🚀 go-pugleaf

It's hard for us humans to view ourselves objectively.  As an Ancient Greek
philosopher put it - "If oxen had a god, it'd be in the form of an ox."
Remember this: in Biological Evolution there is no such thing as "progress";
evolution is an unconscious, mechanical process, which operates according to
various laws, and is indifferent to what it produces, or extinguishes.  90%
of all species which have ever existed are extinct; so why should we be an
exception? - because we think we can control Nature?  We tend to forget, to
our peril, that we are PART of Nature.  "Evolution" means "unfolding", and
this does not imply "progress"; we read "progress" into it, and think we are
the supreme achievement, instead of a complex side-branch.  Our very
complexity makes us that much more vulnerable to extinction, than, say, a
cockroach, after a nuclear war.  The human plague has spread across the
planet, and is chomping away remorselessly at the environment and resources
generally.  I am reminded of the experiment whereby some small water animal
was put in a flask full of nutrient; its population grew until it ran out of
food and suffocated in its own pollution.  We, too, live in "a closed
system".
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"Hostman Brevis" <apocalypse_zero@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:caeecb67.0404301512.22ccbd69@posting.google.com...
> John  Ings <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
>
> > And that makes them inferior? Only in our opinion.
> Scientific opinion based on facts.
>
> > Different, not necessarily superior. From the point of view of the
> > global ecology, our species might justifiably be regarded as a plague,
> > We have driven many species into extinction and converted many green
> > and growing landscapes into desert.
> True but that's evolution. Too bad for the weak. Inferiority and
> superiority of organisms aren't evolutionary constants but dynamic,
> e.g. some organisms die quickly in a certain time-period while others
> prevail and in a later time-period they even become extinct. In our
> case, now we are superior to many species.
>
> > >Bad example. I am certain that e-coli can't kill me because of
> > >penicilline antibiotic.
> >
> > You might try telling that to the citizenry of  the town of Walkerton
> > in Ontario. Seven people there died from e-coli in 2000
> That's MRSA, a growing threat, caused by using excessive amount of
> antibiotics. Bacteria have somehow adapted. Without antibiotics in the
> first place, it won't be just seven people, I dare to say thousands or
> more! But that's not going to mean that we aren't able to repel
> disease NEVER EVER. Think of SARS, new medicines for NEW diseases are
> created in no-time!! A few deaths in the beginning-phase of the
> disease doesn't mean the bacteria are "superior".
>
>
> > >Talking about intelligence compared to a
> > >e-coli who by definition can't think is a stupid childish remark.
> >
> > I'd say your conceit about superiority based entirely on intelligence
> > is equally childish.
> At least I'd rather be a highly intelligent child than an inferior
> worm!;-) You underestimate the medical science and overestimate the
> value of bacteria and worms in evolution's history.
>
> > >I'm simply extrapolating this view to a 'world
> > >scale' where humans are involved. I know that you like to be compared
> > >with worms and bacteria but I just don't.
> >
> > That's the conceit of man. Theologically this takes the form of the
> > Genesis account in which man is given custody of all inferior life
> > forms to manage and bend to his will. In the story of the Deluge, God,
> > having become ticked at man's behavior and prepared to eliminate him,
> > was also getting ready to kill off all life on earth. After all, it
> > was just there to support wonderful man!
> WTF has theology has to do with it? I'm talking about science here.
>
>
> > What a colossal conceit!  We're a Johnny-come-lately smart-assed ape
> > that got lucky by evolving three characteristics in rapid sucession.
> > Superior to other species? That's OUR egotistical fancy.
> Was it Johnny or Adam? ;-) Name those three. Try to think while your
> at it, why you are fighting "equal rights" for worms;-) Call us
> egoists, but I never heard bacteria, worms and insects called
> themselves that while they have populated more space on earth than us.
>
> > Got a cure for the AIDS virus handy?
> We are working on that. I expect it to be ready someday.
>
> > >Remember I'm not saying that worms and bacteria and insects aren't
> > >going to be there for a long time....I'm saying humans have the
> > >capacity to gain knowledge about ecosystems and bio-chemical/physical
> > >nature of life and with the help of that (remember penicilline) we can
> > >overcome most of things (not all). This rapid  kind of 'enhancement'
> > >of species, without taking millions of years is something 'unheard of'
> > >since the existence of the first cells. Whether or not extreme
> > >adaptation is a bad thing really remains to be seen.
> >
> > Then whether we are superior or a pestilence remains to be seen!
> Depends on which perspective you are looking at. Choose between higher
> or lower organisms. I just don't look into the (completely absent)
> mind of worms.
>
> Also, to discuss the scientific fact that 'information gain' (with a
> greater cerebrum) and therefore an accelerated evolutionary benefit
> for us, is a good thing on the long run, one has to understand or
> study the cerebrum. Whoever said that it is getting 'unstable' in the
> future is himself unaware of it's capability, plasticity and
> biological features. No-one nowadays understands the brain, only a
> fraction of it. So making negative remarks about it NOW isn't smart,
> and most bad PREDICTIONS are totally crap, based on chaos theories or
> diseases which are irrelevant. DNA technology in medical science will
> be able to alter and adjust genetic problems in the future. Try let
> your stupid worms to do that! Inferior, you bet!
>
> > ## Man is creation's masterpiece;  but who says so?-  Man!
>
> Man rulez, worm arselicker ;-) Worms are evolution's 'background
> noise', they need to be filtered out.