🚀 go-pugleaf

David Maynard wrote:
> kony wrote:
>
... snip ...
> 
>> Howvever, you again presuppose I suggest MS should be
>> accountable for something.   I do not.  I dont' expect to
>> call them up and be told how to Netbeui anything.
> 
> If you also don't care if it works 'right', whatever that might
> mean (a non trivial thing to define as well), then you're not
> talking about "support" and the issue is moot.
> 
... snip ...
>>
>> Only in one narrow definition of "support", which is why I
>> mentioned that previously, the context of a "support"
>> definition.  Clearly I do not put much weight in what
>> WIndows officially supports in your mind, since in my mind,
>> it doesn't even officiall or non-officially "support" things
>> they claim it "suports", like security.  COULD it be set up
>> to be more secure?  Yes, but likewise, Netbeui could be set
>> up to work.  Support HAS to be taken in context.
> 
> Now I see what the problem is: your vision of 'support'. And I'm
> telling you that even if you *think* nothing has 'changed' it has
> to be retested. And if you provide 'support' you have to at least
> provide bug tracking and some level of assistance, even if it's
> to tell someone it doesn't work that way when they screw it up.
> 
> And that doesn't even count that the odds you'll find nothing to
> 'fix', or a workaround to explain, after an O.S. change is next
> to zero. And the more sure you are "nothing can go wrong" the
> closer to zero it is.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times a programmer's answer to a problem
> has been "but I didn't change anything THERE" only to be followed
> a few hours later but "oh wait, that interacts with..."
> 
> Remember, our original poster is all pissed because HE CAN'T MAKE
> IT WORK and is incensed MS no longer 'supports' it because he
> wants them to MAKE IT WORK. So what do you think *he* means by
> 'support'?

uSoft (and most others) have never offered support that includes
'make it work'.  At most they will offer some lame excuse for it
not working, and possibly a work around.  Then there are also the
instances of simple customer ignorance, which is not appreciably
curtailed by the total absence of instruction and reference
manuals.

For the type of support you want you have to go to the open source
world, and a few conscientious vendors.  The latter are few and far
between.  As an example, I have found that FinePrint is a
compromise (though they won't admit it).  Several times I have
informed them of a failing, awkwardness, etc. in their package, and
they have effectively said "that's the way things are".  However I
have often found that within a couple of months their next release
(available free) incorporates the fix.  Sometimes it has waited for
the next major release and has cost me $10.00 to upgrade.

Real support, where someone knowledgeable listens, and goes off to
investigate, only exists in the opensource and the odd small
vendor.  I have had that sort of thing in the dim past from various
compiler (and other) vendors.  Zortech used to be a shining
example, until bought and destroyed by Symantec.  The problem with
such support is that you have to separate the "I bought a Yugo and
it doesn't perform like a Benz" types and ignore them.

> 
... snip ...
> 
>> "Support" does not mean "warranty" in general.
> 
> Yes, it does, although not to the extent you're trying to imply.
> 
> "We support X."
> 
> Does it work?  No.  Are you going to make it work?  No.  Is there
> a workaround?   No.

All support means is "We admit it is our product.  Pay us".

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