🚀 go-pugleaf

Kenneth wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
> 
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
> 
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
> 
> Today, I got the error again.
> 
> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> the most rigorous test method.
> 
> The disk passed...
> 
> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> there be another explanation for these errors?
> 
> Sincere thanks,

	Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The 
HD is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before 
being used.

Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?

In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue screens 
of death or some other error message constantly.

Steve

"Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message 
news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> Kenneth wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
>> corrupted and unreadable."
>>
>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>>
>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
>> fine until today.
>>
>> Today, I got the error again.
>>
>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>> the most rigorous test method.
>>
>> The disk passed...
>>
>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>> there be another explanation for these errors?
>>
>> Sincere thanks,
>
> Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The HD 
> is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before 
> being used. 

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:08:59 -0000, "Steven"
<NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?
>
>In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue screens 
>of death or some other error message constantly.
>
>Steve
>
>"Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message 
>news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> Kenneth wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
>>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
>>> corrupted and unreadable."
>>>
>>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
>>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>>>
>>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
>>> fine until today.
>>>
>>> Today, I got the error again.
>>>
>>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>>> the most rigorous test method.
>>>
>>> The disk passed...
>>>
>>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>>> there be another explanation for these errors?
>>>
>>> Sincere thanks,
>>
>> Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The HD 
>> is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before 
>> being used. 
>

Hello again,

The RAM possibility is remote as (for unrelated reasons) I
ran a test for about 10 hours just prior to the first time I
got the disk error and it looked fine.

I can check, or even replace the cable, but it does seem
unlikely to me that it would get flaky "on its own", that
is, without my so much as opening the case in many months.

Based upon my description, could it be that the disk itself
is getting flaky?

Thanks again,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

 Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>the most rigorous test method.
>
>The disk passed...
>
>Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>there be another explanation for these errors?

Run CHKDSK (or scandisk) if windows OS

If errors are found they will be placed in a directory FOUND,
Check the files for corruption, find the application responsible.

A file name with higher ascii will give the same error if in a
directory (the file name will have small squares)
you can enter the directory with  CMD.

You can also use HDD Health http://www.panterasoft.com/
it uses SMART info, and a day and time it will die :)

-- 
Vista DRM Explained
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390286&cid=21713610

Kenneth wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:08:59 -0000, "Steven"
> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?
>>
>> In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue screens 
>> of death or some other error message constantly.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> "Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message 
>> news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Kenneth wrote:
>>>> Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
>>>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
>>>> corrupted and unreadable."
>>>>
>>>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
>>>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>>>>
>>>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
>>>> fine until today.
>>>>
>>>> Today, I got the error again.
>>>>
>>>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>>>> the most rigorous test method.
>>>>
>>>> The disk passed...
>>>>
>>>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>>>> there be another explanation for these errors?
>>>>
>>>> Sincere thanks,
>>> Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The HD 
>>> is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before 
>>> being used. 
> 
> Hello again,
> 
> The RAM possibility is remote as (for unrelated reasons) I
> ran a test for about 10 hours just prior to the first time I
> got the disk error and it looked fine.
> 
> I can check, or even replace the cable, but it does seem
> unlikely to me that it would get flaky "on its own", that
> is, without my so much as opening the case in many months.
> 
> Based upon my description, could it be that the disk itself
> is getting flaky?
> 
> Thanks again,

	If you have tested the RAM like you said, then I would guess the HD is 
suspect.  I trust you have scanned for viruses so you are not fighting 
one?  As for the cable, it is unlikely to be the problem since it does 
not show up more frequently.

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:07:59 -0800, Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
wrote:

> Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:
>
>>This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>>the most rigorous test method.
>>
>>The disk passed...
>>
>>Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>>there be another explanation for these errors?
>
>Run CHKDSK (or scandisk) if windows OS
>
>If errors are found they will be placed in a directory FOUND,
>Check the files for corruption, find the application responsible.
>
>A file name with higher ascii will give the same error if in a
>directory (the file name will have small squares)
>you can enter the directory with  CMD.
>
>You can also use HDD Health http://www.panterasoft.com/
>it uses SMART info, and a day and time it will die :)

Howdy,

I will try the Pantera product, but have difficulties with
your other suggestion:

If I try to run CHKDSK from Windows, I get the error "Cannot
open volume for direct access" followed by the suggestion
that I run CHKDSK...<g>

If I try the same from a command prompt, I get the same
error (without the follow up suggestion.

If I boot off a PE CD and try I get "The disk structure is
corrupted and unreadable."

It was at a similar point several weeks ago that I decided
to re-format.

I should also add that the WD Diagnostics (and I have run
the extended version of the tests twice passing both times)
also includes the SMART measurements, and those pass as
well.

Thanks for any further thoughts,



Thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:12:38 -0600, Ken <ken@invalid.com>
wrote:

>If you have tested the RAM like you said, then I would guess the HD is 
>suspect.  I trust you have scanned for viruses so you are not fighting 
>one?  As for the cable, it is unlikely to be the problem since it does 
>not show up more frequently.

Hi again,

Yes, I ran extended RAM tests (12 hours or so) and had no
errors perhaps a month ago.

The box is protected by Kaspersky AV, and it is up to date.

It certainly does seem to me that the disk itself is getting
flaky.

Thanks for your help on this,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:rt4em3p11ctg8bq1urcutsv298fh4qgthi@4ax.com...
>
> Howdy,
>
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
>
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
>
> Today, I got the error again.
>
> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> the most rigorous test method.
>
> The disk passed...
>
> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> there be another explanation for these errors?
>
> Sincere thanks,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

If this is a drive that can be saved Spin Rite will do it. 
http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm

The smartdrive info is about useless.  I have used spin rite to bring back a 
few drives that would not even boot.  It also can be used about 3 times a 
year to condition your drive to prevent the disk from going bad over time. 

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:24:03 -0500, "Billh" <menot@home.com>
wrote:

>If this is a drive that can be saved Spin Rite will do it. 
>http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm
>
>The smartdrive info is about useless.  I have used spin rite to bring back a 
>few drives that would not even boot.  It also can be used about 3 times a 
>year to condition your drive to prevent the disk from going bad over time. 

Howdy,

I am not trying to save the drive...

Everything on it is well backed up elsewhere.

It is just that I did not want to replace it if there were
something other than its impending failure at work.

Sincere thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

 Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>If I try to run CHKDSK from Windows, I get the error "Cannot
>open volume for direct access" followed by the suggestion
>that I run CHKDSK...<g>
>
>If I try the same from a command prompt, I get the same
>error (without the follow up suggestion.

Start | Run <type in>
CMD /K CHKDSK /?
<enter>

You might try CHKDSK /X


-- 
Vista DRM Explained
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=390286&cid=21713610

Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive. Get a hard drive
with a guarantee longer than one year maybe seagate.

Kenneth wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:08:59 -0000, "Steven"
> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?
> >
> >In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue screens
> >of death or some other error message constantly.
> >
> >Steve
> >
> >"Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message
> >news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >> Kenneth wrote:
> >>> Howdy,
> >>>
> >>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> >>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> >>> corrupted and unreadable."
> >>>
> >>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> >>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
> >>>
> >>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> >>> fine until today.
> >>>
> >>> Today, I got the error again.
> >>>
> >>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> >>> the most rigorous test method.
> >>>
> >>> The disk passed...
> >>>
> >>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> >>> there be another explanation for these errors?
> >>>
> >>> Sincere thanks,
> >>
> >> Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The HD
> >> is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before
> >> being used.
> >
>
> Hello again,
>
> The RAM possibility is remote as (for unrelated reasons) I
> ran a test for about 10 hours just prior to the first time I
> got the disk error and it looked fine.
>
> I can check, or even replace the cable, but it does seem
> unlikely to me that it would get flaky "on its own", that
> is, without my so much as opening the case in many months.
>
> Based upon my description, could it be that the disk itself
> is getting flaky?
>
> Thanks again,
> --
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

--
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

Is that you Steve? I think the word you're looking for is gammy, gammy ram.

Steven wrote:

> Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?
>
> In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue screens
> of death or some other error message constantly.
>
> Steve
>
> "Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Kenneth wrote:
> >> Howdy,
> >>
> >> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> >> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> >> corrupted and unreadable."
> >>
> >> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> >> best bet was to re-format the drive.
> >>
> >> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> >> fine until today.
> >>
> >> Today, I got the error again.
> >>
> >> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> >> the most rigorous test method.
> >>
> >> The disk passed...
> >>
> >> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> >> there be another explanation for these errors?
> >>
> >> Sincere thanks,
> >
> > Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your RAM.  The HD
> > is most likely the problem, but data is read and stored in RAM before
> > being used.

--
Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

Kenneth wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 01:08:59 -0000, "Steven"
> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Check/Replace  IDE/SATA cable?
>>
>> In the event you have dodgy Ram you would probably be getting blue
>> screens of death or some other error message constantly.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> "Ken" <ken@invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:fbydnW5M15f0hfranZ2dnUVZ_hadnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>> Kenneth wrote:
>>>> Howdy,
>>>>
>>>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
>>>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
>>>> corrupted and unreadable."
>>>>
>>>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
>>>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>>>>
>>>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
>>>> fine until today.
>>>>
>>>> Today, I got the error again.
>>>>
>>>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>>>> the most rigorous test method.
>>>>
>>>> The disk passed...
>>>>
>>>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>>>> there be another explanation for these errors?
>>>>
>>>> Sincere thanks,
>>>
>>> Before condemning the HD, I would run a thorough test of your
>>> RAM.  The HD is most likely the problem, but data is read and
>>> stored in RAM before being used.
>>
>
> Hello again,
>
> The RAM possibility is remote as (for unrelated reasons) I
> ran a test for about 10 hours just prior to the first time I
> got the disk error and it looked fine.
>
> I can check, or even replace the cable, but it does seem
> unlikely to me that it would get flaky "on its own", that
> is, without my so much as opening the case in many months.
>
> Based upon my description, could it be that the disk itself
> is getting flaky?

Could be.  Could also be the power supply.  Or RAM.  Or power/IDE
cables to the drive.

I've had several drives fail (all Western Digital) but I have also had
drives *appear* to fail (become unreadable) when the PSU got flaky.


-- 

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:45:08 -0800, Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
wrote:

> Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:
>
>>If I try to run CHKDSK from Windows, I get the error "Cannot
>>open volume for direct access" followed by the suggestion
>>that I run CHKDSK...<g>
>>
>>If I try the same from a command prompt, I get the same
>>error (without the follow up suggestion.
>
>Start | Run <type in>
>CMD /K CHKDSK /?
><enter>
>
>You might try CHKDSK /X

Howdy,

With that command, I get:

"Corrupt Master File Table."

Thanks for any further thoughts,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:48:10 -0500, Tony
<Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote:

>Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive. Get a hard drive
>with a guarantee longer than one year maybe seagate.

Howdy,

The switch of brands may be a fine idea, but it is my
understanding that modern disks cannot be "low level
formatted" by the end user.

Am I wrong about that?

Thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?

Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment to look at 
all the other posts.


Steve
"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:0jfem3tjee1jb7isgolf0erbl64hacnt8q@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 22:24:03 -0500, "Billh" <menot@home.com>
> wrote:
>
>>If this is a drive that can be saved Spin Rite will do it.
>>http://www.grc.com/sr/spinrite.htm
>>
>>The smartdrive info is about useless.  I have used spin rite to bring back 
>>a
>>few drives that would not even boot.  It also can be used about 3 times a
>>year to condition your drive to prevent the disk from going bad over time.
>
> Howdy,
>
> I am not trying to save the drive...
>
> Everything on it is well backed up elsewhere.
>
> It is just that I did not want to replace it if there were
> something other than its impending failure at work.
>
> Sincere thanks,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." 

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:15:20 -0000, "Steven"
<NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?
>
>Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment to look at 
>all the other posts.

Hi Steve,

Nobody has asked, and, as it turns out, you might be onto
something...

The system is in an enclosed cabinet that is double vented,
and has an exhaust fan.

Despite, that, the space is typically around 95F.

That always seemed warm to me, but certainly within the
range of safe use.

Please tell me more about why you asked...

Sincere thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:48:10 -0500, Tony
> <Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote:
>
>> Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive.
>> Get a hard drive with a guarantee longer than one year maybe
>> seagate.
>
> Howdy,
>
> The switch of brands may be a fine idea, but it is my
> understanding that modern disks cannot be "low level
> formatted" by the end user.
>
> Am I wrong about that?

Yes.  But for all practical purposes, no.

"Low level formatting" involves writing track/sector data to the drive
along with other data and a byte pattern.  It was normally done (via
DOS) with 5 1/4" floppies, maybe with the little floppies too, but
took a long time even when disk capacity was 80 KB.  Given the size of
hard drives it would take bloody forever now even allowing for the
vastly greater CPU and drive speed.

However, it *could* be done if one knew what one was doing, had a
program to do so (or could write one directly accessing the disk drive
controller) and had eons to wait.

-- 

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Kenneth wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:15:20 -0000, "Steven"
> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?
>>
>> Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment
>> to look at all the other posts.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Nobody has asked, and, as it turns out, you might be onto
> something...
>
> The system is in an enclosed cabinet that is double vented,
> and has an exhaust fan.
>
> Despite, that, the space is typically around 95F.
>
> That always seemed warm to me, but certainly within the
> range of safe use.

95 degrees is nothing.


-- 

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

 Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 21:45:08 -0800, Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
>wrote:
>
>> Kenneth <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If I try to run CHKDSK from Windows, I get the error "Cannot
>>>open volume for direct access" followed by the suggestion
>>>that I run CHKDSK...<g>


>>You might try CHKDSK /X

>With that command, I get:
>
>"Corrupt Master File Table."

At this point I agree with Billh, Spinrite is the best option if you
want to recover the HD, or even if you just want to play with spinrite
on this drive, in case you ever really need it at sometime in the
future.

Since the drive checks out, I would think a program was responsible,
and Nortons GoBack keeps coming to mind. Not running GoBack are you?
-- 
Police shoot dead two actors playing bank robbers in a crime movie
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7149216.stm

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:33:31 -0800, Pennywise@DerryMaine.Gov
wrote:

>At this point I agree with Billh, Spinrite is the best option if you
>want to recover the HD, or even if you just want to play with spinrite
>on this drive, in case you ever really need it at sometime in the
>future.
>
>Since the drive checks out, I would think a program was responsible,
>and Nortons GoBack keeps coming to mind. Not running GoBack are you?

Howdy,

I vowed long ago never to use another Symantec product
(don't ask) so no... but:

I have duplicates of everything on the disc.

As I have said earlier in this thread, I have no need to
recover anything on the disk, I am just trying to determine
if I should replace the disk.

All the best,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:rt4em3p11ctg8bq1urcutsv298fh4qgthi@4ax.com...
>
> Howdy,
>
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
>
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
>
> Today, I got the error again.
>
> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> the most rigorous test method.
>
> The disk passed...
>
> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> there be another explanation for these errors?
>
> Sincere thanks,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

What does SMART say?  If you don't have a utility to
read SMART, download the Everest Ultimate trial from
lavalys.com, if you don't already have it. Lots of
useful stuff in this app, some locked out for the trial
version.

Wikipedia has a complete explanation of the SMART
parameters here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-Monitoring,_Analysis,_and_Reporting_Technology 

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:36:50 -0500, "Ian D"
<taurus@nowhere.com> wrote:

>What does SMART say?

The WD Diagnostics includes SMART, and says "Passed."

All the best,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

well I remember after running one of my western digital drives without good 
cooling it died in about a year so I guess it might be it.

After western digital let me down like that I started using Maxtor hard 
drives they still get toasty but haven't died yet.

Perhaps you could run the HDD out side its case or whatever its in to 
attempt to give it max air flow then test it in windows or whichever program 
your using.

Did you also say your running it in a USB style caddy? if so do you get the 
same results when attaching the drive physically into the PC?


Steve

"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:dbufm355f9tqefncjo68rm0h9onfn2o5av@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:15:20 -0000, "Steven"
> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?
>>
>>Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment to look 
>>at
>>all the other posts.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Nobody has asked, and, as it turns out, you might be onto
> something...
>
> The system is in an enclosed cabinet that is double vented,
> and has an exhaust fan.
>
> Despite, that, the space is typically around 95F.
>
> That always seemed warm to me, but certainly within the
> range of safe use.
>
> Please tell me more about why you asked...
>
> Sincere thanks,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." 

"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
news:rt4em3p11ctg8bq1urcutsv298fh4qgthi@4ax.com...
>
> Howdy,
>
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
>
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
>
> Today, I got the error again.
>
> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> the most rigorous test method.
>
> The disk passed...
>
> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> there be another explanation for these errors?
>

There is a possibility at least that the drive could be bac anyway.
It happened to me once.
drive passed the mfg's diagnostic but just plain was bad.
The problem never occured again when the drive was replaced.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 07:58:36 -0500, Kenneth
<usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:48:10 -0500, Tony
><Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote:
>
>>Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive. Get a hard drive
>>with a guarantee longer than one year maybe seagate.
>
>Howdy,
>
>The switch of brands may be a fine idea, but it is my
>understanding that modern disks cannot be "low level
>formatted" by the end user.
>
>Am I wrong about that?
>
>Thanks,


Today's supposed "low level format" is only writing zeros to
all data areas.  It was an unnecessary suggestion as it
won't do anything more useful than merely recreating
partitions and filesystems traditionally.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 19:27:19 GMT, "dadiOH"
<dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:15:20 -0000, "Steven"
>> <NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?
>>>
>>> Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment
>>> to look at all the other posts.
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> Nobody has asked, and, as it turns out, you might be onto
>> something...
>>
>> The system is in an enclosed cabinet that is double vented,
>> and has an exhaust fan.
>>
>> Despite, that, the space is typically around 95F.
>>
>> That always seemed warm to me, but certainly within the
>> range of safe use.
>
>95 degrees is nothing.


95 degrees is something, because a drive then generates heat
and is hotter than 95F.

Some drives will overheat just sitting out upside down on a
table running.  95F also puts lesser margin on all aspects
of system cooling and requires a significantly higher
airflow rate.  It's quite possible to run a system in 95F
environment, but the extra steps to counter this higher
ambient temp must be taken.

There seems a pretty easy way to check this, get the system
out of that cabinet, pull the cover off and point a fan at
it then see if the problem is reproduced... though at this
point heat "could" have done more damage like wearing out
capacitors which cause corruption before the drive gets the
data.

dadiOH wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
>> Tony <Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote:
>>
>>> Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive.
>>> Get a hard drive with a guarantee longer than one year maybe
>>> seagate.
>>
>> The switch of brands may be a fine idea, but it is my
>> understanding that modern disks cannot be "low level
>> formatted" by the end user.
>>
>> Am I wrong about that?
> 
> Yes.  But for all practical purposes, no.
> 
> "Low level formatting" involves writing track/sector data to the
> drive along with other data and a byte pattern.  It was normally
> done (via DOS) with 5 1/4" floppies, maybe with the little
> floppies too, but took a long time even when disk capacity was 80
> KB.  Given the size of hard drives it would take bloody forever
> now even allowing for the vastly greater CPU and drive speed.

No, it is impossible.  Low level format requires various precise
(and expensive) equipment that the end user does not have.  They
place guiding tracks on dedicated cylinders, which in turn control
head positioning.

-- 
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, Happy New Year
        Joyeux Noel, Bonne Annee.
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
     <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>



-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Steven wrote:
> 
> Just wondering has drive been exposed to high levels of heat?
> 
> Sorry if its allready been asked but i havent the time the moment
> to look at all the other posts.

Which is probably due to the laziness of other top-posters.

Please do not top-post.  Your answer belongs after (or intermixed
with) the quoted material to which you reply, after snipping all
irrelevant material.  See the following links:

-- 
  <http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
  <http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html>
  <http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html>
  <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/>  (taming google)
  <http://members.fortunecity.com/nnqweb/>  (newusers)


-- 
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:06:43 -0600, "philo"
<philo@privacy.net> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message
>news:rt4em3p11ctg8bq1urcutsv298fh4qgthi@4ax.com...
>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
>> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
>> corrupted and unreadable."
>>
>> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
>> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>>
>> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
>> fine until today.
>>
>> Today, I got the error again.
>>
>> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
>> the most rigorous test method.
>>
>> The disk passed...
>>
>> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
>> there be another explanation for these errors?
>>
>
>There is a possibility at least that the drive could be bac anyway.
>It happened to me once.
>drive passed the mfg's diagnostic but just plain was bad.
>The problem never occured again when the drive was replaced.
>
>
Howdy,

That is the direction I am moving...

Given the value of my time against the cost of replacing the
disk, I will probably just pop another in.

All the best,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 22:01:53 -0000, "Steven"
<NOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>well I remember after running one of my western digital drives without good 
>cooling it died in about a year so I guess it might be it.
>
>After western digital let me down like that I started using Maxtor hard 
>drives they still get toasty but haven't died yet.
>
>Perhaps you could run the HDD out side its case or whatever its in to 
>attempt to give it max air flow then test it in windows or whichever program 
>your using.
>
>Did you also say your running it in a USB style caddy? if so do you get the 
>same results when attaching the drive physically into the PC?
>
>
>Steve
>

Hi Steve,

No, it is not in a caddy. It is a conventionally installed
internal drive.

"Testing" it outside its case will not do too much for me
because the problem arose after about two years of use, then
I reformatted, then it happened again, after about three
weeks.

I could not conveniently leave it outside of the enclosure
for another three or four weeks to check it out.

Thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:r2ggm3pr8a1l64fj6evq8u9is779pgrsde@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:36:50 -0500, "Ian D"
> <taurus@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>What does SMART say?
>
> The WD Diagnostics includes SMART, and says "Passed."
>
> All the best,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Did you check the smart log itself to see if there have
been any errors recorded?  There may be errors that
haven't accumulated to the threshold level of a failed test.
Any Data value other than "0" for test 01 is problematic.
If Data values for 01, 05, 07, 0A, 0B, C4, C5, C6, C7, C8 are
all "0", then the drive has had no hardware related errors.

On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:37:33 -0500, "Ian D"
<taurus@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
>news:r2ggm3pr8a1l64fj6evq8u9is779pgrsde@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:36:50 -0500, "Ian D"
>> <taurus@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>What does SMART say?
>>
>> The WD Diagnostics includes SMART, and says "Passed."
>>
>> All the best,
>> -- 
>> Kenneth
>>
>> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>
>Did you check the smart log itself to see if there have
>been any errors recorded?  There may be errors that
>haven't accumulated to the threshold level of a failed test.
>Any Data value other than "0" for test 01 is problematic.
>If Data values for 01, 05, 07, 0A, 0B, C4, C5, C6, C7, C8 are
>all "0", then the drive has had no hardware related errors.
>

Hello again,

No... I did not know that I could. Right now, the machine is
not accessible, but I will check the log as you suggest.

Thanks,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Well, for one, if a RAM stick was failing it could also cause data 
corruption, which would result in receiving the same message.

-- 
--DaveW
"Kenneth" <usenet@soleSPAMLESSassociates.com> wrote in message 
news:rt4em3p11ctg8bq1urcutsv298fh4qgthi@4ax.com...
>
> Howdy,
>
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
>
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
>
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
>
> Today, I got the error again.
>
> This time, I ran the Western Digital Diagnostics and chose
> the most rigorous test method.
>
> The disk passed...
>
> Is it likely that this disk is on its way out, or could
> there be another explanation for these errors?
>
> Sincere thanks,
> -- 
> Kenneth
>
> If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." 

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:40:44 -0800, "DaveW"
<radiation@nuclear.org> wrote:

>Well, for one, if a RAM stick was failing it could also cause data 
>corruption, which would result in receiving the same message.

Hi again,

Indeed, it could, but about two weeks prior to the first
occurrence of the error, I had run a memtest+ for about 25
hours with no errors.

Certainly the memory could have developed a problem after
that, but prior to the errors, but it would be a heck of a
coincidence.

All the best,
-- 
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 07:25:50PM +0000, dadiOH wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
> > On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 02:48:10 -0500, Tony
> > <Tony@TheDeli.Sandwich> wrote:
> >
> >> Next time do a low level format when you format the hard drive.
> >> Get a hard drive with a guarantee longer than one year maybe
> >> seagate.
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > The switch of brands may be a fine idea, but it is my
> > understanding that modern disks cannot be "low level
> > formatted" by the end user.
> >
> > Am I wrong about that?
> 
> Yes.  But for all practical purposes, no.

True it's not the sort of thing most computer users would do since you need
third-party software to engage the format subroutine in the drive's
firmware.  Google hard-disk recovery tools and you'll easily find something
with that feature.
 
> "Low level formatting" involves writing track/sector data to the drive
> along with other data and a byte pattern.  It was normally done (via
> DOS) with 5 1/4" floppies, maybe with the little floppies too, but
> took a long time even when disk capacity was 80 KB.  Given the size of
> hard drives it would take bloody forever now even allowing for the
> vastly greater CPU and drive speed.
 
> However, it *could* be done if one knew what one was doing, had a
> program to do so (or could write one directly accessing the disk drive
> controller) and had eons to wait.

There are a bunch of utilites out there that will let you send the format
command to the drive.  I did it a few times several years ago and got mixed
results.  Some drives seem to implement it as a no-op while others take
gobs of time doing something to the platters.  I assume it is as you said
that a pattern is written to the drive including a gap on each track of
known length and other data which is going to be particular to the software
running on the drive's controller board.

I suppose there are good reasons as to why it generally takes so long to do
the low-level format, but it's not clear that it would take proportionately
longer on hard-disks of contemporary size since they are also so much
faster than earlier models.  To wit, in my laptop I have a tiny little
Fujitsu 120G drive that sustains 40MB per second.  That's just crazy in
comparison to what I could get out of a fast Seagate drive ten years ago.
Progress is your friend.

If low-level formatting doesn't seem to do anything, you'll just have to
live with the fact that hard-drives (yours included) are closed systems
without user-serviceable parts inside. :(


Dr. Beard

Kenneth wrote:
> 
> About three weeks ago, when I tried to open a file on a 250
> gig WD drive, I got the error "The file or directory is
> corrupted and unreadable."
> 
> Based on what I read about that error, I decided that my
> best bet was to re-format the drive.
> 
> After the format, I put it back into service, and all was
> fine until today.
> 
> Today, I got the error again.

Sometimes you have to zero fill the drive to get it back to factory
specs. 






-- 
http://www.bootdisk.com/