🚀 go-pugleaf

John Slade <hhitman86@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:3dp5o.33911$o27.791@newsfe08.iad: 

> On 8/1/2010 3:04 PM, Dustin wrote:
>> John Slade<hhitman86@pacbell.net>  wrote in
>> news:ILj5o.44119$4B7.2363@newsfe16.iad:
>>
>>> On 8/1/2010 8:24 AM, Dustin wrote:
>>>> John Slade<hhitman86@pacbell.net>   wrote in
>>>> news:i32s10$653$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/31/2010 4:21 PM, Dustin wrote:
>>>>>> John Slade<hhitman86@pacbell.net>    wrote in
>>>>>> news:L0p4o.32466$OU6.4877@newsfe20.iad:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/29/2010 1:40 PM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>>>>>>>> From: "John Slade"<hhitman86@pacbell.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> | On 7/29/2010 3:24 AM, David H. Lipman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> From: "John Slade"<hhitman86@pacbell.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> | On 7/27/2010 11:17 PM, RJK wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>           You should know there is malware out there that will
>>>>>>> trash the registry and it's backup. It will require some sort
>>>>>>> of reinstall to get the system back working. I found it very
>>>>>>> rare that I need to do a full reformat and reinstall because
>>>>>>> of malware. Some malware will also corrupt system files and
>>>>>>> when you remove them with scanners, it will make the
>>>>>>> installation unbootable. This is yet another reason
>>>>>>> professionals will make a backup if possible before removing
>>>>>>> infections. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What software do you use for the backup?
>>>>>
>>>>>         I will either use Acronis' or Paragon's backup software
>>>>> depending on the situation.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you storing the backup on
>>>>>> read only media or a hard drive that could fail for any reason?
>>>>>
>>>>>        You mean WORM(Write Once/Read Many) media don't you? That
>>>>> media can fail also. No media is perfect. I store the backup on
>>>>> business or enterprise grade HDs and will transfer to other
>>>>> media if the customer wants that backup. If it's a large backup
>>>>> they will have to pay me for it. Tell me what software and
>>>>> hardware would you use to backup your customer's HD before you
>>>>> start removing malware?
>>>>
>>>> I haven't heard the acronym WORM in years... Damn, you have been
>>>> around a long time. :) I was thinking of cd-r or perhaps dvd-r
>>>> material.
>>>
>>>         It would be OK for DVD-R if the backup is small. But
>>> swapping 20 or more DVDs is a pain.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It depends. When I was working at a computer shop; I'd either use
>>>> norton ghost corp edition or the hardware drive cloning device we
>>>> had at the time.
>>>
>>>         I rarely use Ghost these days, it used to be the only
>>> thing I ever used.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I really didn't see much point in cloning a malware drive
>>>> for malware removal; I wasn't stupid enough to trash my backups
>>>> of the registry or important files. besides, I wrote several
>>>> utilities to assist me in verifying various windows dll/exe files
>>>> were still intact and okay for reuse.
>>>>
>>>
>>>        Yea that's good for you, but when you're working for
>>> someone else and they have important data they want to save, I
>>> will backup. Most of the time the customer doesn't have a
>>> backup. A lot of times the customer has a HD that's five or six
>>> years old and they really need a backup done. Then there are the
>>> times when I'm working for a young person and they don't want a
>>> backup they just want the drive wiped and they want the OS
>>> installed.
>>
>> Theres your odd attitude again. What makes you think I wasn't
>> working for someone else when I did those things? Obviously since I
>> didn't own the shop, I was working for someone else.
> 
>        Well you made it sound like you were doing it for yourself.
> 
>>
>> Btw, What certifications do you presently hold? I'm just lowly
>> A+/network+ (back when that stupid thing was still considered worth
>> the paper it's printed on). Are you MCSE?
>>
> 
>        I took courses and wound up teaching an A+ class. A+ is a 
> good place to start for someone looking to get certified for 
> work at some company that requires that cert. I view the MCSE 
> certification as pretty much a money making scam. I look at MCSE 
> certifications as a joke in many cases because some courses just 

My boss paid for the tests, it just cost me some driving time. As I've 
been doing the computer thing since the trash80 series was actually new 
and hot stuff to some, I didn't really need to study for the exam. 
While tandy's computers were proprietary in nature, they had some 
things in common with cp/m and later dos machines. Besides, it beat 
tracing a grounding problem on an AT mainboard keyboard port. <G>

The shop I worked at actually fixed problems, we didn't ship to 
manufacturer or sell you a new mainboard if components could be 
replaced cheaper and still bring the system back to it's original self.
None of us were afraid of soldering pencils or precision electronics, 
everyone at the shop had a background in it. 

So, as a professional with years on me, do you replace boards or 
actually get down and dirty with them?

> "certified" people don't know a lot. Well they do know how to 
> pass that test!

I would tend to agree with that statement, based on the future 
technicians who will eventually be replacing me. :)
 
>       I don't need any of those certifications, it's a waste of 
> money.

It looks nice on paper, tho. :) I like you didn't bother to fork out 
the 2grand for the MCSE certs, I watched a friend of mine who knew next 
to nothing about computers; get MCSE inside of 3 months time. So, yea, 
I'm in complete agreement with you about them. Lots of reading, a very 
small amount of practice in the LAN I configured for him, and walla; 
MCSE certified; but doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
 
>> I'm just wondering what you mean by safer for the users data then I
>> guess. If it's a malware issue, the users data itself shouldn't be
>> affected much if at all; it's the applications and little.. extras
>> that may be of concern.
> 
>        It's not JUST the malware issue, I already explained that 
> often HDs I work on are pretty old. Also when you start cleaning 
> files the system may not boot, data may be destroyed. There are 
> lots of reasons to backup and that's what I learned over the years.

True, plenty of reasons to backup and I certainly don't disagree with 
one who is strict with a decent backup policy; I just don't really see 
the need to do it for a malware removal job alone.
 
>>
>>>> I understand. It just seemed as if you were being a wiseass
>>>> towards David, from my POV. I didn't personally see any need in
>>>> doing that. We can all be professional and civil here.
>>>
>>>       David was being a wiseass himself and I can understand why
>>> he didn't respond. He seemed worried about losing data by simply
>>> removing the system restore points so I naturally wondered why,
>>> a backup can solve this problem. I guess he realized it was a
>>> good idea so then he got snippy.
>>
>> Well, along with potentially good dlls you might want to use to
>> avoid having to reinstall; comes several stages of the systems
>> registry hives. All valuable if your into recovering the system, as
>> opposed to wiping and starting over. I see no reason to obliterate
>> the restore points right away; They still contain potentially
>> useful data to me. 
>>
> 
>        You may or may not have to delete restore points. It 
> depends on the particular malware.

I know of no malware which would force me to toss an entire restore 
point. I can just go into the folder from another system and do what 
needs to be done; without endangering said system.
 
>> What seperates some professionals from others is the ability to
>> restore the system without resorting to wiping and reloading as
>> really, anybody could do that. In many cases, not all, but many,
>> you don't have to wipe and reload the entire system to get rid of
>> the malware. 
> 
>      Yea that's why I find making a backup allows me to make a 
> mistake if removing the malware causes the installation to be 
> trashed and it does happen.

Be careful and take your time. Safety first and all that. :)
 
>> Well, I found it funny from the point of view of a former virus
>> writer turned whitehat. Does that make any sense to you?
> 
>>
>> Why would I spend the time to hide a virus in a folder, when I
>> could choose files? You could just delete me if I stored myself in
>> a folder in a binary format alone. If I reside in your files
>> instead, I'm alot harder to deal with.
> 
>        Well you could chose particular files in the restore 
> point folders, you could tell it to create a restore point and 
> infect the system files. The advantage is the malware scanner 
> will not clean it because it's a read only folder by default.

Hmm. I'm guessing you don't know how the restore functions in windows 
actually works. I'll clue you in.. If I so much as edit a 
sys/dll/com/exe file in the windows folders a restore point is 
automatically created so long as system restore is turned on. That 
restore point will backup the file before my changes are finalized on 
disk. Unless, I override system restore and do it directly.

The folder itself isn't exactly read-only by permissions alone, again, 
the resident system restore dlls keep you out; but you can still scan 
inside with it running if you do low level calls.

>>
>> It's entirely possible the individual does have a virut varient, I
>> haven't seen the sample to confirm or deny that. Based only on what
>> Ant has written up about it tho, doesn't seem to indicate virut;
>> but something possibly forked from the same original codebase.
>>
> 
>        All I remember is that the many restore points were all 
> infected with the same malware. Restore points that were there 
> before the malware was installed by the user. The malware was in 
> some pirated software that was installed a couple of days before 
> I was called.

I don't suppose you kept a sample for analysis?
-- 
"I like your Christ. I don't like your Christians. They are so unlike 
your Christ."  - author unknown.