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a �10 prize for the child > > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will > > > sit > > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no > > > religion too". > > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to > > > "encourage > > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 > > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as > > > canoeing > > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such > > > as > > > crop circles and telepathy. > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > > Mark. > > Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before > commenting. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�--- > > There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: > > http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-...- > Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Thanks, I noticed that later. Seems a bit bizarre, but if the parents are letting the kids go, I see no relative difference between an "Atheist Camp", and "Camp Thump The Bible In Their Faces". I personally wouldn't let my kids go to either one, but to each their own I suppose. ---------------------------- I think given the choice I would rather my kids go to the Dawkins camp if they were still of an age for such stuff.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Jimbo
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:10
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:10
98 lines
5163 bytes
5163 bytes
On Jul 2, 10:55 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:ad355cd3-0dd0-49ec-88ad-10e2f0a67ad1@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 1, 9:53 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > > > > > > > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try > > > > to > > > > give you an atheist for life. > > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons in > > > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > > > breaks > > > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways > > > > of > > > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the child > > > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will > > > > sit > > > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no > > > > religion too". > > > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to > > > > "encourage > > > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All 24 > > > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as > > > > canoeing > > > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such > > > > as > > > > crop circles and telepathy. > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > > > Mark. > > > Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before > > commenting. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: > > >http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-... > > Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Thanks, I noticed that later. Seems a bit bizarre, but if the parents > are letting the kids go, I see no relative difference between an > "Atheist Camp", and "Camp Thump The Bible In Their Faces". I > personally wouldn't let my kids go to either one, but to each their > own I suppose. > > ---------------------------- > > I think given the choice I would rather my kids go to the Dawkins camp if > they were still of an age for such stuff.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Such places are a bit frightening. Certainly I can teach my children better. I have noticed a tendancy for some Atheist to be every bit as religionistic and the Theists in recent years. Some are almost militant.
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Lee
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:30
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:30
98 lines
5245 bytes
5245 bytes
"Jimbo" <ckdbigtoe@gmail.com> wrote in message news:35b8c2ab-4c8c-4921-aefc-97278716cccd@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com... On Jul 2, 10:55 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:ad355cd3-0dd0-49ec-88ad-10e2f0a67ad1@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 1, 9:53 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > > > > > > > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will > > > > try > > > > to > > > > give you an atheist for life. > > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons > > > > in > > > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > > > breaks > > > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways > > > > of > > > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a �10 prize for the > > > > child > > > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will > > > > sit > > > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and > > > > no > > > > religion too". > > > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to > > > > "encourage > > > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All > > > > 24 > > > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as > > > > canoeing > > > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such > > > > as > > > > crop circles and telepathy. > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > > > Mark. > > > Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before > > commenting. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------��--- > > > There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: > > >http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-... > > Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Thanks, I noticed that later. Seems a bit bizarre, but if the parents > are letting the kids go, I see no relative difference between an > "Atheist Camp", and "Camp Thump The Bible In Their Faces". I > personally wouldn't let my kids go to either one, but to each their > own I suppose. > > ---------------------------- > > I think given the choice I would rather my kids go to the Dawkins camp if > they were still of an age for such stuff.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Such places are a bit frightening. Certainly I can teach my children better. I have noticed a tendancy for some Atheist to be every bit as religionistic and the Theists in recent years. Some are almost militant. Is this in the US?
Re: Dawkins to set up summer camp for youngsters to encourage them to think for themselves - nice one Dawkins =D
Author: Jimbo
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:25
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:25
120 lines
5767 bytes
5767 bytes
On Jul 2, 11:30 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > news:35b8c2ab-4c8c-4921-aefc-97278716cccd@l28g2000vba.googlegroups.com... > On Jul 2, 10:55 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > > > > > > > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > >news:ad355cd3-0dd0-49ec-88ad-10e2f0a67ad1@s16g2000vbp.googlegroups.com... > > On Jul 1, 9:53 am, "Lee" <me@localhost> wrote: > > > > "Jimbo" <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote in message > > > >news:e758cc77-a8df-4472-abb5-b7a37159e538@n16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com... > > > On Jul 1, 7:20 am, Richo <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 28, 6:30 pm, "Lee" <m...@localhost.com> wrote: > > > > > > GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will > > > > > try > > > > > to > > > > > give you an atheist for life. > > > > > > The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first > > > > > summer retreat for non-believers, where children will have lessons > > > > > in > > > > > evolution and sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > > > > The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for > > > > > children aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > > > > breaks > > > > > run by the Scouts and church groups. > > > > > > Budding atheists will be given lessons to arm themselves in the ways > > > > > of > > > > > rational scepticism. There will be sessions in moral philosophy and > > > > > evolutionary biology along with more conventional pursuits such as > > > > > trekking and tug-of-war. There will also be a £10 prize for the > > > > > child > > > > > who can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > > > > Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, they will > > > > > sit > > > > > around the embers belting out "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and > > > > > no > > > > > religion too". > > > > > > Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed to > > > > > "encourage > > > > > children to think for themselves, sceptically and rationally". All > > > > > 24 > > > > > places at the retreat, which runs from July 27-31, have been taken. > > > > > > Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such as > > > > > canoeing > > > > > and swimming but the mornings will be spent debunking phenomena such > > > > > as > > > > > crop circles and telepathy. > > > > > >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece > > > > > Is this for real or is someone taking the piss? > > > > > Mark. > > > > Not sure. It seems satirical to me. Waiting for more info before > > > commenting. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > There is many sources carrying the story from Google news search: > > > >http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dawkins+summer+camp&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-... > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > Thanks, I noticed that later. Seems a bit bizarre, but if the parents > > are letting the kids go, I see no relative difference between an > > "Atheist Camp", and "Camp Thump The Bible In Their Faces". I > > personally wouldn't let my kids go to either one, but to each their > > own I suppose. > > > ---------------------------- > > > I think given the choice I would rather my kids go to the Dawkins camp if > > they were still of an age for such stuff.- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - > > Such places are a bit frightening. Certainly I can teach my children > better. I have noticed a tendancy for some Atheist to be every bit > as religionistic and the Theists in recent years. Some are almost > militant. > > Is this in the US?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - In and out of the US. Not many, but a few.
Re: Atheists who used to INDOCTRINATE MILLIONS of children, now only have 24 victims - But don't atheists claim babies are BORN...
Author: Reverend Dave
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:24
Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 04:24
190 lines
7362 bytes
7362 bytes
fasgnadh <fasgnadh@yahoo.com.au> wrote in news:8nL1m.1487$ze1.1261@news-server.bigpond.net.au: > Lee wrote enthusiastically about atheist indoctrination of kids: Except that all Lee did was cut and paste the article by Lois Rogers from The Sunday Times. > > > > http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:1652?context=latest > > So, atheism is not just a lack of belief in a God, it is a belief that > Children should be TAUGHT atheist beliefs.. and they even borrow > the old Jesuit saying No, again, that was Lois Rogers, undoubtedly a self-righteous Christian, who borrowed the phrase. Besides, what exactly are atheist beliefs? > >> GIVE Richard Dawkins a child for a week's summer camp and he will try >> to give you an atheist for life. >> > > So atheists want to teach anti-R.E. rather than allowing the child to > make up it's own mind. Exactly how do you propose to allow children to make up their own minds? Wouldn't it be fair to the children to first allow them to learn to think logically before exposing them to concepts like religion? > > >> The author of The God Delusion is helping to launch Britain's first >> summer retreat for non-believers, > > where children will have lessons in evolution and > > sing along to John Lennon's Imagine. > > > I guess if you have no EVIDENCE for atheist beliefs you are trying to > inculcate in defenceless children, you have to ask them to IMAGINE > your beliefs are true. > > >> The five-day camp in Somerset (motto: "It's beyond belief") is for >> children > > aged eight to 17 and will rival traditional faith-based > > breaks run by the Scouts and church groups. >> >> Budding atheists > > What hypocrisy.. they are described as NON-bleievers and yet > at 8 how can they have reasonably made up their mind? But of course it's perfectly OK for believers to take children as young as three or four and start teaching them prayers and talking to them about God and Jesus. No hypocrisy there. > > And now here it is admitted they are not really Non-believers yet, > but they SOON WILL BE! 8^o > > > will be given lessons to arm themselves > > in the ways of rational scepticism. > > Why would anyone need to send their kids to an Atheist Madrassa > to do that? they are not learning Rational scepticism, > they are being taught atheist beliefs! > > "Give us the child and we will give you the man" is all about > Values and Belief FORMATION! 8^o It's also about indoctrination, and it's what religious folks have been doing since the beginning. It's pretty clear that you don't want for others what you expect for youself. > >> There will be sessions > > in moral philosophy and evolutionary biology along > > with more conventional pursuits such as trekking and tug-of-war. > > Don't they get that at school? Last I checked, evolutionary biology wasn't taught until at least grade ten and moral philosophy was a university level course. > >> There will also be a �10 prize for the child who > > can disprove the existence of the mythical unicorn. > > > Oh so it's just Red Guard Propaganda.. rant the party line > and you will get a reward! pfffft > > This is just the USSR or Maos Cultural Devolution > with a smiling face! WTF? > > >> Instead of singing Kumbiya and other campfire favourites, > > they will sit around the embers belting out > > "Imagine there's no heaven . . . and no religion too". >> > > When you have no RATIONAl proof you have to make the Kids IMAGINE your > beliefs are true! Talk about ironic! > >> Dawkins, who is subsidising the camp, said it was designed > > to "encourage children to think for themselves, > > sceptically and rationally". > > That's why they are made to sing songs about atheist beliefs? > > How is that different from having to sing Hymns in a church school? At least they're not filling the kids heads with mythology. > > All these cults are the same, the believe they have the ONLY truth, > and push their atheist views down the throats of impressionable > children. What a hypocrite! This is exactly what religion does. > > Who has ever seen Dawkins being other than a bombastic fanatic!? Sometimes you have to be a bombastic fanatic when you're surrounded by bombastic religious fanatics. > > Even long time atheists are uncomfortable with his dogmatism! > > God Help any poor 8 year old kid who dared to THINK for himself > in the direction of faith! 8^o The whole purpose of the camp is to allow kids to think for themselves. > > > All 24 places at the retreat, which runs > > from July 27-31, have been taken. > > Thank God it's only 24, presumably children of the Cult leaders.. > poor kids. I always gave my kids free choice about such matters. > The idea of sending them on a camp where everyone thinks one way > is not an environment conducive for Free Thinkers! pffffft! I'm willing to bet you dragged your kids off to Sunday school as soon as they were eligible. > > But Atheists claim all children are BORN atheists, why do they need > to re-program them to become what they already should be! > > Something is Fishy at the Ministry of Truth! B^D > >> Afternoons will be filled with familiar camp activities such > > as canoeing and swimming but the mornings will > > be spent debunking phenomena such as crop circles and telepathy. > > B^D Tilting at windmills... > > Dawkins always tackles the fundies and frauds, he cannot > cope with sophisticated mainstream faith, only with CARICATURES > of religious belief. > > >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article6591236.ece >> >> >> >> > > -- Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. - Charles Darwin
Thread Navigation
This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.
Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.
Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.
Back to All Threads