🚀 go-pugleaf

smart post, Marge ...


"marge" <noneofyourbusiness@excape.com> wrote in message
news:4024425E.C40@excape.com...
> Tom_O wrote:
> >
> > yf@ziplip.com (Your Friend) wrote in message
news:<be064478.0402050829.5fce17bf@posting.google.com>...
> > >
> > > Now here's where it gets funky: Ricardo would say that the USA should
> > > innovate in technology and stop programming, and India should do the
> > > programming and stop innovating. If we each concentrate on our "most
> > > best" and then trade, more of both get produced for less ? the very
> > > essence of increased productivity.
> > >
> >
> > You can't make an "innovation vs. programming" argument.  That's
> > stupid.  Programmers are not analogous to factory workers assembling a
> > set of components for an automobile.  When it comes to software,
> > programmers *are* the innovators.  We work every day to "invent"
> > computer systems by analysis, design, and implementation.  Seems like
> > people outside the field of programming think we're just like highly
> > skilled bricklayers.  We just sit down and "churn out" code like an
> > assembly line worker, and that Indians should relieve us of this
> > menial task so we can concentrate on becoming the next Bill Gates(who
> > himself is a programmer).  The fact of the matter is, we can't
> > innovate in the computer field unless we continue to maintain a solid
> > base of experienced, employed programmers.  It's just that simple.
> > When we ship programming jobs overseas we are not just losing "jobs",
> > we are losing "professions".  The outsourcing proponents will preach
> > about "comparative advantage".  Well, an American programmer whos
> > personal "comparative advantage" is programming is now being forced to
> > change occupations to something he or she isn't optimal at, like being
> > a manager doing powerpoint presentations and sitting in meetings.  And
> > Indians who otherwise would never even care about being a programmer
> > are busy writing code because it's the only high-paying career they
> > have a choice of doing.  Now tell me where the efficiency is?
>
>
>  Your counter argument works. The simple models used by Ricardo proves
> what a weak science economics still is. I've studied economics in
> graduate school and believe me, it is as weak as a science can get. They
> want the respectability of a hard science such as physics but they'll
> never get it by such simple minded half-assed models.
>
> Of course, programmers are innovative, but if you're not in the field,
> how can you be? There also is this hidden assumption which seems to
> suggest Indian programmers are not up to par when it comes to being
> innovative. Funny how the experts assume Indians will not be producing
> much of anything new without our help.
>
> I think this is all just an excuse to move jobs out. Where will the tax
> base come from in many cities and states if professionals aren't making
> decent salaries. How long before the upper classes are taxed to death to
> make up for the loss tax revenue? Then will they react?
>
> How many jobs were lost in our dead TV industry? In our dead VCR
> industry? Who said Japan is better in building TVs? We could have kept
> the industry but our brain damaged excutives lost the industry. We made
> up for the loss because the best and brightest we able to create new
> industries to make up for the mistake in losing our TV production. Not
> because we were better off giving Japan TV production so we could do
> better in some other field. That is so lame.
>
> If we keep losing and giving away one industry after another eventually
> we'll lose it. How can we remain innovative as we were even two decades
> ago? Are our children as well educated? Test scores have been dropping
> for the last 20 years. There is a flood of people into this country who
> barely score above 300 on their math SATs. Kids flooding into this
> country who can't even handle fractions in high school.
>
> The gene pool is changing in America and its not becoming smarter.
> Thirty years ago you had many bright kids going out into the job market,
> talented and eager to do something new. Even the music has gotten worse
> over the last 30 years. Rap is retarded music for brain dead kids. Kids
> who hate reading, who don't understand science.
>
> Sure there are many smart children remaining, but they are becoming a
> smaller percentage of the population everyday. This magical idea we can
> always innovative better than anyone else forever is too naive for my
> taste. We've become like England of old, when they thought the sun would
> never set on the British Empire, or when France was the most important
> nation in the world, or when Germany thought it was the most powerful,
> they all couldn't imagine themselves losing their greatness. Just as we
> can't see ourselves losing it, in spite of all the signs we are.
>
>
> They'll say someday, it wasn't an army which finally defeated the USA.
> It was their business people from within, not unlike Rome's fall. We all
> sense it in America even though we won't see it. How many of us believe
> that America will be the most powerful nation on the eath in a 100
> years? Not many. We sense it will be China. And doesn't that scare many
> of us? We somehow sense that will not be a good thing for many peoples.
> They are not a kind people or warm people.
>
> It might be karma working on the US. It took the country by almost
> killing the native Indians. Maybe that is what is in store for its
> whites. To be wiped out as it wiped out to have the nation.