🚀 go-pugleaf

Revenant wrote:

  THE AUSTRALIAN INTERNET IS UNDER ATTACK.  PLEASE SIGN THE ONLINE
  PETITION AT: http://www.ozlink.net/

  Anyone can sign, not just Australians.  Please help!
  -----
  On March 25, 1997, the Australian Parliament passed legislation that

  threatens to shut down the Internet in Australia. The
  Telecommunications Bill opens the way for Telstra to charge for
  timed data calls. As the source of connectivity for hundreds of
  ISPs in Australia, this will allow Telstra to strangle Australia's
  ISP industry by raising their charges. In turn, these charges will
  be passed on to the consumer. Using the Internet through today's
  ISPs will become so expensive that very few people will be able to
  afford it.
  Companies will lose their clients and go out of business. Gradually,

  Telstra will take over Australia's ISP community, and the age of
  affordable Internet access will end.

  As Ramin Marzbani, Principal of www.consult, Australia's leading
  Internet analysts, remarked, "Telstra are very smart and
  well-prepared. The ISPs don't have a chance".
  -----

  FOR MORE INFORMATION SEE http://www.ozlink.net/

  -------------- Revenant [kgb@rosella.apana.org.au]
  -------------------
  "The whole principle is wrong; it's like demanding that grown men
  live
  on skim milk because the baby can't eat steak."
  - author Robert A. Heinlein on censorship.

 If the internet must rely on distorted economics of cross subsidies
from everyday phone users, then it is destined to collapse. The
principle of user pays will ultimately ensure the internets survival.
Untimed Local Calls are currently providing a subsidy to ISP's. How many
ISP's provide untimed internet access, some US�ISP's tried this approach
of "all you can eat", which caused massive growth in users, drove up all
the infrastructure costs at a faster rate than revenues and nearly
brought down AOL whole system. Most US�ISP's are now restructuring
pricing rates back to a user pays system, more you use, more you pay.
Why is it that Telco's should be any different, the role of Price is as
a rationing mechanism, ISP's use it, but want someone else (telco's) not
to.

This beat up on Telstra as putting all ISP's out of business is crap,
ISP's are likely to fold in big numbers any way as there is no money in
being an ISP. You have to be big to survive, none of the ISP's are
making reasonable returns on capital because expenses are growing faster
than revenues. Unless a more rational economic structure is put inplace
for the internet, it is headed for collapse. This means allowing for
timed calls, charging for greater quality of service (RSVP), and
stopping cross subsidisation between industry players.

In response to Ramin, Telstra are not smart, it is the ISP's which are
smart.

Doug Willis wrote:
> 
> Revenant wrote:
> 
>>   THE AUSTRALIAN INTERNET IS UNDER ATTACK.  PLEASE SIGN THE ONLINE
>>   PETITION AT: http://www.ozlink.net/
>> 
>>   Anyone can sign, not just Australians.  Please help!
>>
>>   On March 25, 1997, the Australian Parliament passed legislation that
>>   threatens to shut down the Internet in Australia. 
> 
> If the internet must rely on distorted economics of cross subsidies
> from everyday phone users, then it is destined to collapse. The
> principle of user pays will ultimately ensure the internets survival.
> Untimed Local Calls are currently providing a subsidy to ISP's. 

So what you are saying is that the "everyday" users with their untimed
local phone calls are subsidising the untimed data calls these same
"everyday" users are making to ISPs.

HUH???   This man HAS to be an economic rationalist!!!

Now, what was that profit figure Telstra announced recently??
You know, the one they announced around the same time they announced 
their pressing need to make 22,000 workers redundant.

Make no mistake, timed data calls are the thin edge of the wedge.

Could someone please post a URL to the email addresses of MPs.
I think some of the readers of this group may have need of it.

Gaz

========================================================================
 Gary R Curtis                      mailto:opus.logic@mailbox.uq.edu.au
 Brisbane,  Queensland,  Australia             mailto:gaz@humbug.org.au
========================================================================

Gary Curtis <opus.logic@mailbox.uq.edu.au> writes:

>Doug Willis wrote:
>> 
>> If the internet must rely on distorted economics of cross subsidies
>> from everyday phone users, then it is destined to collapse. The
>> principle of user pays will ultimately ensure the internets survival.
>> Untimed Local Calls are currently providing a subsidy to ISP's. 

>So what you are saying is that the "everyday" users with their untimed
>local phone calls are subsidising the untimed data calls these same
>"everyday" users are making to ISPs.
[...]
>Make no mistake, timed data calls are the thin edge of the wedge.

You're probably right there.  :-)

Read Simon Sharwood's column in _PC Week_ 19 Feb 97, p.32.

The subsidy to ISPs through untimed local calls is only the tip
of the iceberg (to coin a phrase :).

There is also the matter of "pirating" other people's resources
[probably] unintentionally because of the way the Internet works
and routes packets down "available" pipes.  So if one mob's data
(OzEmail Phone, for example) finds its own pipe full it simply
chugs off to find another one, e.g. Telstra's.  In effect, this
means OzEmail gets paid for the use of another's resources.  Of
course, one assumes this could work the other way at times too.
(I wonder if anyone has data on the nett "cross-subsidy" of such
things for traffic to and from Oz?)

It's probably not a situation telcos and others will tolerate
for ever.  Sharwood concludes that private, secure, managed
networks will replace the Net as we know it -- e.g. Clinton's
Internet2, devoted to educational institutions in the US could
be considered an early example of the way ahead.  The motivation
may well be quality of service as much as anything else -- and
that could certainly do with some improvement!

Cheers,  Ian S.

-- 

Ian Staples                        MS-Mail: staplesi@dpi.qld.gov.au
c/- P.O. Box 1054 MAREEBA          Phone  : +61 (0)70 928 555 Home 924 847
Queensland Australia 4880            Fax  : +61 (0)70 923 593   "   "   "

Zach wrote:
> 
> Put this on your web page.
>       '''
> +-oOO-~o~-OOo---------------------------+
> |      V                                |
> |Zach Ong                               |
> |mail : zach@alphalink.com.au           |
> |WWW: http://alphalink.com.au/~zach     |
> +---------------------------------------+

Yeah, and quit spamming every online newsgroup with world distribution. 
How about limiting it to .au..?

-- 
Larry Jandro -- Edit De-Spammed Header to Reply via E-Mail

  *   LJ Video Engineering    -   Near San Francisco   *
  * www.ljvideo.com -  Using Linux 1.2.13 & X-Windows  *