🚀 go-pugleaf

    Need the HL engine?  So you're saying that it's not included with TF2?  No,
i seriously doubt that.  Standalone means that it stands ALONE and does not need
any other poduct to function i.e. you don't have to insert your HL cd while
installing TF2.  Valve always told us that TF2 was going to be an addon, and now
they've decicded they're gonna give all those people who bought HL just for TF2
the finger and sell TF2 full price without you having to have HL to play it.
See? So $50 for HL, $50 for TF2 =$100.  They duped all the people who bought HL
for TF2 because now they're gonna have to pay a full $50 for TF2 after they
already paid for HL.  That's what it's all about.  It's not about TF2 being a
different animal..it's about Valve lying and misleading their customers so they
can milk them for all they're worth.

ADM wrote:

> Stop moaning. You will need the HL engine to play TF - even if you don't
> want to play single player. That's what you pay for. Besides - the amount of
> copies of TF sold will be minimal compared to the amount of single user
> copies sold. Multiplayer games always overestimate the importance of
> multiplayer gaming (I play MP too by the way - so I am not a biased SP
> gamer). As you know - you can play deathmatch for free with your regular
> copy of HL. TF is a different animal - so why complain about having to pay
> for it.
>
> Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
> >I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
> felt
> >i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
> >that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
> >TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
> >it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
> >full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
> >This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
> >gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
> >Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
> >more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
> >after somthing like TF2)
> >
> >
> >

that is pretty gay
Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
felt
>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
>after somthing like TF2)
>
>
>

If you read the previous post properly, you'll understand what this guy was
trying to say.

TF2 was moved from Q2 to HL. Everyone who wanted to play TF2 went out and
bought HL on the premise that it would be needed to play TF2 (it was
orginally billed and marketed as an add-on pack for HL).

It was announced a few days ago that TF2 will now be a *stand alone* game -
no HL needed - nada, zip, zero, nulla.

I have no problem buying a game, but I have had the same misgivings as
Eric - it looks like Valve have made a play to make a lot of gamers rush
out and buy HL because we thought we needed it to play TF2 - now that's no
longer the case, mutterings are rising in the camps.

I'll still buy TF2 before you ask - I won't like having to pay extra because
the price of the game will no doubt increase now it's a stand alone product,
but I feel that if this news had been announced before, I wouldn't have
bought HL in the first place. I would've sat back, saved my money and just
waited for TF2.

--
_DiNo_
-----
Remove *NOSPAM* from email addy to reply.
ICQ: 4477057
----
The things that come to he who waits are usually
the things that were left there by the guy who got
there first.
----

That is your response to his post??  Hm, very well thought
out indeed.

Yes your moniker is right on.

He has a point btw.


>that is pretty gay

I agree with you Eric, it sux how they have said your gonna need half-life
to play tf2, and then go back on their word, i bought HL for tf2,
(multi-player is pretty shit, laggy as hell etc).

They should do a rebate or something for people that already have HL, or
something along those lines. They have made alot of money on HL, and they
are just trying to milk it for more buy doing this.

Martin


This is pretty out of order, they should do a rebate for all those people
that purchased HL,
Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
felt
>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
>after somthing like TF2)
>
>
>

In message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au> - "Eric bb"
<xericbx@iinet.net.au>Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:27:06 +0800 writes:
:>
:>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i felt
:>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
:>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
:>TF2,

Half-Life is the platform of TF2, just like Unreal is the platform of
Klingon Honor Guard.

:>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
:>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.

And releasing a full-price game that requires that you buy a
previous full-price game is?

David Tiemroth.
My personal motto is:
"Damn, I'm good!!!"
It may not be the truth, but it's still my motto.

Remove "NOSPAMFORYOU" to email me.

TF2 was going to cost extra anyway.  So, squeezing money is probably not the
issue.
They have already stated that TF2 will have a lot of new features that arent
in Half-Life so it wouldnt really be just an "add-on."  I dont recall them
marketing Half-Life as the platform for TF2.  They marketed it as a kick ass
game with great graphics, AI, and interactivity.
It would be nice if they offered some sort of discount or rebate for people
who already bought Half-Life though.
Half-Life multiplayer rocks so I dont care.  There are a couple 'net issues,
but I dont experience any major problems.  On a LAN, it kicks ass.  TF2 will
be just another multiplayer game to add to the arsenal.
By the way, it's Valve, not Value.

Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
felt
>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
>after somthing like TF2)
>
>
>

Stop moaning. You will need the HL engine to play TF - even if you don't
want to play single player. That's what you pay for. Besides - the amount of
copies of TF sold will be minimal compared to the amount of single user
copies sold. Multiplayer games always overestimate the importance of
multiplayer gaming (I play MP too by the way - so I am not a biased SP
gamer). As you know - you can play deathmatch for free with your regular
copy of HL. TF is a different animal - so why complain about having to pay
for it.



Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
felt
>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
>after somthing like TF2)
>
>
>

TCH wrote in message <75rvta$3ne$1@remarQ.com>...

MB wrote in message <36816929.0@news.mocc.net>...
>Thats what people get for being stupid.
>Anyone who buys a game _now_ because an add-on
>is coming _later_, doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.


Bullshit.  Add-ons, mods and conversions extend the playability and add
value to the game.  Would people still be playing Quake if there had been no
Team Fortress or Capture the Flag?   I consider the mod part of the value of
the game...especially when the mod is as highly promoted and anticipated
TF2.  If I had known TF2 was going to be an entirely separate game I would
most likely not have purchased Half-Life.  The point is I thought I *had* to
buy Half-Life at some point if I wanted TF2.  Evidently, so did a lot of
other people.



Yes, they do extend the life of the games quite far.  That still doesnt
change the fact stated above.
If these people only bought Half-Life because of TF2, why did they buy it
now instead of waiting for TF2 to be released?  Ehhh heh.
Too bad.

Very true.  I have no interest in the single-player aspect of HL, or it's
plain vanilla DM experience, but I'm DESPERATELY waiting for TF2.  I was NOT
looking forward to buying HL just so I could pay MORE money to add TF2 to it.
Needless to say, I'm VERY pleased by Valve's decision.

--
Ray McCalla -             RoboRay[AGQ2]
For email reply, use the singular tense.
      http://packshack.webjump.com
          DIVX sucks.    Free DVD!

Mark Blunden wrote in message
<914450613.18611.5.nnrp-10.c2de551e@news.demon.co.uk>...
>Has it occurred to you that the large number of people who complained about
>having to buy Half-Life in order to play TF2 are probably one of the
>reasons Valve decided to release it as a standalone? Many people will have
>been in your position, wanting to buy Half-Life for TF2 support, but will
>not have been able to afford to do so. By making TF2 a standalone product,
>Valve answer these peoples' complaints by letting them purchase just one
>piece of software, instead of one piece of software and an add-on.
>Admittedly, by doing so they also piss off people in your position, but
>sometimes you just can't please everybody.

Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>felt i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player
>game, BUT that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the
>platform for TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers
>of TF and which it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.

Has it occurred to you that the large number of people who complained about
having to buy Half-Life in order to play TF2 are probably one of the
reasons Valve decided to release it as a standalone? Many people will have
been in your position, wanting to buy Half-Life for TF2 support, but will
not have been able to afford to do so. By making TF2 a standalone product,
Valve answer these peoples' complaints by letting them purchase just one
piece of software, instead of one piece of software and an add-on.
Admittedly, by doing so they also piss off people in your position, but
sometimes you just can't please everybody.

--
Mark.
markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.

"Do you have any famous last words?"
"Not yet."
"'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:10:15 -0000, "Mark Blunden"
<markdb@spamoff.babylonian.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>Has it occurred to you that the large number of people who complained about
>having to buy Half-Life in order to play TF2 are probably one of the
>reasons Valve decided to release it as a standalone? Many people will have
>been in your position, wanting to buy Half-Life for TF2 support, but will
>not have been able to afford to do so. By making TF2 a standalone product,
>Valve answer these peoples' complaints by letting them purchase just one
>piece of software, instead of one piece of software and an add-on.
>Admittedly, by doing so they also piss off people in your position, but
>sometimes you just can't please everybody.


this brings up another thing. Team fortress 2 is going to be a
multiplayer only stand alone game. (there may be bots but in TF there
gona be no good). The only game that I think can make this happen is
Quake 3, and TF2 is definetly no Quake3 so it should stop being like
it and reright its ass to benig what it is.. a half life mod.

hehehe
So tell us again how excited you are about tribes.

Sheperd

Geoffrey Kigongo wrote in message <75pevl$2r9@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>Why don't you all quit complaining and go buy Tribes?
>
>-Geoff
>Lazarus[AGQ2]
>Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>felt
>>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no
more??
>>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i
m
>>after somthing like TF2)
>>
>>
>>
>
>

UnTamed wrote in message <36809c69.14756734@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:13:55 -0500, "Anonymous"
><anonymous@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>One of the buz guys at Valve (or Sierra) said that there will probably be
a
>>rebate for HL owners. Now, figure it's a 10 or 15 dollar rebate, and the
>>fact that you will be able to get TF2 from Comp USA or Best Buy for $30,
it
>>isn't so bad is it? A "add-on" is never really on sale, because it is so
>>cheap (relatively) and there would be no rebates. Soooo, there is a good
>>chance you will be able to buy TF2 for less than a add-on.
>>
>>
>
>LOL! A rebate? That's pretty dodgy considering people paid for the
>full price game and now realize they just brought it for nothing. I'm
>not one of these people but I know that Sierra/Valve have decieved
>thousands of people and should be punished for this!

Thats what people get for being stupid.
Even worse is the fact that they bought it right away instead of waiting for
the price to be even lower by the time TF2 was released.  Or even waiting
for TF2 to be released to see if it's any good.
Unless, of course, the complainers are full of it and just looking for
something to complain about..
I suspect that's the case.  Anyone who buys a game _now_ because an add-on
is coming _later_, doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.

MB wrote in message <36816929.0@news.mocc.net>...
>Thats what people get for being stupid.
>Anyone who buys a game _now_ because an add-on
>is coming _later_, doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.


Bullshit.  Add-ons, mods and conversions extend the playability and add value to the game.  Would people still be playing Quake if there had been no Team Fortress or Capture the Flag?   I consider the mod part of the value of the game...especially when the mod is as highly promoted and anticipated TF2.  If I had known TF2 was going to be an entirely separate game I would most likely not have purchased Half-Life.  The point is I thought I *had* to buy Half-Life at some point if I wanted TF2.  Evidently, so did a lot of other people.

TCH
email address invalid           

On 23 Dec 1998 05:06:01 -0600, "Clayton Macleod (OSR 341638)"
<cypress@bcsupernet.com> wrote:

>where's my damn receipt! hehe
>
>THE SIERRA NO-RISK GUARANTEE
>The Promise: We want you to be happy with every Sierra product you purchase
>from us. Period. If for any reason you're unhappy with the product, return
>it within 30 days for an exchange or a full refund...EVEN IF YOU BOUGHT IT
>RETAIL. (Hardware ordered direct must be returned within ten days.)  Please
>send back your product, signature required if mailing via US Postal Service.
>
>The Only Catch: You've got to tell us why you don't like the game.
>Otherwise, we'll never get any better. Send it back to us and we promise we
>will make things right. (If you bought it at a retail outlet, please send
>your original sales receipt.)
>
>* Returns valid in North America only.
>


I think Ive had half life over 30 days... bummer...

In message <36809bed.14633153@news.ozemail.com.au> - adamdevo@ozemail.com.au
(UnTamed) writes:
:>
:>You know how to read? They said it was a add-on FOR half-life, if it
:>wasn't an add-on everyone would know it's just a stand-alone game like
:>everyone knew Klingon Honour Guard was for Unreal.

Yes, I know how to read... so how about pointing me
somewhere where I can *read* that TF2 was an add-on
for Half-Life? "They said" doesn't really cover
it, does it?

David Tiemroth.
My personal motto is:
"Damn, I'm good!!!"
It may not be the truth, but it's still my motto.

Remove "NOSPAMFORYOU" to email me.

short and sweet.
Andy wrote in message <84Uf2.11554$5c1.2528648@news1.mco>...
>That is your response to his post??  Hm, very well thought
>out indeed.
>
>Yes your moniker is right on.
>
>He has a point btw.
>
>
>>that is pretty gay
>
>
>

i am total against hacking and violating copywrite laws but on this
occassion it would serve those bastards right.
Martin wrote in message
<914362750.4148.0.nnrp-01.c2debfa0@news.demon.co.uk>...
>I agree with you Eric, it sux how they have said your gonna need half-life
>to play tf2, and then go back on their word, i bought HL for tf2,
>(multi-player is pretty shit, laggy as hell etc).
>
>They should do a rebate or something for people that already have HL, or
>something along those lines. They have made alot of money on HL, and they
>are just trying to milk it for more buy doing this.
>
>Martin
>
>
>This is pretty out of order, they should do a rebate for all those people
>that purchased HL,
>Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>felt
>>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no
more??
>>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i
m
>>after somthing like TF2)
>>
>>
>>
>
>

WarriorX wrote in message <367FFB46.6D1E6F53@mindspring.com>...
>    Need the HL engine?  So you're saying that it's not included with TF2?
No,
>i seriously doubt that.  Standalone means that it stands ALONE and does not
need
>any other poduct to function i.e. you don't have to insert your HL cd while
>installing TF2.

Exactly - it is a stand alone product, which needs the half -life engine -
it is that engine that throws the polys around the screen. That engine is
part of TF - so you have to pay for it.


Sure - Valve may have used misleading marketing tactics, but TF will (I
hope) still be a different enough product to make it worth the money.


Valve always told us that TF2 was going to be an addon, and now
>they've decicded they're gonna give all those people who bought HL just for
TF2
>the finger and sell TF2 full price without you having to have HL to play
it.
>See? So $50 for HL, $50 for TF2 =$100.  They duped all the people who
bought HL
>for TF2 because now they're gonna have to pay a full $50 for TF2 after they
>already paid for HL.  That's what it's all about.  It's not about TF2 being
a
>different animal..it's about Valve lying and misleading their customers so
they
>can milk them for all they're worth.
>
>ADM wrote:
>
>> Stop moaning. You will need the HL engine to play TF - even if you don't
>> want to play single player. That's what you pay for. Besides - the amount
of
>> copies of TF sold will be minimal compared to the amount of single user
>> copies sold. Multiplayer games always overestimate the importance of
>> multiplayer gaming (I play MP too by the way - so I am not a biased SP
>> gamer). As you know - you can play deathmatch for free with your regular
>> copy of HL. TF is a different animal - so why complain about having to
pay
>> for it.
>>
>> Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>> >I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>> felt
>> >i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game,
BUT
>> >that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform
for
>> >TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and
which
>> >it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>> >full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no
more??
>> >This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out
from
>> >gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not
acceptable.
>> >Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player
game
>> >more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be
i m
>> >after somthing like TF2)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>

where's my damn receipt! hehe

THE SIERRA NO-RISK GUARANTEE
The Promise: We want you to be happy with every Sierra product you purchase
from us. Period. If for any reason you're unhappy with the product, return
it within 30 days for an exchange or a full refund...EVEN IF YOU BOUGHT IT
RETAIL. (Hardware ordered direct must be returned within ten days.)  Please
send back your product, signature required if mailing via US Postal Service.

The Only Catch: You've got to tell us why you don't like the game.
Otherwise, we'll never get any better. Send it back to us and we promise we
will make things right. (If you bought it at a retail outlet, please send
your original sales receipt.)

* Returns valid in North America only.

On 22 Dec 1998 22:18:39 GMT, leda@NOSPAMFORYOUvip.cybercity.dk (David
Tiemroth) wrote:

>In message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au> - "Eric bb"
><xericbx@iinet.net.au>Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:27:06 +0800 writes:
>:>
>:>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i felt
>:>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>:>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>:>TF2, 
>
>Half-Life is the platform of TF2, just like Unreal is the platform of
>Klingon Honor Guard.
>
>:>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>:>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>
>And releasing a full-price game that requires that you buy a
>previous full-price game is?
>
>David Tiemroth.
>My personal motto is:
>"Damn, I'm good!!!"
>It may not be the truth, but it's still my motto.
>
>Remove "NOSPAMFORYOU" to email me.
>

You know how to read? They said it was a add-on FOR half-life, if it
wasn't an add-on everyone would know it's just a stand-alone game like
everyone knew Klingon Honour Guard was for Unreal.

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 00:13:55 -0500, "Anonymous"
<anonymous@nowhere.com> wrote:

>One of the buz guys at Valve (or Sierra) said that there will probably be a
>rebate for HL owners. Now, figure it's a 10 or 15 dollar rebate, and the
>fact that you will be able to get TF2 from Comp USA or Best Buy for $30, it
>isn't so bad is it? A "add-on" is never really on sale, because it is so
>cheap (relatively) and there would be no rebates. Soooo, there is a good
>chance you will be able to buy TF2 for less than a add-on.
>
>

LOL! A rebate? That's pretty dodgy considering people paid for the
full price game and now realize they just brought it for nothing. I'm
not one of these people but I know that Sierra/Valve have decieved
thousands of people and should be punished for this!

On 23 Dec 1998 00:54:13 GMT, "Geoffrey Kigongo"
<Kigongo@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>Why don't you all quit complaining and go buy Tribes?
>
>-Geoff

Why don't you get out of the HL newsgroup and go play your shitty
tribes game...

One of the buz guys at Valve (or Sierra) said that there will probably be a
rebate for HL owners. Now, figure it's a 10 or 15 dollar rebate, and the
fact that you will be able to get TF2 from Comp USA or Best Buy for $30, it
isn't so bad is it? A "add-on" is never really on sale, because it is so
cheap (relatively) and there would be no rebates. Soooo, there is a good
chance you will be able to buy TF2 for less than a add-on.


MB wrote in message <368017bd.0@news.mocc.net>...
>TF2 was going to cost extra anyway.  So, squeezing money is probably not
the
>issue.
>They have already stated that TF2 will have a lot of new features that
arent
>in Half-Life so it wouldnt really be just an "add-on."  I dont recall them
>marketing Half-Life as the platform for TF2.  They marketed it as a kick
ass
>game with great graphics, AI, and interactivity.
>It would be nice if they offered some sort of discount or rebate for people
>who already bought Half-Life though.
>Half-Life multiplayer rocks so I dont care.  There are a couple 'net
issues,
>but I dont experience any major problems.  On a LAN, it kicks ass.  TF2
will
>be just another multiplayer game to add to the arsenal.
>By the way, it's Valve, not Value.
>
>Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>felt
>>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no
more??
>>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i
m
>>after somthing like TF2)
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Why don't you all quit complaining and go buy Tribes?

-Geoff
Lazarus[AGQ2]
Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
felt
>i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player game, BUT
>that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the platform for
>TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers of TF and which
>it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.  Now i have to pay the
>full amount to buy TF2 again and i don't even need my original HL no more??
>This is bull shit.  Value software sure know how to squeeze money out from
>gamers all over the world.  This kind of conducts is just not acceptable.
>Stop telling me how good HL is, i dont want to play the single player game
>more than once, and the multiplay isn't that outstanding at all (may be i m
>after somthing like TF2)
>
>
>

Here, I've got some Motrin.  :)

--
Ray McCalla -             RoboRay[AGQ2]
For email reply, use the singular tense.
      http://packshack.webjump.com
          DIVX sucks.    Free DVD!

Clayton Macleod wrote in message ...
>ARGH! heh, I WAS WRONG! ooooh, that hurt *gurgle*

On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:09:52 -0000, "Mark Blunden"
<markdb@spamoff.babylonian.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>UnTamed wrote in message <36821e89.44829157@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>>Answer me this. Why did they lie about it being an addon, costing many
>>people $40+
>
>They didn't lie, they changed their minds.
>
>--
>Mark.
>markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
>To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.
>
>"Do you have any famous last words?"
>"Not yet."
>"'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
>
>

In that case they are going back on their word, which is dishonest in
one form or another. It doesn't matter what way you look at it, many
people got ripped off by Sierra.

Especially if they did it PURELY to sell off more copies of Half-life
which is what I suspect they did.

In message <3682d17a.10018568@news.ozemail.com.au> - adamdevo@ozemail.com.au
(UnTamed)Thu, 24 Dec 1998 23:44:45 GMT writes:
:>In that case they are going back on their word, which is dishonest in
:>one form or another. It doesn't matter what way you look at it, many
:>people got ripped off by Sierra.
:>
:>Especially if they did it PURELY to sell off more copies of Half-life
:>which is what I suspect they did.

But if you only bought Half-Life for Team Fortress 2, then
why not just wait til Team Fortress 2 was out, then buy
Half-Life as a discount game or something?

David Tiemroth.
My personal motto is:
"Damn, I'm good!!!"
It may not be the truth, but it's still my motto.

Remove "NOSPAMFORYOU" to email me.

heh, wrong, now you're gonna make me go hunt down an url to show you I
suppose, *sigh*


RoboRay <2roboray@bigfeet.com> wrote in message
news:75ttvu$ana$1@remarQ.com...
> When did they ever say that?  From the start, TF2 was supposed to be a
> commercial product.
>
> --
> Ray McCalla -             RoboRay[AGQ2]
> For email reply, use the singular tense.
>       http://packshack.webjump.com
>           DIVX sucks.    Free DVD!
>
> Clayton Macleod wrote in message ...
> >has it occurred to you that when they say it was to be a free
downloadable
> >addon, that it should be a free downloadable addon? heh
>
>

ARGH! heh, I WAS WRONG! ooooh, that hurt *gurgle*

Clayton Macleod <SPAMSUXcypress@bcsupernet.com> wrote in message
news:WSAg2.362$I51.102002@newscene.newscene.com...
> heh, wrong, now you're gonna make me go hunt down an url to show you I
> suppose, *sigh*
>
>
> RoboRay <2roboray@bigfeet.com> wrote in message
> news:75ttvu$ana$1@remarQ.com...
> > When did they ever say that?  From the start, TF2 was supposed to be a
> > commercial product.
> >
> > --
> > Ray McCalla -             RoboRay[AGQ2]
> > For email reply, use the singular tense.
> >       http://packshack.webjump.com
> >           DIVX sucks.    Free DVD!
> >
> > Clayton Macleod wrote in message ...
> > >has it occurred to you that when they say it was to be a free
> downloadable
> > >addon, that it should be a free downloadable addon? heh
> >
> >
>
>

When did they ever say that?  From the start, TF2 was supposed to be a
commercial product.

--
Ray McCalla -             RoboRay[AGQ2]
For email reply, use the singular tense.
      http://packshack.webjump.com
          DIVX sucks.    Free DVD!

Clayton Macleod wrote in message ...
>has it occurred to you that when they say it was to be a free downloadable
>addon, that it should be a free downloadable addon? heh

UnTamed wrote in message <36821e89.44829157@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>Answer me this. Why did they lie about it being an addon, costing many
>people $40+

They didn't lie, they changed their minds.

--
Mark.
markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.

"Do you have any famous last words?"
"Not yet."
"'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 23:13:46 -0700, "MB" <See@signature.com> wrote:

>
>TCH wrote in message <75rvta$3ne$1@remarQ.com>...
>
>MB wrote in message <36816929.0@news.mocc.net>...
>>Thats what people get for being stupid.
>>Anyone who buys a game _now_ because an add-on
>>is coming _later_, doesnt have anyone to blame but themselves.
>
>
>Bullshit.  Add-ons, mods and conversions extend the playability and add
>value to the game.  Would people still be playing Quake if there had been no
>Team Fortress or Capture the Flag?   I consider the mod part of the value of
>the game...especially when the mod is as highly promoted and anticipated
>TF2.  If I had known TF2 was going to be an entirely separate game I would
>most likely not have purchased Half-Life.  The point is I thought I *had* to
>buy Half-Life at some point if I wanted TF2.  Evidently, so did a lot of
>other people.
>
>
>
>Yes, they do extend the life of the games quite far.  That still doesnt
>change the fact stated above.
>If these people only bought Half-Life because of TF2, why did they buy it
>now instead of waiting for TF2 to be released?  Ehhh heh.
>Too bad.
>
>
>
 Because everyone wanted to see the game TF2  would be built on among
other reasons. Besides no-one expected Sierra to lie about it...
Your right, too bad for all those people that Sierra scammed money
from.

On Wed, 23 Dec 1998 19:10:15 -0000, "Mark Blunden"
<markdb@spamoff.babylonian.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Eric bb wrote in message <75oh4j$i6e$1@news.iinet.net.au>...
>>I bought Halflife is because of TF2, now TF2 is a standalone product, i
>>felt i've been con to buy HL.  I know HL is a very good single player
>>game, BUT that is not the reason i bought HL.  They marketed HL as the
>>platform for TF2, and i think they realise the good number of followers
>>of TF and which it helps to increase their sales by a great deal.
>
>Has it occurred to you that the large number of people who complained about
>having to buy Half-Life in order to play TF2 are probably one of the
>reasons Valve decided to release it as a standalone? Many people will have
>been in your position, wanting to buy Half-Life for TF2 support, but will
>not have been able to afford to do so. By making TF2 a standalone product,
>Valve answer these peoples' complaints by letting them purchase just one
>piece of software, instead of one piece of software and an add-on.
>Admittedly, by doing so they also piss off people in your position, but
>sometimes you just can't please everybody.
>
>--
>Mark.
>markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
>To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.
>
>"Do you have any famous last words?"
>"Not yet."
>"'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
>
>

Answer me this. Why did they lie about it being an addon, costing many
people $40+

try here  this is the first one there are atleast 4 more
http://www.sierrastudios.com/games/half-life/archives.html#expansion


David Tiemroth wrote in message <75r24b$9kf$3@news.cybercity.dk>...
:>You know how to read? They said it was a add-on FOR half-life,


Yes, I know how to read... so how about pointing me
somewhere where I can *read* that TF2 was an add-on
for Half-Life? "They said" doesn't really cover
it, does it?

David Tiemroth.
My personal motto is:
"Damn, I'm good!!!"
It may not be the truth, but it's still my motto.

Remove "NOSPAMFORYOU" to email me.

has it occurred to you that when they say it was to be a free downloadable
addon, that it should be a free downloadable addon? heh

Mark Blunden <markdb@spamoff.babylonian.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:914450613.18611.5.nnrp-10.c2de551e@news.demon.co.uk...
> Has it occurred to you that the large number of people who complained
about
> having to buy Half-Life in order to play TF2 are probably one of the
> reasons Valve decided to release it as a standalone? Many people will have
> been in your position, wanting to buy Half-Life for TF2 support, but will
> not have been able to afford to do so. By making TF2 a standalone product,
> Valve answer these peoples' complaints by letting them purchase just one
> piece of software, instead of one piece of software and an add-on.
> Admittedly, by doing so they also piss off people in your position, but
> sometimes you just can't please everybody.
>
> --
> Mark.
> markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
> To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.
>
> "Do you have any famous last words?"
> "Not yet."
> "'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
>
>

>In that case they are going back on their word, which is dishonest in
>one form or another. It doesn't matter what way you look at it, many
>people got ripped off by Sierra.
>
>Especially if they did it PURELY to sell off more copies of Half-life
>which is what I suspect they did.

I don't think so. What percentage of the Half-Life sales do you think were
due to people buying for TF2? Not that many, I'd bet. If Half-Life was a
piece of shit game, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but the
fact is it is one of the best FPS shooters ever and one of the greatest
games I've played.

I'm sure Valve meant what they said when they said it, but then they maybe
realised that they could do a lot more with TF2. Unfortunately, that means
they have to sell it for a higher cost. I can live with that, if the game
will be better in the end.

Nick F

I know tons of people that bought half-life only because TF2 was going to be
for it. I also have read tons of posts in here that say the same thing.

Nick Ferguson <ferguson@hkstar.com> wrote in message
news:760492$sb919@pegasus.hkstar.com...
> >In that case they are going back on their word, which is dishonest in
> >one form or another. It doesn't matter what way you look at it, many
> >people got ripped off by Sierra.
> >
> >Especially if they did it PURELY to sell off more copies of Half-life
> >which is what I suspect they did.
>
> I don't think so. What percentage of the Half-Life sales do you think were
> due to people buying for TF2? Not that many, I'd bet. If Half-Life was a
> piece of shit game, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you, but the
> fact is it is one of the best FPS shooters ever and one of the greatest
> games I've played.
>
> I'm sure Valve meant what they said when they said it, but then they maybe
> realised that they could do a lot more with TF2. Unfortunately, that means
> they have to sell it for a higher cost. I can live with that, if the game
> will be better in the end.
>
> Nick F
>
>

UnTamed wrote in message <3682d17a.10018568@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>On Thu, 24 Dec 1998 16:09:52 -0000, "Mark Blunden"
><markdb@spamoff.babylonian.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>UnTamed wrote in message <36821e89.44829157@news.ozemail.com.au>...
>>>Answer me this. Why did they lie about it being an addon, costing many
>>>people $40+
>>
>>They didn't lie, they changed their minds.
>
>In that case they are going back on their word, which is dishonest in
>one form or another. It doesn't matter what way you look at it, many
>people got ripped off by Sierra.

Only people who spent $40+ on a game based on their expectations of an
unfinished product, which is a dumb move anyway. For all they knew, Valve
might have gone bust or been bought out before they finished TF2, lost
essential team members to other companies, or any of dozens of other
disasters, so it's pretty stupid to buy HL on the assumption that TF2 as an
add-on was a certainty. Instead all that's happened is that Valve find that
in designing TF2 they've grown out of the standard HL engine, just as they
grew out of the standard Quake engine in the course of designing Half-Life.

The result will no doubt be a superior TF2 than it would otherwise have
been, and the extra improvement they'll get by using a modified HL engine
instead of sticking to the standard one will, in my opinion, almost
certainly be worth more than the price difference between an add-on and a
full game.

And as for those people who were 'suckered' into getting Half-Life because
they wanted TF2 - congratulations! You've been suckered into buying the
best, most innovative FPS game of 1998!

--
Mark.
markdb@babylonian.demon.co.uk
To e-mail me, remove the 'spamoff.' from my e-mail address.

"Do you have any famous last words?"
"Not yet."
"'Not yet'? Is that famous?"         - The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.