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Thread View: alt.games.tiddlywinks
2 messages
2 total messages Started by Larry Kahn Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:31
Foul shot vs out of turn
#32
Author: Larry Kahn
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:31
21 lines
1842 bytes
Let me see if I have this straight.  Dave (red) and I (blue) are playing 
Jon (green) and Alan (yellow).   Blue has just gone, then Alan plays his 
yellow.  This is out of turn, and either the shot is accepted and blue now 
goes, or else the shot goes back and green shoots.  If this had been a 
singles game, it would have been considered a foul shot, and if accepted 
then it is red to go.  (This is not what Natwa had been doing for years 
but I think the new interperetation is probably more consistent).
   Returning to the pairs game, if it was Jon's turn to shoot and Alan 
shot green instead, is this a foul shot or out of turn?  Clearly if the 
shot is not accepted, Jon then will play green, but if the shot is 
accepted, which color plays next?  
     Larry

   -----------------------------------------------------------------------
   | Larry Kahn                       |                                  |
   | The MITRE Corporation            |   BE REASONABLE. DO IT MY WAY.   |
   | lkahn@mitre.org                  |                                  |
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Re: Foul shot vs out of turn
#33
Author: Josef Sachs
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 05:36
49 lines
3142 bytes
>>>>> On Wed, 27 Jan 1993 13:31:57 GMT, lkahn@mitre.org (Larry Kahn) said:

	lkahn> Let me see if I have this straight.  Dave (red) and I
	lkahn> (blue) are playing Jon (green) and Alan (yellow).  Blue
	lkahn> has just gone, then Alan plays his yellow.  This is out
	lkahn> of turn, and either the shot is accepted and blue now
	lkahn> goes, or else the shot goes back and green shoots.

Based on my understanding of NATwA rules at the time of TROFCT79, that is
what we would do in NATwA.  However, it appears to be contrary to ETwA92
Rule 12 Section (d), which calls for red to play next if the yellow shot
is accepted.  I'm sure someone will let me know if the NATwA rule was
changed during my absence from the game.

	lkahn> If this had been a singles game, it would have been
	lkahn> considered a foul shot, and if accepted then it is red
	lkahn> to go.  (This is not what Natwa had been doing for
	lkahn> years but I think the new interperetation is probably
	lkahn> more consistent).

Under ETwA92, it would be red to play, regardless of whether the yellow shot
was considered a foul shot or out-of-turn.  In NATwA, I would argue that it
should be considered out-of-turn, with blue to play if accepted.  In my mind,
part of the honor of the game is to take into account intentions.  In your
example, if the singles player plays yellow, with the intention of playing
yellow and in the belief that it was yellow's turn to play, then that should
be considered yellow out-of-turn and not a foul shot in green's turn.  In other
words, I think of the singles player as two separate players, depending upon
the color intended to be shot, residing in a single body.

	lkahn> Returning to the pairs game, if it
	lkahn> was Jon's turn to shoot and Alan shot green instead, is
	lkahn> this a foul shot or out of turn?

It is a foul shot (not to be confused with a foul shot (otherwise known
as a free throw) in basketball, which is worth one point).

	lkahn> Clearly if the shot is not accepted, Jon then will play green,
	lkahn> but if the shot is accepted, which color plays next?

Under both ETwA92 and TROFCT79, it would clearly be red to play.  Under NATwA
rules, I would also adjudicate red to play, although with considerably less
assuredness, since I believe the rules to dictate the order of colors as
opposed to the order of players (theoretically the same).
-- 
Josef Sachs                     \     Morgan Stanley & Co., Inc.
sachs@FID.Morgan.COM             \    1251 Avenue of the Americas
Fixed Income Research Department  \   New York, NY  10020 USA
(212) 703-7031                     \
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