🚀 go-pugleaf

netvegetable wrote:
> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>
> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software. As
> a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
>
> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't believe
> we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>
> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software. We do not
> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not believe
> our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like this
> dominate the web.
>
> --
> A: Top posters
> Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet
>
> "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
> conservatives."- John Stuart Mill
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> A: Top posters
> Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet
>
> "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
> conservatives."- John Stuart Mill
********************************************
I agree. Why does the ABC promote Microsoft and
those formats that support Microsoft?

MP3, OGG, MPG etc. formats are the way to go.
We need more standard plain vanilla in our lives.
*******************************************

NUTJOB!

Benway wrote:
> netvegetable wrote:
> > Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
> >
> > A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
> > this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software. As
> > a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
> >
> > We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't believe
> > we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
> >
> > Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software. We do not
> > want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not believe
> > our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like this
> > dominate the web.
> >
> > --
> > A: Top posters
> > Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet
> >
> > "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
> > conservatives."- John Stuart Mill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > A: Top posters
> > Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet
> >
> > "Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
> > conservatives."- John Stuart Mill
> ********************************************
> I agree. Why does the ABC promote Microsoft and
> those formats that support Microsoft?
>
> MP3, OGG, MPG etc. formats are the way to go.
> We need more standard plain vanilla in our lives.
> *******************************************

The Howard/Costello regime has gone. We don't need
to remain arsewipes for neocon and corporate mates.

Let's not compound the mistake of having allowed
those bastards in the front door.

**************************

Dean Jones wrote:
> NUTJOB!

He certainly is.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:50:16 +0000, netvegetable wrote:

> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
> 
> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software.
> As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
> 
> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't believe
> we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
> 
> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software.

The ABC isn't "trying" to lock you into using proprietary software. It's 
simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants -- that is, 
news in a format that is compatible with the software pre-installed on 
their computers.

> We do not
> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not believe
> our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like this
> dominate the web.

Unfortunately for you, there probably aren't enough voters/tax-payers who 
feel the same way.

Has the ABC given a reason for stopping providing news items in MP4/WMV/
MPG formats?  And isn't WMV also a proprietary format?

A complete one.

On Jul 31, 11:44 pm, Sir John Howard <sirjohnhow...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dean Jones wrote:
> > NUTJOB!
>
> He certainly is.

Horry wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:50:16 +0000, netvegetable wrote:
> 
>> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>>
>> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
>> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software.
>> As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
>>
>> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't believe
>> we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>>
>> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software.
> 
> The ABC isn't "trying" to lock you into using proprietary software. It's 
> simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants -- that is, 
> news in a format that is compatible with the software pre-installed on 
> their computers.

There are a couple of things wrong with your statement:

How do you know what the public wants? And it's not that simple anyway - 
at the time that I buy a $500 linux PC, it's unlikely that I'll be 
thinking about the ABC's file formats. However my experience will be 
ruined when I discover it later.

On the other hand, fat PCs *do* support mp4/mpg files, so the ABC can 
reach a greater audience by adhering to open standards.

Producing content in flash is like publishing music in Apple's 
proprietary AC3 format. It locks us in to overhyped, overpriced, 
non-standard devices - and you can see the effect, a standard MP3 player 
costs around $20 whereas an iPOD costs around three times that *and* it 
won't play MP3.

The public wants functionality - and the public wants competition. 
Proprietary formats eliminate competition.


> 
>> We do not
>> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not believe
>> our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like this
>> dominate the web.
> 
> Unfortunately for you, there probably aren't enough voters/tax-payers who 
> feel the same way.

Probably? Did you take a poll?


> 
> Has the ABC given a reason for stopping providing news items in MP4/WMV/
> MPG formats?  And isn't WMV also a proprietary format?

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:19:29 +1000, B J Foster wrote:

> Horry wrote:
>> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:50:16 +0000, netvegetable wrote:
>> 
>>> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>>>
>>> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we
>>> make this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash
>>> software. As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video
>>> and news.
>>>
>>> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't
>>> believe we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>>>
>>> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software.
>> 
>> The ABC isn't "trying" to lock you into using proprietary software.
>> It's simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants --
>> that is, news in a format that is compatible with the software
>> pre-installed on their computers.
> 
> There are a couple of things wrong with your statement:
> 
> How do you know what the public wants?

No-one in his right mind would want news in a non-compatible format.

I simply assumed that most members of the public are in their right minds.

> And it's not that simple anyway -

What is "not that simple anyway"?

> at the time that I buy a $500 linux PC, it's unlikely that I'll be
> thinking about the ABC's file formats.

So what?

> However my experience will be ruined when I discover it later.

What "experience"?  Your "news listening experience"??

What percentage of computers (in Australia) are sold with Linux pre-
installed, but without Flash?

> On the other hand, fat PCs *do* support mp4/mpg files,

And Linux *does* support Flash.  You just need to download the 
appropriate software from the Internet.

> so the ABC can
> reach a greater audience by adhering to open standards.

I agree.

This is why I asked if the ABC has given a reason for stopping using non-
Flash formats.

There must be a reason behind it.

Before criticizing the ABC for relying solely on Flash, I'd like to know 
that reason.

> Producing content in flash is like publishing music in Apple's
> proprietary AC3 format.

No it's not.

> It locks us in to overhyped, overpriced,
> non-standard devices

No it doesn't.

I can play Flash just fine on my standard computer -- on software that 
didn't cost me a cent.

> - and you can see the effect, a standard MP3 player
> costs around $20 whereas an iPOD costs around three times that *and* it
> won't play MP3.

This example isn't even remotely analogous.

> The public wants functionality - and the public wants competition.
> Proprietary formats eliminate competition.

No they don't.

Even you should be able to see that there are currently several competing 
proprietary formats out there.

>>> We do not
>>> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not
>>> believe our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like
>>> this dominate the web.
>> 
>> Unfortunately for you, there probably aren't enough voters/tax-payers
>> who feel the same way.
> 
> Probably? Did you take a poll?

Do you seriously think more than 5% of the Australian population are even 
aware of the differences between proprietary and open-source media 
formats, let alone care what the ABC uses -- so long it provides content 
that is readily playable on their computers?

>> Has the ABC given a reason for stopping providing news items in
>> MP4/WMV/ MPG formats?

Before criticizing the ABC for relying solely on Flash, I'd like to know 
the answer to this.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 14:00:14 +0000, Horry wrote:

> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:50:16 +0000, netvegetable wrote:
> 
>> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>> 
>> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
>> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software.
>> As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
>> 
>> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't
>> believe we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>> 
>> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software.
> 
> The ABC isn't "trying" to lock you into using proprietary software. 

They just want us to use proprietary software to view their content. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the effect of that, is to help Adobe make 
that pty software standard for viewing video content. And the ultimate 
effect of that, for all intents and purposes, is to lock us all in.

> It's
> simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants -- that is,
> news in a format that is compatible with the software pre-installed on
> their computers.

And I don't have a problem with the content being available in that 
format. What I have a problem with is it NOT also being available in MPG 
or MCF, or any sort of format I can view with an open source player. 

> 
>> We do not
>> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not
>> believe our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like
>> this dominate the web.
> 
> Unfortunately for you, there probably aren't enough voters/tax-payers
> who feel the same way.

Well regardless of how other voters/tax-payers feel, I still think it is 
wrong that you should be forced to use proprietary software, to view 
content you've already payed for with your taxes. 

> Has the ABC given a reason for stopping providing news items in MP4/WMV/
> MPG formats?  

Not as far as I know.

> And isn't WMV also a proprietary format?

It is actually. My error.

They should provide either Matrovska, MCF, and MPEG files of all their 
video content. ogg for all their audio content. Any format that can be 
viewed with an open source player like Mplayer, or VLC.

-- 
A: Top posters
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are 
conservatives."- John Stuart Mill






-- 
A: Top posters
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are 
conservatives."- John Stuart Mill

Horry wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 00:19:29 +1000, B J Foster wrote:
> 
>> Horry wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 11:50:16 +0000, netvegetable wrote:
>>>
>>>> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>>>>
>>>> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we
>>>> make this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash
>>>> software. As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video
>>>> and news.
>>>>
>>>> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't
>>>> believe we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>>>>
>>>> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software.
>>> The ABC isn't "trying" to lock you into using proprietary software.
>>> It's simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants --
>>> that is, news in a format that is compatible with the software
>>> pre-installed on their computers.
>> There are a couple of things wrong with your statement:
>>
>> How do you know what the public wants?
> 
> No-one in his right mind would want news in a non-compatible format.
> 
> I simply assumed that most members of the public are in their right minds.

That's not what you said the first time.


> 
>> And it's not that simple anyway -
> 
> What is "not that simple anyway"?

I'll bet you mummy taught you better manners than that

> 
>> at the time that I buy a $500 linux PC, it's unlikely that I'll be
>> thinking about the ABC's file formats.
> 
> So what?

So it's not so simple - no-one thinks about video formats at the time 
that they buy a PC.


> 
>> However my experience will be ruined when I discover it later.
> 
> What "experience"?  Your "news listening experience"??
> 
> What percentage of computers (in Australia) are sold with Linux pre-
> installed, but without Flash?

Who knows? It's bad enough that 97% of desktops run fat windows. This 
sort of thing will kill the last 3%

> 
>> On the other hand, fat PCs *do* support mp4/mpg files,
> 
> And Linux *does* support Flash.  You just need to download the 
> appropriate software from the Internet.

Does the public know that?

> 
>> so the ABC can
>> reach a greater audience by adhering to open standards.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> This is why I asked if the ABC has given a reason for stopping using non-
> Flash formats.

You didn't ask.

You stated:
"It's simply providing what the vast majority of the public wants"

Yet you don't know what the public wants

Then you back-flipped with:
"I simply assumed that most members of the public are in their right minds".


> 
> There must be a reason behind it.
> 
> Before criticizing the ABC for relying solely on Flash, I'd like to know 
> that reason.

So would I

> 
>> Producing content in flash is like publishing music in Apple's
>> proprietary AC3 format.
> 
> No it's not.
> 
>> It locks us in to overhyped, overpriced,
>> non-standard devices
> 
> No it doesn't.
> 
> I can play Flash just fine on my standard computer -- on software that 
> didn't cost me a cent.

Oh great, a survey sample of one

> 
>> - and you can see the effect, a standard MP3 player
>> costs around $20 whereas an iPOD costs around three times that *and* it
>> won't play MP3.
> 
> This example isn't even remotely analogous.
> 
>> The public wants functionality - and the public wants competition.
>> Proprietary formats eliminate competition.
> 
> No they don't.
> 
> Even you should be able to see that there are currently several competing 
> proprietary formats out there.

Such as?


> 
>>>> We do not
>>>> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not
>>>> believe our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like
>>>> this dominate the web.
>>> Unfortunately for you, there probably aren't enough voters/tax-payers
>>> who feel the same way.
>> Probably? Did you take a poll?
> 
> Do you seriously think more than 5% of the Australian population are even 
> aware of the differences between proprietary and open-source media 
> formats, let alone care what the ABC uses -- so long it provides content 
> that is readily playable on their computers?

Of course not, which is why the original poster is wanting the ABC to do 
the responsible thing.

> 
>>> Has the ABC given a reason for stopping providing news items in
>>> MP4/WMV/ MPG formats?
> 
> Before criticizing the ABC for relying solely on Flash, I'd like to know 
> the answer to this.

Yes, they owe their audience an explanation.

netvegetable wrote:
> 
> 
> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files. 
> 
> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make 
> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software. As 
> a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
> 
> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't believe 
> we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
> 
> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software. We do not 
> want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not believe 
> our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like this 
> dominate the web.
> 

If your 'morally' chosen OS does not have support for Flash, then 
contact Adobe.

It might also help if you told us what OS you are using.

netvegetable <none@all.com> wrote:

> Well regardless of how other voters/tax-payers feel, I still think it is
> wrong that you should be forced to use proprietary software, to view 
> content you've already payed for with your taxes. 

... and that is the bottom line. All the arguments about what is
supplied by Microsoft to lock you into their devices don't even need to
be made. It's a matter of choice and that choice could easily be offered
by a public instrumentality like the ABC.

Rifty
-- 
riftynet - put a dot after rifty

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:32:51 +1000, Wayne. wrote:

> netvegetable wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Please return to putting up news items as mp4/wmv/mpg files.
>> 
>> A small number of us use open source operating systems. Because we make
>> this moral choice, we often don't have access to adobe flash software.
>> As a consequence, we don't have access to abc online video and news.
>> 
>> We may only be a minority, but we pay our taxes too. And I don't
>> believe we should be penalized for our ethical stance.
>> 
>> Please stop trying to lock us into using proprietary software. We do
>> not want to be beholden to software giants like Adobe, and we do not
>> believe our taxes should be going to helping foreign corporations like
>> this dominate the web.
>> 
>> 
> If your 'morally' chosen OS does not have support for Flash, then
> contact Adobe.
> 

Adobe is not accountable to me. I do not pay my taxes to Adobe. Adobe is 
a corporation, and is quite free to just ignore me, whatever I contact 
them about.

The ABC, on the other hand, is a public broadcaster, payed for by our 
taxes. And I, for one, do not believe my tax money should be helping make 
Adobe software the standard for viewing online content.

> It might also help if you told us what OS you are using.

Ubuntu linux PPC, just fyi.

-- 
A: Top posters
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are 
conservatives."- John Stuart Mill






-- 
A: Top posters
Q: What's the most annoying thing on usenet

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are 
conservatives."- John Stuart Mill