🚀 go-pugleaf

"rello" <relloman@beasty.com> wrote in message
news:4088f437.47047881@news-server...
> got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
>
> the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
> as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
>

You're actually a very lucky person.  The only component you would NOT have
wanted to keep was killed by the lightning.  And you are very lucky in the
sense that this dell box actually had a ummm . . . video card?!?  Wow.  I'd
suggest you buy a really really CHEAP bare bone system (case, power supply,
mainboard) and build yourself a new computer.  You might even be able to get
this off ebay.  Then remove current partitions from hard drive and install
windows XP.  BTW, do NOT try to use the old power supply, even if the
connectors look like they will fit.

Use it as your own personal computer, don't sell it.  -Dave

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:50:13 GMT, relloman@beasty.com (rello) wrote:

>got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
>lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
>
>the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
>floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
>as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
>
>i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
>origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
>for people who cant do without a computer........
>
>what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
>applications.....
>thanks for any and all replies
>
>relloman
>relloman

It depends on how much $ your time is worth.
Sound and modem are relatively cheap items, especially since many
motherboards have integrated sound.  However if the Dell used a
proprietary power supply then your ability to source another Dell board
cheaply may determine if the rebuilt is even cost-effective, ignoring the
value of your time.    After you get it working again  you'll just have to
test it and see how it does.  If there's any chance the system would be
storing semi-valuable data you might want to replace the hard drive too,
and possibly the memory. The machine should certainly stay with you to be
tested for longer than a (non-damaged) typical system.

Be sure to test power supply, at least voltages, and memory extensively
with http://www.memtest86.com , hard drive with manufacturer's
diagnostics.  If you have need for a "testing station" then that would
seem a good role for the system.

rello wrote:
> got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
> 
> the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
> as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
> 
> i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
> origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
> for people who cant do without a computer........
> 
> what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
> applications.....
> thanks for any and all replies
> 
> relloman
> relloman

I wouldn't use it for anything. The components, though they may be 
working now, probably have a significantly reduced lifespan. Also, I 
doubt you have the time or resources to really have a good check of the 
components (neither would I). Don't sell it, it's damaged goods. Give it 
away if you don't want it. Who knows what the person will actually be 
using it for. A critical component that was there during the lightning 
strike could end up dying the night before a job interview and they lose 
their resume or some such. Personally, I'd try and run some very basic 
diagnostics/testing software (memtest86, the HDD manufacturer's testing 
software, etc) and use it as something to play around with, as you've 
already suggested. Anything that'll fry the mobo will have done some 
degree of damage to the other components.

-- 
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

sooky grumper wrote:

> I wouldn't use it for anything.

this sentence was incomplete: should have read ...for anything you might 
ever want to save.


> The components, though they may be 
> working now, probably have a significantly reduced lifespan. Also, I 
> doubt you have the time or resources to really have a good check of the 
> components (neither would I). Don't sell it, it's damaged goods. Give it 
> away if you don't want it. Who knows what the person will actually be 
> using it for. A critical component that was there during the lightning 
> strike could end up dying the night before a job interview and they lose 
> their resume or some such. Personally, I'd try and run some very basic 
> diagnostics/testing software (memtest86, the HDD manufacturer's testing 
> software, etc) and use it as something to play around with, as you've 
> already suggested. Anything that'll fry the mobo will have done some 
> degree of damage to the other components.
> 


-- 
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

>got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
>lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
>
>the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
>floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
>as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
>
>i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
>origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
>for people who cant do without a computer........
>
>what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
>applications.....
>thanks for any and all replies
>
>relloman
>relloman

You can depend on the case only. Since PC parts that work one day and
not the next are a nightmare, destroy them. Got a PC hit by lightning,
just barely. No burned marks and almost got into Windows. Put the
drive on my desktop to get data off as a favor. It completely hosed my
drive with 35GB of data on it.

relloman@beasty.com (rello) wrote in message news:<4088f437.47047881@news-server>...
> got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
> 
> the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
> as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
> 
> i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
> origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
> for people who cant do without a computer........
> 
> what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
> applications.....
> thanks for any and all replies
> 
> relloman
> relloman

hey relloman,

I had a lightning strike also.  The only things that survived were the
hp printer and monitor.  Tech support for hp helped get the printer
working.  Anything with a circuit board was fried.

Dennis

I'd think using it as a testing station should be the last thing you'd use
it for.  You'd never be sure that the test wasn't caused by damage on the
lightning strike.  The best system for testing would be your most stable
one.

Clint

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:0rvh809ig61fuuft1s2rcb33e998en1sb9@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:50:13 GMT, relloman@beasty.com (rello) wrote:
>
> >got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> >lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
> >
> >the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> >floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
> >as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
> >
> >i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
> >origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
> >for people who cant do without a computer........
> >
> >what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
> >applications.....
> >thanks for any and all replies
> >
> >relloman
> >relloman
>
> It depends on how much $ your time is worth.
> Sound and modem are relatively cheap items, especially since many
> motherboards have integrated sound.  However if the Dell used a
> proprietary power supply then your ability to source another Dell board
> cheaply may determine if the rebuilt is even cost-effective, ignoring the
> value of your time.    After you get it working again  you'll just have to
> test it and see how it does.  If there's any chance the system would be
> storing semi-valuable data you might want to replace the hard drive too,
> and possibly the memory. The machine should certainly stay with you to be
> tested for longer than a (non-damaged) typical system.
>
> Be sure to test power supply, at least voltages, and memory extensively
> with http://www.memtest86.com , hard drive with manufacturer's
> diagnostics.  If you have need for a "testing station" then that would
> seem a good role for the system.

  Determining how and what is damaged can be an interesting
lesson in how damage occurs.  For example, if it was
lightning, then damaged component have both an incoming and
outgoing electrical path for that lightning.  Obviously, the
modem is a classic example: incoming on AC electric. Outgoing
on phone line. This damages modem.  But usually, a modem need
only have something in its DAA or off hook relay circuit
replaced (ie a PNP transistor) and is perfectly good again.

  What else was connected to computer at time of strike?  For
example, could printer or network card also have been good
outgoing paths?  IOW you must also know how each was connected
as part of the building's wiring.  Analysis of how transient
transversed the computer must be from a building perspective.

  Devices that should not be damaged are memory and CPU.  Each
have an incoming but no outgoing path.

  By using known information, then determine which parts (bad
and still working) may have conducted the transient.  Those
would be the damaged and 'may fail in future' parts.

  The analysis can be challenging which is why so many just
say, "Trash it".  Continued repair depends on whether you want
to save money or you want to really learn something.

rello wrote:
> got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
> 
> the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and 
> s/card as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be 
> fried .....
> 
> i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
> origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a 
> fill in for people who cant do without a computer........
> 
> what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the 
> above applications.....
> thanks for any and all replies

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:23:26 GMT, "Clint" <cneufeld@mysocks.shaw.ca>
wrote:

>I'd think using it as a testing station should be the last thing you'd use
>it for.  You'd never be sure that the test wasn't caused by damage on the
>lightning strike.  The best system for testing would be your most stable
>one.
>
>Clint
>

That's a good point, but on the other hand there really can't be only ONE
testing station, a multitude of machines are needed to test different
power, chipsets, etc, without the arduous swapping back and forth of other
components.

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 10:50:13 GMT, relloman@beasty.com (rello) wrote:

>got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
>lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
>
>the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
>floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and s/card
>as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be fried .....
>
>i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
>origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a fill in
>for people who cant do without a computer........
>
>what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
>applications.....
>thanks for any and all replies

*Hatter is skeptical*

Just what do you mean by "knocked out by a lighting strike"?  Pretty much unless it got HIT directly
by lighting (and boy wouldn't that be a show)...it's probably just peachy.  If the lighting struck
one of the major power lines, trust me, you would know, like anything that was plugged into the wall
would be history and if you complained to the power company they would buy you new stuff.

Further, I would suspect that it only got hit with a slight surge or spike, either way the system is
probably just fine.  Try flipping that lil red switch on the back of the power supply a few times,
unplug and replug it in, hit the reset switch on the power strip and reseat the processor and memory
(it's amazing how often doing just that can get it running just fine again).

--

Onideus Mad Hatter
mhm ¹ x ¹
http://www.backwater-productions.net

I'm not sure I'm following your incoming/outgoing path statements.  AFAIK,
every electrical device has to have both, otherwise you'd have no current
flowing through the device, rendering it useless.  Kind of like sticking a
lightbulb on one end of a battery.  Until you complete the circuit, you
don't get a light.

Clint

"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40894297.C6B68D97@hotmail.com...
>   Determining how and what is damaged can be an interesting
> lesson in how damage occurs.  For example, if it was
> lightning, then damaged component have both an incoming and
> outgoing electrical path for that lightning.  Obviously, the
> modem is a classic example: incoming on AC electric. Outgoing
> on phone line. This damages modem.  But usually, a modem need
> only have something in its DAA or off hook relay circuit
> replaced (ie a PNP transistor) and is perfectly good again.
>
>   What else was connected to computer at time of strike?  For
> example, could printer or network card also have been good
> outgoing paths?  IOW you must also know how each was connected
> as part of the building's wiring.  Analysis of how transient
> transversed the computer must be from a building perspective.
>
>   Devices that should not be damaged are memory and CPU.  Each
> have an incoming but no outgoing path.
>
>   By using known information, then determine which parts (bad
> and still working) may have conducted the transient.  Those
> would be the damaged and 'may fail in future' parts.
>
>   The analysis can be challenging which is why so many just
> say, "Trash it".  Continued repair depends on whether you want
> to save money or you want to really learn something.
>
> rello wrote:
> > got a newish dell dimension 4500 in that was knocked out by a
> > lightning strike......i got the job of disposing of the box :)
> >
> > the mobo is definitely dead but all the majors, hd, both cd drives,
> > floppy ram and video board are ok...havent tested the modem and
> > s/card as yet but s/card prolly ok......modem i expect to be
> > fried .....
> >
> > i could sell it at a very low price [with a statement as to its
> > origin], use it as a testing station or maybe hire it out as a
> > fill in for people who cant do without a computer........
> >
> > what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the
> > above applications.....
> > thanks for any and all replies

rello wrote:

...snip.....

> what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
> applications.....
> thanks for any and all replies

Bin it or givie it away with absolutely no guarantees.

Seriously, if this is for a business, and it or a part starts to prove
unreliable, you will spend more on support/getting it fixed that it
costs to buy a new one.

  Incoming and outgoing currents on two AC wires is a
differential mode transient.  First such transients are easily
stopped or made irrelevant by computer power supply. Power
supply contains layers of protection including isolation
transformers, optoisolators, and shunt devices that make
differential transients irrelevant.  Second differential mode
are typically not the destructive transient.

  Defined is a typically destructive transient - lightning - 
that would be common mode.  Incoming on any one or all AC
electric wires.  And yes, one incoming AC wire even bypasses
power supply to connect directly to motherboard and
peripherals.  Look for outgoing path elsewhere, such as mouse
cord hanging on baseboard heater, via network cable, or a most
common outgoing path - modem and phone line to earth ground.

  Again, this is common mode.  But to appreciate it (and what
ineffective protectors would have you not understand to make
their sales), the analyst's perspective must include cloud,
building, earth, and computer.  Analysis only inside computer
is too myopic.  A destructive transient seeks earth ground. 
One path to earth ground is via computer because transient was
not earthed before entering the building.

  Only now are we ready to identify that common mode transient
path, inside computer, to earth ground.  There is no such
outgoing path through CPU or memory.  One path may exist via
printer port - depending on how and where printer connects. 
But to find those outgoing paths, analyst must include other
electrically conductive materials such as baseboard heat
pipes, vinyl or concrete flooring, etc.

  Some may talk about external modem damaged today.  Then
serial port fails tomorrow.  It is called overstress.  Expect
an overstressed semiconductor to fail days or even months
later.  This is why we identify the path that a common mode
transient would seek to earth ground.  This is why any or all
three incoming AC wires are typically only the incoming
current path.

  Big difference between differential and common mode
transients.  Since common mode transients are a typically
destructive type, then effective protection must be located at
the building service entrance; to earth that transient before
it can enter the building.  Once inside a building, well, one
must spend significant time locating numerous potential paths
to earth ground through that Dell computer.

Clint wrote:
> I'm not sure I'm following your incoming/outgoing path statements.
> AFAIK, every electrical device has to have both, otherwise you'd 
> have no current flowing through the device, rendering it useless.  
> Kind of like sticking a lightbulb on one end of a battery.  Until 
> you complete the circuit, you don't get a light.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 07:23:39 +1000, Terry Collins <terryc@woa.com.au>
wrote:

>rello wrote:
>
>...snip.....
>
>> what would opinion be on putting it back into service for the above
>> applications.....
>> thanks for any and all replies
>
>Bin it or givie it away with absolutely no guarantees.
>
>Seriously, if this is for a business, and it or a part starts to prove
>unreliable, you will spend more on support/getting it fixed that it
>costs to buy a new one.
thanks everyone..i have mounted the cpu on a cheap msi all in one and
will use it around here as a workshop hack for a while and see how it
goes......be interesting to see how long the hard drive lasts...when
it all boils down to it that,s the only really crtical element......
relloman