🚀 go-pugleaf

Steven O. wrote:

> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 
> 
> Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
> or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
> same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
> code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
> create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
> the code that makes it work.  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
> there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.  

Try Borland Delphi or Borland C++ Builder.  They used to do a Personal 
Edition that you could download and use for free... couldn't add any 
third-party components to it, couldn't run programs outside the IDE, 
etc. but good for getting an idea about the whole thing.

If you're willing to go to Java there are a few free IDEs that might be 
useful, but I don't know if any of them come with a GUI designer. 
Perhaps one of the friendly Java people could assist with that.

-- 
Corey Murtagh
The Electric Monk
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur!"

Java is still tuff. Netbeans or Eclipse are the IDEs to try. both are free
www.netbeans.org  or www.eclipse.org
nothings as easy as vb6
"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed?
>
> Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
> or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
> same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
> code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
> create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
> the code that makes it work.  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
> there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.
>
> I visited Sun's site, and it *appears* they've discontinued all their
> personal and student versions (unless I missed something), and I can't
> afford $1000+ for the tools I did see.  Borland still has the JBuilder
> "Foundation" version, for free -- can anyone tell me how user-friendly
> that is?
>
> Please let me know what you can recommend.  I can be contacted
> directly via e-mail, if you visit the Web site in my Sig, below.
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
> Steve O.
>
> "Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is
the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
> www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004

I am not sure what type of application you want to prototype, but if it is
something that needs to interact with a database, have a look at STEP
FORWARD from www.gestalt.com. Explorer Edition is free, and there are video
clips to give you an idea of what it looks like before you d/l and install
it.

Alex Molochnikov
Gestalt Corporation

"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed?
>
> Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
> or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
> same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
> code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
> create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
> the code that makes it work.  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
> there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.
>
> I visited Sun's site, and it *appears* they've discontinued all their
> personal and student versions (unless I missed something), and I can't
> afford $1000+ for the tools I did see.  Borland still has the JBuilder
> "Foundation" version, for free -- can anyone tell me how user-friendly
> that is?
>
> Please let me know what you can recommend.  I can be contacted
> directly via e-mail, if you visit the Web site in my Sig, below.
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
> Steve O.
>
> "Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is
the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
> www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com

You can try using the free NetBeans IDE. Download NetBeans IDE 3.6 (or
4.0 beta 1 if you want) from www.netbeans.org.


Regards,
Anindo Ghosh



Steven O. <null@null.com> wrote in message news:<vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com>...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 
> 
> Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
> or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
> same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
> code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
> create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
> the code that makes it work.  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
> there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.  
> 
> I visited Sun's site, and it *appears* they've discontinued all their
> personal and student versions (unless I missed something), and I can't
> afford $1000+ for the tools I did see.  Borland still has the JBuilder
> "Foundation" version, for free -- can anyone tell me how user-friendly
> that is?
> 
> Please let me know what you can recommend.  I can be contacted
> directly via e-mail, if you visit the Web site in my Sig, below.
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
> 
> Steve O.
> 
> "Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
> www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com

In article <vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com>, null@null.com says...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 

QT Designer (and all the goodies that go with) is quite easy to use,
and has the advantage of being cross-platform portable to Windows,
Linux, UNIX and MacOS X.  It's also free unless you want to use it
for commercial code in which there is a license fee.  www.trolltech.com.


-- 
Randy Howard
To reply, remove FOOBAR.

"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping.

Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one evolutionary
step further.

In article <vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com>, null@null.com 
says...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 

Have you tried MSVC?  Certainly dropping controls on a dialog and 
linking code to them is easy enough.

- Gerry Quinn

Hi Steven,

if you want a really easy-to-use and powerfull Java GUI designer, take a
look at JFormDesigner. It is much easier to use than the GUI designers in
Netbeans, JBuilder, etc. and you don't need deep knowledge of GridBagLayout.
JFormDesigner is ideal for GUI prototyping because you don't need a huge and
complicated IDE to use it.

Take a look at the online demo of JFormDesigner at www.jformdesigner.com.

Best regards,
Karl

In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa> 
writes
>
>"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
>news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
>> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping.
>
>Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one evolutionary
>step further.
>

LOL. That isn't even Microsoft's view, they are spending both time and 
money on getting an ECMA standard for a number of extensions to C++ so 
that it will be easier to use as .NET authoring language. The main 
reason for that effort is that their technical people believe that C++ 
is essentially a more powerful general purpose language.

There are a number of nice features in C# but I understand that it is 
primarily MS's candidate for replacing VB with an ISO Standard language 
(note C# is an ISO standard language)


-- 
Francis Glassborow      ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects

Steven O. <null@null.com> wrote in message news:<vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com>...
> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 
For C++, there is (was?) Borland C++Builder. Actually, this is what we
use for all our development projects, and we are very satisfied.
However, this product is being discontinued...

As for Java, I don't know of anything on par with VB, nor Borland
Delphi. There are a few good opensource IDEs, but none are even
remotely as visual nor as user-friendly as VB or Delphi. Hopefully
this will change. I'm starting an opensource project to fill this gap,
you can have a look at my project page at jdelphi.dev.java.net.
Unfortunately, this project is still in the conceptive stages, and no
actual code has been written as yet. Since it is a rather ambitious
project, I'm trying to get some more people interested in helping me
with it...

Having said that, there is one tool I'm aware of (in fact I'm planning
to base my JDelphi IDE on this tool), called AbaGuiBuilder. It's not
really an IDE, neither is it anywhere near as advanced as VB nor
Delphi, but it has made a significant step in the right direction.
It's hosted on sourceforge.net, if you want to take a look.

> I visited Sun's site, and it *appears* they've discontinued all their
> personal and student versions (unless I missed something), and I can't
> afford $1000+ for the tools I did see.  Borland still has the JBuilder
> "Foundation" version, for free -- can anyone tell me how user-friendly
> that is?
I'm personnaly not very impressed with the GUI designer in JBuilder.
The IDE as a whole strikes me as a bit flickery, and not too
enjoyable, but the GUI designer is particularly so. But why not
download it and try it for yourself?
 
Regards,
Jonathan Neve.

In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian
<aa@aa.aa> wrote:

> "Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
> news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> > I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping.
> 
> Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one evolutionary
> step further.

An interesting point of view. It's like saying that C++ takes C one
evolutionary step further. But it isn't true: C++ is a wholly new
language, though shackled with some of the anachronisms of C. C# is
similarly an improvement on Java but still shackled with some of its
anachronisms.

Now, for a really interesting .NET language, I suggest people should
take a look at F#.
<http://research.microsoft.com/projects/ilx/fsharp.aspx>


Alwyn

Steven O. <null@null.com> wrote:

>I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
>know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
>coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
>Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
>available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
>easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 
No, but that is mainly because Visual Basic has almost no run-time
layout management. It is easy to show the fixed layout in the VB IDE
but you pay for it when the user resizes the form at run-time.
>
>Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
>or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
>same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
>code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
>create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
>the code that makes it work.
You may find it easier to design the forms in a program designed only
for that purpose and which is not a complete IDE. I don't know
anything about them but there a several available and most of them
produce some output that can be used directly by a programmer in the
IDE of their choice.  
>  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
>there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.  
>
>I visited Sun's site, and it *appears* they've discontinued all their
>personal and student versions (unless I missed something),
Sun tools are based on NetBeans (www.netbeans.org) which is free and
open source. It has an excellent drag and drop GUI builder. You can
still get an old edition of Sun One free at
http://jsecom16d.sun.com/ECom/EComActionServlet?StoreId=8&PartDetailId=FJCI9-401-TL9M&TransactionId=try&LMLoadBalanced=
but it would only be useful if you wanted to take advantage of Sun's
free web based training. There would be very little extra to learn to
upgrade from Sun One to the latest NetBeans.
> and I can't
>afford $1000+ for the tools I did see.  Borland still has the JBuilder
>"Foundation" version, for free -- can anyone tell me how user-friendly
>that is?
If you are used to Visual Basic then I think that you will find
JBuilder the easiest transition of the unrestricted, free IDE's.
>
>Please let me know what you can recommend.  I can be contacted
>directly via e-mail, if you visit the Web site in my Sig, below.
>Thanks in advance for all replies.
>
>Steve O.
>
>"Spying On The College Of Your Choice" -- How to pick the college that is the Best Match for a high school student's needs.
>www.SpyingOnTheCollegeOfYourChoice.com

On 12.09.2004 22:28 Corey Murtagh wrote:
> If you're willing to go to Java there are a few free IDEs that might be
> useful, but I don't know if any of them come with a GUI designer.
> Perhaps one of the friendly Java people could assist with that.

NetBeans comes with a GUI designer and Eclipse has one in pre-relase state (AFAIK)

Thomas

Corey Murtagh <emonk@slingshot.no.uce> wrote in message news:<1095102642.901780@ftpsrv1>...
> Steven O. wrote:
> 
> > I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping. I
> > know how to use Visual Basic, but since a lot of software is being
> > coded in Java or C++, I'd like to learn a Java or C++ -based tool.
> > Back when I took my Java and C++ classes (two or three years ago), the
> > available tools -- at least the ones I could find -- were still not as
> > easy, not as "drag-and-drop", as Visual Basic. Has that changed? 
> > 
> > Is there some software out there that I could use, maybe some Borland
> > or Sun product, that makes it very easy to design a basic GUI?  The
> > same tool could almost surely be used to build the behind-the-scenes
> > code as well, but I'd leave that to pros.  I just want to be able to
> > create screen mockups of the GUI, and let someone else actually build
> > the code that makes it work.  Ideally, I'd like to find a tool where
> > there is a "Personal" edition that's free, or very, very cheap.  
> 
> Try Borland Delphi or Borland C++ Builder.  They used to do a Personal 
> Edition that you could download and use for free... couldn't add any 
> third-party components to it, couldn't run programs outside the IDE, 
> etc. but good for getting an idea about the whole thing.

I don't think Delphi 6 PE is really crippled in any way.  it can
produce an .exe and can use components.  it just lacks some of the
features (and VCL extras) that come with pro versions, and the license
to produce for-sale software. i don't think it's available now though.
 D7 did the rounds on the cover-cd of a limited number of computer
magazines a couple of years ago too.

> If you're willing to go to Java there are a few free IDEs that might be 
> useful, but I don't know if any of them come with a GUI designer. 
> Perhaps one of the friendly Java people could assist with that.

i think netbeans does this.

"Alwyn" <dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:130920041428190982%dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid...
> In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian
> <aa@aa.aa> wrote:
>
> > "Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
> > news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> > > I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping.
> >
> > Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one
evolutionary
> > step further.
>
> An interesting point of view. It's like saying that C++ takes C one
> evolutionary step further. But it isn't true: C++ is a wholly new
> language,

<Snips>

> Alwyn

That is not what Stroustrup said. See his Preface
to the First Edition. He calls it a "superset" of C :)

"Francis Glassborow" <francis@robinton.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0gmS22Az1WRBFwzm@robinton.demon.co.uk...
> In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa>
> writes
> >
> >"Steven O." <null@null.com> wrote in message
> >news:vd99k0l9vg79nr2ogupptu6f05sf39afhm@4ax.com...
> >> I am seeking some kind of tool that I can use for GUI prototyping.
> >
> >Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one
evolutionary
> >step further.
> >
>
> LOL. That isn't even Microsoft's view, they are spending both time and
> money on getting an ECMA standard for a number of extensions to C++ so
> that it will be easier to use as .NET authoring language. The main
> reason for that effort is that their technical people believe that C++
> is essentially a more powerful general purpose language.

When you study C++.NET, it is like a hybrid between C++ and C#. If you
look at the support for both languages (C++.NET and C#.NET) you will
find that C++.NET is very much less supported by MSDN, making it quite
difficult to work with at times.

It is a pity that this ng is so doggedly fixated on C and C++ and doesn't
also
include C# in it's scope. There are some very intersting comparisons to make
between C++ and C# which would deepen the understanding of both C++
and C#.

It seems to me that this ng is sociologically a tgihtly knit group, with all
the
consequences of that, like many rules and outgroup-depreciation, thereby
myopically losing sight of both the splendours and shortcomings of C++.

(What on earth is LOL? A lolly without a Ly? So a ly is a stick ? A lipop
lady?)

In article <89603$4146b71a$3e15a474$31571@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa> 
writes
>That is not what Stroustrup said. See his Preface
>to the First Edition. He calls it a "superset" of C :)

When that book was written there wasn't even a Standard C. I think that 
what was written 20 years ago has, in this case, little real value as 
evidence of anything other than that things change.


-- 
Francis Glassborow      ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects

In article <89603$4146b71a$3e15a474$31571@freeler.nl>, Adrian
<aa@aa.aa> wrote:
> 
> "Alwyn" <dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:130920041428190982%dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid...
> > In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian
> > <aa@aa.aa> wrote:
> >
> > > Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one
> evolutionary
> > > step further.
> >
> > An interesting point of view. It's like saying that C++ takes C one
> > evolutionary step further. But it isn't true: C++ is a wholly new
> > language,
> 
> That is not what Stroustrup said. See his Preface
> to the First Edition. He calls it a "superset" of C :)

Did he say that? I think the original C with Classes may have been a
superset of C, as is indeed also Objective-C, but I very much doubt
that C++ was that even then. Since then, of course, C++ has moved even
further away from its parent - some would say too far.

In the meantime, C has been pursuing its own evolution, sometimes in
the same direction as C++, sometimes away from it.

But to come back to your original statement, I would still maintain
that C# is derived from Java and has little to do with C++, apart from
certain syntactical similarities - I suppose a Chomskyan might call
that 'surface structure'. I don't know an awful lot about .NET, but I
see no reason why C# and C++ cannot peacefully coexist within it, each
doing what it does best. In the case of C++, I imagine that would be
the lower-level stuff, the 'glue' if you like, and maybe also
applications where performance is of the essence.


Alwyn

"Francis Glassborow" <francis@robinton.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MNkMduD67rRBFwm5@robinton.demon.co.uk...
> In article <89603$4146b71a$3e15a474$31571@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa>
> writes
> >That is not what Stroustrup said. See his Preface
> >to the First Edition. He calls it a "superset" of C :)
>
> When that book was written there wasn't even a Standard C. I think that
> what was written 20 years ago has, in this case, little real value as
> evidence of anything other than that things change.
>
>
> -- 
> Francis Glassborow      ACCU
> Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
> For project ideas and contributions:
http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects

Oh dear.

"Alwyn" <dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:140920041303157454%dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid...
> In article <89603$4146b71a$3e15a474$31571@freeler.nl>, Adrian
> <aa@aa.aa> wrote:
> >
> > "Alwyn" <dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:130920041428190982%dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid...
> > > In article <e920b$41454811$3e15a39c$11038@freeler.nl>, Adrian
> > > <aa@aa.aa> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Use C# and solve your C++ limitation problems. It takes C++ one
> > evolutionary
> > > > step further.
> > >
> > > An interesting point of view. It's like saying that C++ takes C one
> > > evolutionary step further. But it isn't true: C++ is a wholly new
> > > language,
> >
> > That is not what Stroustrup said. See his Preface
> > to the First Edition. He calls it a "superset" of C :)
>
> Did he say that? I think the original C with Classes may have been a
> superset of C, as is indeed also Objective-C, but I very much doubt
> that C++ was that even then. Since then, of course, C++ has moved even
> further away from its parent - some would say too far.
>
> In the meantime, C has been pursuing its own evolution, sometimes in
> the same direction as C++, sometimes away from it.
>
> But to come back to your original statement, I would still maintain
> that C# is derived from Java and has little to do with C++, apart from
> certain syntactical similarities - I suppose a Chomskyan might call
> that 'surface structure'. I don't know an awful lot about .NET, but I
> see no reason why C# and C++ cannot peacefully coexist within it, each
> doing what it does best. In the case of C++, I imagine that would be
> the lower-level stuff, the 'glue' if you like, and maybe also
> applications where performance is of the essence.
>
>
> Alwyn

Hi Alwyn,

You seem te be well informed. As you will also know C++.NET (which
I wouldn't advise anybody to use) and C# can be used side by side. So
indeed both can be used for what they can do best.

Regards,
Adrian.

In article <7a39$4146e0d6$3e159d5f$1153@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa> 
writes
>http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects
>
>Oh dear.

If you are referring to the loss of the use of the CSS when viewed with 
browsers such as Mozilla, that typo is being fixed (because someone 
actually drew my attention to it -- the pages display fine in the 
browsers I tested and no one can test on all.


-- 
Francis Glassborow      ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects

In article <669ab$4146e276$3e159d5f$1228@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa>
wrote:

> As you will also know C++.NET (which
> I wouldn't advise anybody to use) and C# can be used side by side.

This is not the first time I have heard bad things said about C++.NET.
Myself, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the
other, but I do hope it will improve over time. I'm no fan of
Microsoft, but their .NET initiative is an interesting development
which may shape the future history of computing.


Alwyn

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:45:23 +0100, Alwyn <dt015a1979@mac.com.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <669ab$4146e276$3e159d5f$1228@freeler.nl>, Adrian <aa@aa.aa>
>wrote:
>This is not the first time I have heard bad things said about C++.NET.
>Myself, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the
>other, but I do hope it will improve over time. I'm no fan of
>Microsoft, but their .NET initiative is an interesting development
>which may shape the future history of computing.
>Alwyn


Alwyn,

As a reference for you... the college I attend has switched over to
teaching VB.NET but continues to teach C++ 6.0. I asked why that was
and the professor had nothing nice to say about C++.NET. I also
noticed that they are starting a C# class, but they are keeping
C++.NET. 

I have C++ 6.0 experiance and am currently studying Java. As to which
one I like better, no idea yet. I am REALLY enjoying Java though. More
than I did when I started C++ or Pascal (in the old days). LOL

In article <1frmk0lo5jmor7re8cvdhdgml4kumr7huh@4ax.com>, da Vinci 
<blank@blank.com> writes
>Alwyn,
>
>As a reference for you... the college I attend has switched over to
>teaching VB.NET but continues to teach C++ 6.0. I asked why that was
>and the professor had nothing nice to say about C++.NET. I also
>noticed that they are starting a C# class, but they are keeping
>C++.NET.

And exactly what is wrong with actually teaching C++ with a compiler 
that is close to conforming (such as VC++ 7.1) rather than using an 
ancient (pre release of standard) C++ compiler.

-- 
Francis Glassborow      ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.spellen.org/youcandoit/projects

Francis Glassborow <francis@robinton.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<O2P8jwCfuATBFwk2@robinton.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <1frmk0lo5jmor7re8cvdhdgml4kumr7huh@4ax.com>, da Vinci 
> <blank@blank.com> writes
> >Alwyn,
> >
> >As a reference for you... the college I attend has switched over to
> >teaching VB.NET but continues to teach C++ 6.0. I asked why that was
> >and the professor had nothing nice to say about C++.NET. I also
> >noticed that they are starting a C# class, but they are keeping
> >C++.NET.
> 
> And exactly what is wrong with actually teaching C++ with a compiler 
> that is close to conforming (such as VC++ 7.1) rather than using an 
> ancient (pre release of standard) C++ compiler.

to better appreciate the role of C++.NET(C++/CLI) in .NET family of
languages, follow Stanley Lippman's blog:

http://blogs.msdn.com/slippman
(murray's book(C++.NET) is also a good source)

tabrez

Francis Glassborow <francis@robinton.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<O2P8jwCfuATBFwk2@robinton.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <1frmk0lo5jmor7re8cvdhdgml4kumr7huh@4ax.com>, da Vinci 
> <blank@blank.com> writes
> >Alwyn,
> >
> >As a reference for you... the college I attend has switched over to
> >teaching VB.NET but continues to teach C++ 6.0. I asked why that was
> >and the professor had nothing nice to say about C++.NET. I also
> >noticed that they are starting a C# class, but they are keeping
> >C++.NET.
> 
> And exactly what is wrong with actually teaching C++ with a compiler 
> that is close to conforming (such as VC++ 7.1) rather than using an 
> ancient (pre release of standard) C++ compiler.

the previous post was for da vinci.

tabrez

Tabrez Iqbal wrote:
> 
... snip ...
> 
> the previous post was for da vinci.

Nonsense.  This is a newsgroup, and all posts are for all. 
Private communications belong in email.

-- 
 "This is a wonderful answer. It's off-topic, it's incorrect,
  and it doesn't answer the question."  --  Richard Heathfield

 "I support the Red Sox and any team that beats the Yankees"

CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<414C681F.9A23874F@yahoo.com>...
> Tabrez Iqbal wrote:
> > 
>  ... snip ...
> > 
> > the previous post was for da vinci.
> 
> Nonsense.  This is a newsgroup, and all posts are for all. 
> Private communications belong in email.

"for" should have been "in response to". i mistakenly replied to
francis' post instead of da vinci's.

tabrez