🚀 go-pugleaf

Thor <man@arms.com> wrote in message
news:idyv3.805$3j1.80138@news.oh.voyager.net...

>>> They only see, and understand what the native
>>> application's file/open window shows them.

>> And thats all they need.

> Oh really?

Yes, really, as far as your claims about needing to 'know DOS' are
concerned. It makes sense to teach them how to use the explorer
and the other explorer like approaches to the management of files on
their system. It makes absolutely no sense what so ever to be wasting
heaps of time teaching them how to do that stuff at the dos prompt.

The world's moved on, they're using Win for a reason. Time you woke up.

> You are a fine example of "the dumbing down" of computer users.

You're a fine example of a dinosaur. There's always been some
of those in any subset of computing. I've seen it time after time after
time, with dinosaurs raving on about punched cards, line editors, holding
their noses at menus in things like 124 and Multiplan, etc etc etc.

> You really should be using a Mac.

You really should be using punched cards.

> And I never said that general users should utilize DOS,
> or DOS windows instead of using windows itself,

No one ever said you did.

> only that if a prior knowledge of DOS exists, it helps
> new windows users understand things much better, and
> grasp concepts of the file system much more clearly.

And that is just plain wrong with DOS prompt ops for normal Win users.
Complete waste of time teaching them that stuff. Much better to spend
that time teaching them how to use Win to do what they want to do.

Its distinctly arguable if it makes any sense to be teaching them
how to deal with a system that cant boot Win at all, even in safe
mode. Makes a lot more sense to just have a clear description
of how to handle that particular situation that they can use if
they are ever in that particular situation instead.

> And if you think it is so rare for windows to be broken
> to the point of not even operating in safe mode,

Its rare for a particular user and thats what matters as far
as teaching them how to handle that situation is concerned.
With the much more practical alternative of a clear description
of what to do in that situation if they ever see it than teaching
them all about DOS prompt ops. Which they will have forgotten
by the time they need them anyway because they wont be using
them between the time you teach them that and they need it.

> than you clearly don't have much experience in repairing modern PC's.

You have no idea at how many are laughing themselves sick at you now.

> In my business, I get one in the shop in that state probably twice a week.

Says SFA about what makes sense with the training of a particular Win user.

> And, I wouldn't even consider hiring anyone who calls him/herself
> a "technician" if they didn't have a good understanding of DOS.

Got SFA to do with how to train Win users.

> It is critical, crucial, and it is the foundation that windows is built upon.

Completely and utterly irrelevant when what was being discussed
was the use of a FAT32 Win9x system thats working fine and how
much sense it makes to be furiously pounding away on the keyboard
at the DOS prompt in that sort of system today.

> Rod Speed <rodspeed@ozemail.com.au> wrote
>> Thor <man@arms.com> wrote

>>> Absolutely correct.

>> Completely wrong when what is being discussed is how
>> to partition the boot drive with a FAT32 Win9x system.

>>> The wonderful thing about having someone
>>> learn DOS before getting into Windows,

>> Completely mad, the world's moved on.

>>> is because DOS forces you to visualize the
>>> file system through the command line interface.

>> Completely useless for Win9x ops.

>>> After they grasp that concept, windows is
>>> much easier to digest for the novice user.

>> On crap. Novice users just save files where the app points and they
>> can handle that fine without wasting lots of time with DOS prompt stuff.

>>> I can't tell you how many people I deal with that use computers
>>> (windows) on a daily basis, and still have absolutely no grasp
>>> of how files are stored, and where to retrieve them later.

>> They dont need that. They also cant rebuild a system at
>> the hardware level either and they dont need that either.

>>> They only see, and understand what the native
>>> application's file/open window shows them.

>> And thats all they need.

>>> Put that file in another folder, and they are completely lost.

>> Not if they are shown what that stuff is
>> about, using the app etc, or using explorer.

>> Complete waste of time farting around at
>> the DOS prompt with that class of user.

>> Thats why Win has taken off so spectacularly and DOS died.

>>> For the technician side of things, there are often situations when
>>> Windows is hosed to the point of not even running in safe mode.

>> Thats quite uncommon and says SFA about how the boot
>> drive should be partitioned. Makes absolutely no sense at
>> all doing the partitioning for that very rare situation.

>>> It's in these cases that a working knowledge of DOS is an invaluable tool.

>> It aint even necessary for that situation and you need
>> to know a lot more than just DOS prompt ops to be able
>> to do anything useful with a system in that state anyway.

>>> I don't think ANY PC technician should be without those basic skills.

>> Got SFA to do with how a boot drive of
>> a FAT32 Win9x system should be partitioned.

>>>> Well, they still teach DOS in most/many computer certification programs,
>>>> and there are times when a knowledge of DOS will help in the event of a
>>>> crash. It is also a basic knowledge of "DOS" that allows setting up of
>>>> folders, correctly unzipping files into temporary folders, and using the
>>>> Start-Run. I recently had to look at a laptop computer which had a
>>>> defective video circuit, and was a write-off (no display on its own or
>>>> external VGA port). I was able to get a directory printout and back up
>>>> some files to floppy using DOS...with Windows 3 or 95/98 it would
>>>> have been just about impossible, but with DOS it was easy.