🚀 go-pugleaf

eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.

>Please contact:
>Scott Mears

Typically Headhunters post where they should not.  I actually find it
quite annoying.  If I were looking for a job, I would post in the
jobs/help wanted newsgroups.  Me job postings posted were they do not
belong get flamed anyway.

eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>(discretely) here.

>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.

Jon,

Looking to hire? Looking to BE hired? In southern California? Want to
be in southern California?

Take a look at the "Client-Server Jobs Listing"

This service started March 1, 1996 and lists 1) companies looking to
hire, and 2) individuals looking to be hired. Do you fit into any one
of those two categories? If so, place your FREE ad there.

Not actively looking for a new job? Well, visit there anyway to get a
feel for what is available.

This listing resides here on the Internet just point your web browser
to

http://home.earthlink.net/~lesgainous/joblist.html

Once you see the format, you'll want to submit your opening right
away! You can submit your entry right on-line!

As a client-server programmer myself, I am providing this service in
order to help out my fellow colleagues in the job placement/location
process. I am gaining nothing directly from this listing. I am not in
the recruiting business. The motivating factor for this is simply to
become more involved with the Internet. As an active member with the
Orange County SQL Server User Group and the Orange County Visual Basic
User Group, I am constantly being approached by both recruiters and
individuals looking for positions. There are not enough hours in the
day to play match-maker, therefore, I'll provide the medium for all
parties involved to contact each other directly.

Thank you.

---
lesgainous@earthlink.net
Visit my Web page at http://home.earthlink.net/~lesgainous

"This message may not reflect the views of anyone or any
organization, other than myself."

In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.

Which one of the 47,253 USENET channels that you posted to are you really
interested in?

> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs
available 
> (discretely) here.

What you did is called "spamming;" it is indiscrete, and never
appreciated. It is the electronic equivalent of junk mail. If I get junk
mail with a postage-paid return  envelope, I send it back -- you are
likely to get lots of negative reactions to your "spam."

On the other hand, if you have a job that applies to any *one* of the
47,253 groups you spammed, the people in that group are likely to be
interested.

 : Jan Steinman <mailto:Jan@Bytesmiths.com>
 : Bytesmiths, the Smalltalk specialists <http://www.bytesmiths.com>
 : "This is witty signature 1 of 47,288."

In article <4ien04$c5b@homer.alpha.net>, tyork@lnd.com says...
>
>eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
>
>>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to 
show you 
>>exactly for what I want to hire you.
>
>>Please contact:
>>Scott Mears
>
>Typically Headhunters post where they should not.  I actually find it
>quite annoying.  If I were looking for a job, I would post in the
>jobs/help wanted newsgroups.  Me job postings posted were they do not
>belong get flamed anyway.
>
IMHO, if it is a COBOL job, it is appropriate here. Your opinion may 
vary and I will vigorously defend your right to be wrong :-)>

tyork@lnd.com (Tom York) wrote:

>eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>>exactly for what I want to hire you.

>>Please contact:
>>Scott Mears

>Typically Headhunters post where they should not.  I actually find it
>quite annoying.  If I were looking for a job, I would post in the
>jobs/help wanted newsgroups.  Me job postings posted were they do not
>belong get flamed anyway.

********** SPAMMIC CROSS POST ALERT **********
The above message is crosposted to more than 40 news groups:

alt.comp
aol.computers
aol.computer
alt.comp.borland-delphi
comp
comp.binaries.ibm
comp.binaries.wanted
comp.database.ingres
comp.database.oracle
comp.databases.ibm-db2
comp.databases.informix
comp.databases.ms-access
comp.databases.oracle
comp.databases.progress
omp.databases.rdb
comp.databases.sybase
comp.dcom.cabling
comp.dcom.isdn
comp.dcom.lans
comp.dcom.lans.ethernet
comp.dcom.lans.novell
comp.dcom.servers
comp.dcom.sys.cisco
comp.dcom.sys.wellfleet
comp.groupware.lotus-notes.misc
comp.ibm
comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix
comp.lang.basic.visual
comp.lang.basic.visual.misc
comp.lang.c
comp.lang.c++
comp.lang.cobol
comp.lang.pascal.delphi.misc
comp.lang.perl
comp.lang.smalltalk
comp.os.ms-windows.networking.misc
comp.os.ms-windows.nt
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.misc
comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.ole
comp.os.ms-windows.win95.misc
comp.soft-sys.nextstep

I actually don't mind seeing those job postings, as long as they are
not, like this message, cross posted to ALL the groups.

--
Weiqi Gao
weiqigao@crl.com

eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>(discretely) here.

>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.

>Please contact:
>Scott Mears

>scott@exic.com

>http://www.exic.com 

I don't mind.

Keshava

keshava@nando.net (Keshava Best) wrote:

>eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>>(discretely) here.

>>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>>exactly for what I want to hire you.

>>Please contact:
>>Scott Mears

>>scott@exic.com

>>http://www.exic.com 

>I don't mind.

>Keshava


Go for it!


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
email:	ceridgac@indirect.com
site:	http://www.indirect.com/www/ceridgac/index.html
NTSite:	http://www.indirect.com/www/ceridgac/ntsite.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jon M. Ferns wrote:
> 
> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> (discretely) here.
> 
> I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you
> exactly for what I want to hire you.
> 
> Please contact:
> Scott Mears
> 
> scott@exic.com
> 
> http://www.exic.comYES

eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>(discretely) here.

I like seeing job listings here. It helps me keep up with the market.
And who knows, I might find "the job of a lifetime".

On the other hand, you posted to a lot of news groups. You don't seem
really focused to me.

Conrad


                     Conrad and Nora Muller
      Southeast Micro Support and Alaska Document Services
         muller@alaska.net     www.alaska.net/~muller
              411 12th Street, Juneau, AK 99801
                       907-586-5030

Tom York wrote:
> 
> eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
> 
> >I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you
> >exactly for what I want to hire you.
> 
> >Please contact:
> >Scott Mears
> 
> Typically Headhunters post where they should not.  I actually find it
> quite annoying.  If I were looking for a job, I would post in the
> jobs/help wanted newsgroups.  Me job postings posted were they do not
> belong get flamed anyway.


I do mind, if you would like to discuss Microsoft Access, this is the 
place, otherwise don't go away mad but do go away.

Fred S. Hunt

I concur...post away but target your postings.  The job market is so
volatile these days, and seeing job postings for Delphi or other
developers is pleasant to the eye.  :)

muller@alaska.net (Conrad E. Muller) wrote:

>eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:

>>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>>(discretely) here.

>I like seeing job listings here. It helps me keep up with the market.
>And who knows, I might find "the job of a lifetime".

>On the other hand, you posted to a lot of news groups. You don't seem
>really focused to me.

>Conrad


>                     Conrad and Nora Muller
>      Southeast Micro Support and Alaska Document Services
>         muller@alaska.net     www.alaska.net/~muller
>              411 12th Street, Juneau, AK 99801
>                       907-586-5030


Steve Magruder
   Prudential Service Bureau, Inc.

In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
|> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
|> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
|> (discretely) here.

  Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
consider job postings off topic.

  If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.

|> Scott Mears

    Bob
-- 
Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97

blockd@dsmnet.com (Dennis Block) writes:
>IMHO, if it is a COBOL job, it is appropriate here. Your opinion may 
>vary and I will vigorously defend your right to be wrong :-)>

It may be a COBOL job or a C one (I am reading this in comp.lang.c)
its place is not here but in the misc.jobs hierarchy. What do you
think these newsgroups have been founded for?

h.f.s.
--
Hans Friedrich Steffani
Institut fuer Elektrische Maschinen und Antriebe
TU Chemnitz-Zwickau
e-mail: hans.steffani@e-technik.tu-chemnitz.de

Bob Peterson wrote:
> 
> In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
> |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> |> (discretely) here.
> 
>   Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
> to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
> consider job postings off topic.
> 
>   If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
> the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.
> 
> |> Scott Mears
> 
>     Bob
> --
> Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
> Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
> P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
> Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97


Doesn't matter much to me.  It would improve the signal quality of most newsgroups.  
At least he asked first.

Joey.

Since this is a Lotus Notes newsgroup, you should be able to post 
positions that require expertise in Lotus Notes.

My concern is with blanket postings, such as yours, that clutter the 
newsgroup areas. 

GLD  

Since this is a Lotus Notes newsgroup, you should be able to post jobs 
requiring expertise in Lotus Notes.  I see no problem with this, as 
long as you don't mass post your job openings portfolio, you may be ok.  
 

GLD

Taken from Jon M. Ferns's log...
>
>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs 
available 
>(discretely) here.
>
>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show 
you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.

   Not a chance!  You posted this to over FOURTY god damn groups!  If you have 
a Lotus Notes job, then post it in the Lotus Notes group, sure.  But we will 
NOT put up with ads for every other type of computer job under the sun in 
these groups!  Just like the cobol folks dont want to hear about jobs related 
to Lotus Notes!  Either target your ads to the individual groups where they 
are most relavent, or take them to the general Jobs groups and leave it at 
that.

-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|Glenn A. Thibert           | Lotus Notes Administrator  |
|Monsanto Co.               | Trekker Extraordinaire     |
|gathib@camlot.monsanto.com | Helluva Guy                |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

Joey Blankenship wrote:
> 
> Bob Peterson wrote:
> >
> > In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
> > |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> > |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> > |> (discretely) here.
> >
> >   Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
> > to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
> > consider job postings off topic.
> >
> >   If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
> > the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.
> >
> > |> Scott Mears
> >
> >     Bob
> > --
> > Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
> > Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
> > P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
> > Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97
> 
> Doesn't matter much to me.  It would improve the signal quality of most newsgroups.
> At least he asked first.
> 
> Joey.

What would more likely happen is that this subject-matter newsgroup would 
be flooded with job-wanted ads and other advertising so that we couldn't 
find the information that we come here for!

Job-wanted ads belong in their own newsgroups, NOT HERE!

John

In article <314EE893.17F9@piedmont.net>,
Joey Blankenship  <joey.blankenship@piedmont.net> wrote:
>Bob Peterson wrote:
>> 
>> In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
>> |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
>> |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
>> |> (discretely) here.
>> 

I'm less concerned with the subject matter than with the crosspostings.

The charter for comp.groupware.lotus-notes.misc includes job postings
(obviously for Notes related jobs) as being permitted.   


-- 
Dick Gill                                dick@gp.com
Gill & Piette                            Dick Gill @ Gill & Piette @ Notes Net 
1568 Spring Hill Road, McLean, VA 22102  (703)761-1163
          Growing old is the only way to live a long time.  Dad 1906-

In article <4imtum$42g@tin.monsanto.com> gathib@camlot.monsanto.com (Glenn A Thibert) writes:

>Taken from Jon M. Ferns's log...
>>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs 
>available 
>>(discretely) here.
>   Not a chance!  You posted this to over FOURTY god damn groups!  If you have 
>a Lotus Notes job, then post it in the Lotus Notes group, sure.  But we will 
>NOT put up with ads for every other type of computer job under the sun in 
>these groups!  Just like the cobol folks dont want to hear about jobs related 
>to Lotus Notes!  Either target your ads to the individual groups where they 
>are most relavent, or take them to the general Jobs groups and leave it at 
>that.


This, I think, is typical.  The problem is frankly that Internet goes all over 
the world and does so indiscriminately.  The companies that flood the Internet 
with computer-generated postings "FL-DC-POWERBUILDER..." are painfully obvious 
and annoying.

What you should do instead is to set up a Web page and invite people to browse 
your listings if they want to.  Perhaps you can set up a system where 
interested parties fill out an electronic form and send information to you, so 
that your coffers are full and you can send out more specific reminder- 
messages to INDIVIDUALS when a particular request comes over the transom to 
you.

Another thing to consider is, what are you going to DO with the resume that 
comes in from Taiwan, when you're in Kentucky USA?  :-/  You can be sure 
you'll get them, and from Podunk Timbuktu as well.  

A scatter-shot approach to recruiting is painfully easy to do on the Internet 
... but painful to receive!  A more sophisticated approach is also possible and 
that's what you need to do.

/mr/

George D. wrote:
> 
> Since this is a Lotus Notes newsgroup, you should be able to post
> positions that require expertise in Lotus Notes.
> 
> My concern is with blanket postings, such as yours, that clutter the
> newsgroup areas.
> 
> GLD

Yes! I'm reading about Lotus Notes newsgroup policies in 
comp.dcom.isdn!

John

If I wanted to check the charter of a newsgroup, where would I find it?  
Like the person who originated the question, I also wonder about posting 
jobs to this newsgroup.  (I have a TON of business/clients with Lotus 
Notes projects.

Tricia Dolkas
Lloyd Ritter Consulting
Maountain View, California

In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel. 
 
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs 
available 
>(discretely) here.
>
>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show 
you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.
>
>Please contact:
>Scott Mears
>
>scott@exic.com
>
>http://www.exic.com 

Thank you for asking but I would prefer you did not post, at least to the dcom 
newsgroups.  I feel the majority of subscribers in these groups are trying 
valiantly to keep up with an ever-changing technology and do not need/want to 
waste our time sorting through want ads.  There is an appropriate place for 
your job postings to go; put them there.  By posting in these newsgroups, you 
and the tens of thousands of other technical headhunters who follow your 
example will pollute these newsgroups to the point they are rendered useless 
to us all.

> eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
> 
> >My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET
channel.  
> >I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs
available 
> >(discretely) here.
> 
> >I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to
show you 
> >exactly for what I want to hire you.

I'm very much in favor of job postings on the net.  You think they're
obnoxious until you need a job - then they can be a lifesaver.  Also, I
like to see them even when I'm not actively seeking new employment - so
posting to a technical group is ok with me.

However, I'd prefer the posting to be very brief - something like:

NT Administrator wanted in the Jackson Hole Wyoming, $150k - $250k.  see
http://blah.blah.blah for more information.  

(now that would be the job of a lifetime).

--
Randy Wood (Randy.Wood@nau.edu)   "The problem is that common sense
Computing Technology Services      isn't all that common."
Northern Arizona University        
P.O. Box 5100                      PH: 520-523-8991
Flagstaff, AZ  86011               http://www.nau.edu/~rwood

>>>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
<snip>
>>>exactly for what I want to hire you.
This is a bit of a laugh, when you have a look at the number of
cross-postings this guy has. He is hardly targeting *a* newsgroup, I
count more then twenty. And given the broad range of newsgroups,
(databases, cabling, programming and programing languages, groupware
etc....] he would be a headhunter/jobs agency looking to get into a
new area. 

Joey Blankenship wrote:
> 
> Bob Peterson wrote:
> >
> > In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
> > |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> > |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> > |> (discretely) here.
> >
> >   Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
> > to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
> > consider job postings off topic.
> >
> >   If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
> > the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.
> >
> > |> Scott Mears
> >
> >     Bob
> > --
> > Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
> > Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
> > P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
> > Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97
> 
> Doesn't matter much to me.  It would improve the signal quality of most newsgroups.
> At least he asked first.
> 
> Joey.Job advertising related to NT should be allowed in my opinion.

Randy Wood wrote:
> 
> > eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
> >
> > >My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET
> channel.
> > >I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs
> available
> > >(discretely) here.
> >
> > >I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to
> show you
> > >exactly for what I want to hire you.
> 
> I'm very much in favor of job postings on the net.  You think they're
> obnoxious until you need a job - then they can be a lifesaver.  Also, I
> like to see them even when I'm not actively seeking new employment - so
> posting to a technical group is ok with me.
> 
> However, I'd prefer the posting to be very brief - something like:
> 
> NT Administrator wanted in the Jackson Hole Wyoming, $150k - $250k.  see
> http://blah.blah.blah for more information.
> 
> (now that would be the job of a lifetime).
> 
> --
> Randy Wood (Randy.Wood@nau.edu)   "The problem is that common sense
> Computing Technology Services      isn't all that common."
> Northern Arizona University
> P.O. Box 5100                      PH: 520-523-8991
> Flagstaff, AZ  86011               http://www.nau.edu/~rwood


I personally dont like seeing want ads in this newsgroup. I come here
for exchanging notes and information on the features and nuances of the
language. I`d look elsewhere if i was looking for a job. It would do you
better to post in such sites where people, who are looking for jobs,
usually visit.

-- 
/Tharuna

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

# L , 1617 SPARTAN VLG
EAST LANSING                                    VOICE: (517) 355 - 9811
MI 48823                                   email:
niranjan@arctic.cps.msu.edu
                url: http://web.cps.msu.edu/~niranjan

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Expose yourself to your deepest fear;
after that, fear has no power and the fear of freedom
shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

   Jim Morrison

Jon M. Ferns wrote:
> 
> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> (discretely) here.
> 

It is not apropriate to post job ads in these newsgroups. Some reasons:

1. Their topics are _not_ intended for job hunting related ads (read FAQs);

2. Articles in these groups are distributed _worldwide_ while you do local or
   nationwide hiring at best;

3. Groups like comp.lang.c++ get over 200 messages per day. This is high enough
   not to want any more unrelated stuff.

Regards,

Anatoli.

Listen everyone. Listen carefully.

This is crossposted to a very large number of newsgroups. I personally am
seeing it in comp.lang.perl, where it is totally swamping the normal low
traffic in the group, which now consists of this thread and an equally
irrelevant one about Jarvis Cocker and Pulp.

While I have no objection to seeing a short job ad for Perl programmers in
comp.lang.perl, the problem with a mass crossposting is that most people
who reply don't bother to trim the newsgroup list. I'm therefore seeing
lots of replies that say 'Yes, it's OK in this newsgroup', or 'No, not here
thanks', without any indication of where 'here' or 'this newsgroup' is.
Not helpful, and no use at all to anyone who isn't in the intended group.

Most of the groups that this is being cross-posted to couldn't care less
what Lotus Notes users think about this posting, but we're getting to hear
anyway. Half the posters are quoting the whole of the original message, which
isn't making things any easier.

Please trim the newsgroup list when you reply to any message in this thread.
Don't just hit 'follow-up' without thinking.

To the original poster: cross-posting your message wasn't in itself a bad idea,
but it has caused problems. Perhaps it might be better to target your next
posting to specific newsgroups for specific jobs.

(This message was from comp.lang.perl, but I thought I'd broadcast it
generally, because it applies to everyone that this thread is being
cross-posted to).

-- 
David Matthewman                       david@cconcepts.co.uk/david@xara.com
import std.disclaimer.Xara; // "Never tell the same lie twice" - Garak, DS9

vamk@qni.com wrote:
> 
> Joey Blankenship wrote:
> >
> > Bob Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
> > > |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> > > |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> > > |> (discretely) here.
> > >
> > >   Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
> > > to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
> > > consider job postings off topic.
> > >
> > >   If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
> > > the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.
> > >
> > > |> Scott Mears
> > >
> > >     Bob
> > > --
> > > Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
> > > Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
> > > P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
> > > Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97
> >
> > Doesn't matter much to me.  It would improve the signal quality of most newsgroups.
> > At least he asked first.
> >
> > Joey.Job advertising related to NT should be allowed in my opinion.

In most (or all) of the newsgroups the answer is 'NO'.
I have not seen a mail from Jon in a long time.
So I think he knows the answer already.
 
Vince
-- 
All of the opinions expressed in this E-mail are my own,
my employers can jolly well find their own.

Please contact me via: vin@anon.penet.fi

Steve Magruder wrote:
> 
> I concur...post away but target your postings.  The job market is so
> volatile these days, and seeing job postings for Delphi or other
> developers is pleasant to the eye.  :)

NO NO NO NO, NO!

Did you look at the list of newsgroups this was posted to?  Not ONE has
"jobs" in it.  However, a quick grep of my .newsrc file shows the
following groups with "job" somewhere in their name:

alt.job.gooley
biz.jobs.offered
ibm.neregion.jobrot
misc.jobs
misc.jobs.contract
misc.jobs.misc
misc.jobs.offered
misc.jobs.offered.entry
misc.jobs.resumes
alt.job.ken-johnson
alt.medical.sales.jobs.offered
alt.medical.sales.jobs.resumes
ibm.ibmunix.jobsched
linux.jobs
mn.jobs
misc.jobs.fields.chemistry

Employment related postings belong in one of these groups, not in a
language discussion group such as comp.lang.c++.  I don't want to wade
through useless job postings for windoze or oracle or Delphi etc., I
want C++ language/programming issues.  If I want to read job listings,
I'll go to one of the groups listed above.  I'd suggest that if you or
anyone else wants to see job postings, look there also.  Please do not
encourage more people to post off-topic trash in comp.lang.c++ (or any
other groups).


-- 

Phil Staite, (507) 253-2529, team OS/2
internet: pstaite@vnet.ibm.com  internal: pstaite@rchland

In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net says...
>
>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET 
channel.  
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs 
available 
>(discretely) here.
>
>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to 
show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.
>
>Please contact:
>Scott Mears
>
>scott@exic.com
>
>http://www.exic.com 

To Mr Ferns:

I don't have a real problem with job postings IF AND ONLY IF they are 
posted ONLY to the APPROPRIATE newsgroups!  This message is 
cross-posted EVERYWHERE and relates to very few, if any, of the 
newsgroups to which it is posted.  (I'll be civil here) Please don't 
post this kind of cross-posted CRAP again!!!

To others responding to the original post:

DON'T!!!  Your response is cross-posted to all the groups that the 
original article was posted to.  Just let this thread DIE!!  (Yes I 
know that this post is cross-posted as well, but maybe this thread will 
DIE with this post.)

-- 
Regards,                        Computer consulting:
Eric Drews                      - Custom applications
Drews Enterprises               - Data conversion & manipulation
908 665 2513                    - Hardware assistance
drewsxer@superlink.net          - Using Pick-based systems & Delphi
No application is _too_ small

Randy.Wood@nau.edu (Randy Wood) writes:

>I'm very much in favor of job postings on the net.  You think they're
>obnoxious until you need a job - then they can be a lifesaver.  Also, I
>like to see them even when I'm not actively seeking new employment - so
>posting to a technical group is ok with me.

If you like job anouncements read the apropriate groups.

h.f.s.
[To which group should I forward?]
--
Hans Friedrich Steffani
Institut fuer Elektrische Maschinen und Antriebe
TU Chemnitz-Zwickau
e-mail: hans.steffani@e-technik.tu-chemnitz.de

John P. Ellott wrote:
> 
> Joey Blankenship wrote:
> >
> > Bob Peterson wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
> > > |> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.
> > > |> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available
> > > |> (discretely) here.
> > >
> > >   Yes, I mind.  The misc.jobs* newsgroup hierarchy exists specifically
> > > to contain postings related to job.  The newsgroups you crossposted to
> > > consider job postings off topic.
> > >
> > >   If in doubt, check the newsgroup charter.  If still in doubt, check
> > > the "Where to post" and "Advertising on Usenet" FAQs.
> > >
> > > |> Scott Mears
> > >
> > >     Bob
> > > --
> > > Bob Peterson             Work: peterson@csc.ti.com              Expressway Site
> > > Texas Instruments        Home: peterson@mail.zgnews.com         North Building
> > > P.O. Box 655474, MS238   TIMSG: RWP     Voice: +1 214 995 6080  Aisle A4
> > > Dallas, Tx USA 75265     Fido:1:124/5148  FAX: +1 214 995 0304  2-88V97
> >
> > Doesn't matter much to me.  It would improve the signal quality of most newsgroups.
> > At least he asked first.
> >
> > Joey.
> 
> What would more likely happen is that this subject-matter newsgroup would
> be flooded with job-wanted ads and other advertising so that we couldn't
> find the information that we come here for!
> 
> Job-wanted ads belong in their own newsgroups, NOT HERE!
> 
> JohnI don't mind seeing job postings, as it gives me an indication of where 
the market is heading.  However, I am concerned about you posting 
positions for many different skill sets in a Windows NT news group.  You 
should place specific skill postings in a specific group.  (ie -Only 
Windows NT admin jobs should be in the Win NT admin Newsgroup.  I should 
not have to wade through postings for smalltalk,  C++, etc in a NT 
newsgroup.

In article <4imjvr$eka@superb.csc.ti.com>, peterson@csc.ti.com (Bob Peterson) wrote:
>In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) writes:
>|> My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel.  
>|> I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>|> (discretely) here.
>
I don't know about news group charters, but I like seeing jobs posted in
this news group.  As long as the title clearly states that it is a job
posting and the job is relevant to the news group I am willing to put up
with the extra news group traffic.

I am not interested in changing jobs so I don't subscribe to the news
groups that list jobs, but the position openings give me a flavor of
where I stand and what the job market is like.  And, if a perfect job
match came up...

--- I am not trying to argue for posting jobs in news groups, just stating
my personal feelings.

Mason Wexler
Los Angeles, California

Taken from Malcolm Snelgrove's log...
>
>>>>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET 
channel. 
> 
><snip>
>>>>exactly for what I want to hire you.
>This is a bit of a laugh, when you have a look at the number of
>cross-postings this guy has. He is hardly targeting *a* newsgroup, I
>count more then twenty. And given the broad range of newsgroups,
>(databases, cabling, programming and programing languages, groupware
>etc....] he would be a headhunter/jobs agency looking to get into a
>new area. 

  Not only that, but the guy is a REAL jerk.  Just look at the "professional" 
reply I received from him after I posted my objection to cross posting ads to 
over fourty groups.  I'd stay clear of these folks.

From Mr. Jon Fern:

"We did not post jobs in your newsgroup, we ASKED if it were ok to do so =
in the future.  These postings would be specific and relevent to the =
group that they would be placed into.  This obviously requires that =
there first be a person of at least average intellect to understand the =
process.  Sorry that you do not qualify to recieve our postings in your =
little neck of the woods.  Thank you for your time.................asta"


-- 
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|Glenn A. Thibert           | Lotus Notes Administrator  |
|Monsanto Co.               | Trekker Extraordinaire     |
|gathib@camlot.monsanto.com | Helluva Guy                |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

In article <Randy.Wood-2003961451220001@mac1.ucc.nau.edu>, Randy Wood 
(Randy.Wood@nau.edu) says...
!>I'm very much in favor of job postings on the net.  You think they're
!>obnoxious until you need a job - then they can be a lifesaver.  Also, I
!>like to see them even when I'm not actively seeking new employment - so
!>posting to a technical group is ok with me.
!>
!>However, I'd prefer the posting to be very brief - something like:
!>
!>NT Administrator wanted in the Jackson Hole Wyoming, $150k - $250k.  
!see
!>http://blah.blah.blah for more information.  
!>
!>(now that would be the job of a lifetime).
!>
Is that per month or per annum?

-- 
Kind reGards
     \ /   |
      X    |
     / \   s
     Gerard

In article <4ipcie$5et@ns2.mainstreet.net>, Tricia@lrc.com says...
>
>If I wanted to check the charter of a newsgroup, where would I find it?  
>Like the person who originated the question, I also wonder about posting 
>jobs to this newsgroup.  (I have a TON of business/clients with Lotus 
>Notes projects.
>
>Tricia Dolkas
>Lloyd Ritter Consulting
>Maountain View, California

I do NOT want to post jobs here but am very curious about this 
newsgroup charter and FAQ's for comp.databases.oracle. If anyone
is forwarding either of these to Tricia, please forward to me as well
Thanks 
Babette Dale underwood (dale@fox.nstn.ca)

Scott Mears wrote:

>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.

>Please contact:
>Scott Mears

Yes, I do object.

I read this area for answers on technical problems.
Job add related messages don't belong here.
IMHO they would perfectly fit into 'jobs.lang.delphi' or whatever.
I suppose that people who are switching from one job to another are
also willing to swith to another area to find a job that meets their
expectations.

Besides that, speaking for myself. I'm living in Holland and  I don't
think you will come up with that many jobs in this cute and tiny
little country.  So don't annoy me with jobs in the US, Canada,
Australia or New Zealand. That are places I would like to go on
vacation, not work.

I'm not against a job add or two, as long as they are occasionally and
placed by someone who is obviously about to collapse under the
pressure of his/her workload and politely asks a fellowprogrammer to
hop in to get some relieve.
Reading you message however, I get a distinct impression that big
bucks are involved here. (Your headhunter bonus). In that case you'll
have to play it by the book. First you invest some bucks (in creating
the apropriate areas) and then you start to compete with other
headhunters to become the best. When you managed to do so then you are
permitted and entitled to collect.  

I can appreciatiate you asked first though...

Peter.

mhwexler@ccgate.hac.com (Mason Wexler) writes:
>I don't know about news group charters, 

This is not a question of charters but of netiquettes which
want you to post to apropriate groups. In case of job advertisments
apropriate groups are the one of the jobs hierarchy.

h.f.s.

--
Hans Friedrich Steffani
Institut fuer Elektrische Maschinen und Antriebe
TU Chemnitz-Zwickau
e-mail: hans.steffani@e-technik.tu-chemnitz.de

In article <4idgni$gcg@ganja.nol.net>, eic@nol.net (Jon M. Ferns) wrote:
>My company is looking to hire individuals that frequent this USENET channel. 
 
>I would like feedback as to the objection of my company posting jobs available 
>(discretely) here.

Im my mind - nobody had, or will ask me - this is BULLSHIT, because there
are several groups, whith the topic JOBS. Why are this groups there?
Because there will people post there experience, how it is to have a job?

Or just for the gouverment, to figure out, how many have a job and how many
not? 

But OK, start sending your offers, the next one will send his commercials
in the newsgroups, and after all I will be happy! 

Why? I will tell you: Because then I will unsubscripe to all newsgroups and
I can save a lot of time.

>
>I would appreciate your feedback, because if allowed, I would like to show you 
>exactly for what I want to hire you.
>
>Please contact:
>Scott Mears


BTW: Scott: Have you EVER seen the NEWUSERS-newsgroups? Have a look, can be
helpfull :-)

Holger "Don't get me wrong" Koepke
---
Disclaimer: Expressed opinions are mine and not necessarily those of MMS
* Holger Koepke       * MMS Communication GmbH * tel.: +49 40 211105-0
* h.koepke@mms.de     *  Distribution for USR  * fax : +49 40 21032210
*                     *   and other COM-stuff  * http://www.mms.de/~holger

Philip Staite wrote:

> NO NO NO NO, NO!
> 
> Did you look at the list of newsgroups this was posted to?  Not ONE has
> "jobs" in it.  However, a quick grep of my .newsrc file shows the
> following groups with "job" somewhere in their name:
> 
> alt.job.gooley
> biz.jobs.offered
---------------------message truncated here---------------------
> Phil Staite, (507) 253-2529, team OS/2
> internet: pstaite@vnet.ibm.com  internal: pstaite@rchland


Phil,

Thanks for taking the time to find and list the "job" oriented 
newsgroups, I hope they are properly put to use.

I DO NOT think posting to this newsgroup is appropriate and think it 
should be stopped IMMEDIATELY!

At least you, Phil, provided some constructive suggestions on 
alternatives.  Thanks

Craig

"George D." <gdelco@tiac.net> wrote:

>Since this is a Lotus Notes newsgroup, you should be able to post jobs 
>requiring expertise in Lotus Notes.  I see no problem with this, as 
>long as you don't mass post your job openings portfolio, you may be ok.  

Spam . . spam . . spam . . 

Will you people _please_ check you message headers before posting
responses.  

I read this response in comp.dcom.lans.ethernet.

Not exactly a Lotus Notes newsgroup.

If you are reading this and don't think it pertains to you, you should
progably guess again.

I know this message is a spam, but it is intended to be so . .
internet usenet is getting to be practically useless as people get in
here that haven't a clue how it works.

Do your homework folks  ......



--
Mike Fahy
mikefahy@shol.com

Anatoli Mandelchtam <tolik@tarley_pc.loc201.tandem.com> wrote:

=> It is not apropriate to post job ads in these newsgroups. Some reasons:

=> 1. Their topics are _not_ intended for job hunting related ads (read FAQs);

=> 2. Articles in these groups are distributed _worldwide_ while you do local or
=>    nationwide hiring at best;

=> 3. Groups like comp.lang.c++ get over 200 messages per day. This is high enough
=>    not to want any more unrelated stuff.

Yes.  And if people are looking for a job, they should be looking in
the 'jobs' newsgroups.  There are plenty of them.  If necessary you
could create a newsgroup for your specific type of job or geographical
area.

1. Most people reading here are _not_ looking for jobs.

2. Everyone reading the jobs newgroups is looking for work (I would
assume).

3. 'Nuf said.