🚀 go-pugleaf

Well I took ACE's advice and bought a Creative Labs TNT2 Ultra from
www.buy.com for $148.95 and I couldn't be happier. I have a P2-350 w/128MB
and I get about 50FPS in Q3A demos 1 and 2 at 1024x768x32. I also get
50FPS in crusher in Q2 at the same resolution. I'm told that the TNTs are
CPU dependant and that you really should have at least 400MHZ, even though
mine runs great. I say buy the TNT2U and also get a celeron 366 and
overclock it to 550MHZ. JMO. Good luck!

Michael Sims wrote:

>         Hi,
>
>         Question for you helpful types. :)
>
>         My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
>
>         So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> sites like that?
>
>         Thanks in advance for your help...

--
SC|Mr.Blonde        Remove CLOTHES to reply
ICQ: 534009

"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you
least expect it.  That would make you quite unpopular in what's left
of your unit."  - In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine,
the Army's magazine of preventive maintenance.

It's a little hard to say actually.  :)

My best advice is to get something that will more or less hold you over
until, a compelling choice becomes available.  The TNT2 Ultra is a damn
nice card, but you aren't going to get "high" framerates on a PII 300.
If you can fork out the cash, a celeron 500 or a P!!! 450 coupled with a
TNT2 Ultra would do wonders.

The V3 is a fast chipset, but the OpenGL ICD is just a pain in the butt.
On the other hand, it appears that the game developers aren't stupid.
They know that 3dfx is selling V3's like hotcakes.  So I can guarantee
you that they'll be supported for a little time to come.  If you do opt
for the V3, don't fret.  You'll be able to play Q3A and UT without a
problem.  The biggest bonus of the V3 is price.  A V3 2k is a sweet card
for $100.  And on your system, it'll run like a champ.  Since you don't
run high resolutions you'll have extremely fast gameplay that looks
almost as good as a TNT2.

Now let's talk about future chipsets.  There's the GeForce, which seems
to be a nice card for "low" end systems.   The only problem is it's
price.  Nvidia's not exactly giving these things away.  Prices have been
quoted anywhere from $250 to $300 for one of these cards.  Kind of steep
when you could buy a Creative Labs Ultra TNT2 and a Celeron 500 with PPGA
to Slot1 adapter for about $300.

Honestly, if I was you I'd probably buy a V3 2k or 3k.  You'll save
money, and squeeze every bit of performance out of the PII 300.



Michael Sims wrote:

>         Hi,
>
>         Question for you helpful types. :)
>
>         My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
>
>         So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> sites like that?
>
>         Thanks in advance for your help...

a few words on V3 performance...   I have an AMD K6-2/400 cpu (not oc'd)
with 96MB of ram, and an Asus P5A-B motherboard.  My brother also has a
K6-2/400 not oc'd, P5A-B and 64MB of ram...  the only *REAL* difference in
the systems is video cards... I have a STB Velocity 4400 (TNT chipset) and
he has a V3 3k, both are AGP.  I downloaded and played the Drakan demo and
it ran perfectly on my system with all the eyecandy turned on except for
shadows (limited to Rynn and Arokh only).. when I put this demo on his
machine, the video card chugged along at what I can guess would be 15-20 fps
(ICK!)  after this I turned down the texture detail, turned off all shadows,
dynamic lighting, etc. but the thing still runs like crap.  Maybe this is
just the way the V3's run on AMD CPU's, I dunno... but if not,and you have a
middle-ranked performance machine, stick with a TNT or SLI a couple V2's cuz
from what I just saw the other night, I'm not too impressed with the V3...
and it only has 16 bit color and no antialiasing feature.. BLEAH!  (eat yer
heart out Lara Croft..  Rynn is a hottie!  maybe it's just that chainmail
boustier that does it for me... LOL)

James : LoTekGuru : SDS-Spank
www.quakeclan.net/sds
--
God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him

NOYB [AGQ2] <richardburlette@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:37F8BAEC.FCC4C08F@nospam.com...
>
> It's a little hard to say actually.  :)
>
> My best advice is to get something that will more or less hold you over
> until, a compelling choice becomes available.  The TNT2 Ultra is a damn
> nice card, but you aren't going to get "high" framerates on a PII 300.
> If you can fork out the cash, a celeron 500 or a P!!! 450 coupled with a
> TNT2 Ultra would do wonders.
>
> The V3 is a fast chipset, but the OpenGL ICD is just a pain in the butt.
> On the other hand, it appears that the game developers aren't stupid.
> They know that 3dfx is selling V3's like hotcakes.  So I can guarantee
> you that they'll be supported for a little time to come.  If you do opt
> for the V3, don't fret.  You'll be able to play Q3A and UT without a
> problem.  The biggest bonus of the V3 is price.  A V3 2k is a sweet card
> for $100.  And on your system, it'll run like a champ.  Since you don't
> run high resolutions you'll have extremely fast gameplay that looks
> almost as good as a TNT2.
>
> Now let's talk about future chipsets.  There's the GeForce, which seems
> to be a nice card for "low" end systems.   The only problem is it's
> price.  Nvidia's not exactly giving these things away.  Prices have been
> quoted anywhere from $250 to $300 for one of these cards.  Kind of steep
> when you could buy a Creative Labs Ultra TNT2 and a Celeron 500 with PPGA
> to Slot1 adapter for about $300.
>
> Honestly, if I was you I'd probably buy a V3 2k or 3k.  You'll save
> money, and squeeze every bit of performance out of the PII 300.
>
>
>
> Michael Sims wrote:
>
> >         Hi,
> >
> >         Question for you helpful types. :)
> >
> >         My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> > ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> > UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> > Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> > of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> > been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> > really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> > important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> > 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
> >
> >         So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> > in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> > a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> > looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> > system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> > sites like that?
> >
> >         Thanks in advance for your help...
>

Actually, that sounds like a pretty decent system to begin with.  You'd be
well on your way with just a faster CPU.  I don't know how to measure
framerates in UT just yet, but it seems to run pretty fast on my system.  Q3
never falls below 40 fps.  Here's what I run on:
P2-400
96mb RAM
8mb Creative Labs' Voodoo2 w/WickedGL drivers.

Of course, some people will tell you that the Voodoo2 is a complete piece of
crap, etc etc etc.  and to get a new card like the V3.  JMHO-it works fine
for everything I've thrown at it so far. I'm not denying that the V3 and
TNT's (and future Nvidia chipsets) are good, but you've already got a good
or at least half decent 3d card.

Hopefully you'll reply to these posts so some discussion will actually take
place (I'm just sick and tired of helping people on NGs only to have them
disappear..)


> Question for you helpful types. :)
>
> My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
...

Ford was well before my time here.  Apologies abound.
...
> Heh....this is Ford from SC....I don't think he's one to
> "disappear".........well.......at least not again.......
>
> ;-)

Hello All!
I have a question for you how much money do u wanna spend?
$200 Motherboard (if you dont have a BX chipset) and oc (overclock) ur
PII300 to 450MHz + Voodoo3 2k (100 for  mobo and other 100 for V3 2000)
$60 or less just get another V2.
or you can derive from the above.

TNT2 is too expensive ($150+ for the same perf as V3 2k +32bit color - no
thanks. Yes I admit TNT is a good product but pricewise V3 2k is better. I
have v3 2k and I never had any probs with it UT is about 40fps on non oc
card I have a PII-350 64meg)

/aseac

> Hi,
>
> Question for you helpful types. :)
>
> My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
>
> So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> sites like that?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help...

Michael Sims wrote in message <37f8f6bb.13864025@news-server>...
> Hi,
>
> Question for you helpful types. :)
>
> My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
>ram

Think about getting another Voodoo 2 12mb for SLI if you want a fairly cheap
upgrade.
I have a K6 2 300 MHz 64 Meg and 2 voodoo 2's and get around 50 fps at
1024x768 in Quake 2
An interesting thought the 3dfx Voodoo 2 was designed for 800x600 ive never
really noticed that much of an increase in dropping to 640x480
Two voodoo 2's will also scale very well with future processor upgrades and
for hardcore framerates on a 500 Mhz they are very close to the Voodoo 3(if
not faster)
BTW youll only get 32 bit textures if you go to the Rivas but this has never
bothered me as you never have time to look at the pretty sky when someones
about to frag you arse.

Both Q3 and Unreal and UT are very payable with my setup (dont know exact
FPS sorry)
Hope this is some help and just an example of what ive got there are plenty
of other options.

G

Alright Buddy....here's what I got to tell yas.....

First off, how much do you want to spend, or can you spend?  That is
probably the biggest question.  Now, I have in my possession, 2 V2's
SLI'd, a V3 3000, and a V770 TNT2 (non ULTRA).  I have only played UT on
the TNT2 and it flies.  No video lag whatsoever, and I'm guessing I'm
getting well over 40 fps.  Now, with the V3 3000, I played Q3 with it and
it was damn fast as well.  It's a good card (very fast as Chicken can
provide you with benchmarks), and well worth it's money IMHO.  I have it
in my other computer now just cause I have the TNT2 now.  I run all of
these games at 1024x768 (even with the V2's) and have never gotten below
40 fps in anything.  In most everything it's over 50 and closer to 60.  I
just played Q3 and I was averaging high 40's and low 50's even during the
damn rocket fights.

I have a little more to my system, PII 400 w/192 MB RAM.

Now, if you really want the speed, I'd probably suggest getting a Celeron
366 (they're only about $60 now) and then you can O/C it to up near 500 if
you want more speed than that.  Then, if you want faster framerates, pick
you up another V2 for cheap (less than $40 in most cases) and SLI them.
IT's hard to beat the V2 SLI as long as you have the extra PCI slot for
it.  Or, if you want to just bite the bullet, get a V3 3000 and it will do
the same thing, and it's AGP.

Good Luck.


Michael Sims wrote:

>         Hi,
>
>         Question for you helpful types. :)
>
>         My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
>
>         So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> sites like that?
>
>         Thanks in advance for your help...

--
SC|Wizard
wizard@plasticjesus.org
ICQ#:  21550487
The StoneCutter's Homepage:
http://www.baypoint.com/clan
"This isn't Hell, but you can see it from here!"

Heh....this is Ford from SC....I don't think he's one to
"disappear".........well.......at least not again.......

;-)


WarriorX wrote:

> Actually, that sounds like a pretty decent system to begin with.  You'd be
> well on your way with just a faster CPU.  I don't know how to measure
> framerates in UT just yet, but it seems to run pretty fast on my system.  Q3
> never falls below 40 fps.  Here's what I run on:
> P2-400
> 96mb RAM
> 8mb Creative Labs' Voodoo2 w/WickedGL drivers.
>
> Of course, some people will tell you that the Voodoo2 is a complete piece of
> crap, etc etc etc.  and to get a new card like the V3.  JMHO-it works fine
> for everything I've thrown at it so far. I'm not denying that the V3 and
> TNT's (and future Nvidia chipsets) are good, but you've already got a good
> or at least half decent 3d card.
>
> Hopefully you'll reply to these posts so some discussion will actually take
> place (I'm just sick and tired of helping people on NGs only to have them
> disappear..)
>
> > Question for you helpful types. :)
> >
> > My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> > ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> > UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> > Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> > of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> > been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> > really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> > important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> > 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
> ...

--
SC|Wizard
wizard@plasticjesus.org
ICQ#:  21550487
The StoneCutter's Homepage:
http://www.baypoint.com/clan
"This isn't Hell, but you can see it from here!"

On Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:13:53 GMT, Wizard <wizard@plasticjesus.org>
wrote:

>Alright Buddy....here's what I got to tell yas.....
>
>First off, how much do you want to spend, or can you spend?  That is
>probably the biggest question. 
[snip suggestions]

	Thanks for the help.  To answer your question, as little as
possible. :)  More specifically, I'd like to spend under $200 if
possible.  I could probably afford to upgrade the video card OR the
processor but probably not both.

	Thanks again...

Hmm....actually he never posted here much...hehe


WarriorX wrote:

> Ford was well before my time here.  Apologies abound.
> ...
> > Heh....this is Ford from SC....I don't think he's one to
> > "disappear".........well.......at least not again.......
> >
> > ;-)

--
SC|Wizard
wizard@plasticjesus.org
ICQ#:  21550487
The StoneCutter's Homepage:
http://www.baypoint.com/clan
"This isn't Hell, but you can see it from here!"

If you don't have that much money, go for a Voodoo 3. That's what I did. A
Voodoo 3 3000 AGP. I don't care about 16 bps limits, in fact, if I had a
TNT2 I would prbably play in 16 bits anyway, because when your trying to
frag someone, who cares about some banding in the sky? what bothers me the
most is the 256x256 texture limit, it can look blurry in some games.
Michael Sims <michaels@REMOVETOEMAIL.akamail.com> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:37f8f6bb.13864025@news-server...
> Hi,
>
> Question for you helpful types. :)
>
> My current system is a PII-300, 3dfx V2 w/12MB, and 128 MB of
> ram.  I'm looking for the cheapest upgrade that would push my average
> UT, Unreal, and Q3A framerate up into the 40s (hopefully higher).
> Right now I play lots of Quake 2 and I'm used to getting average fps
> of around 60.  I play the newer games and I average around 30.  I've
> been spoiled by the high framerates, so I go back to Q2, but I'd
> really like to move on to newer games.  Resolution is not very
> important to me (my monitor isn't that great).  Right now I'm playing
> 640x480 in Q2 to get the maximum fps.
>
> So, with all that in mind, how much of a fps boost would I see
> in the upcoming generation of games if I replaced my V2 with a V3?  Or
> a TNT2?  Would I also need to upgrade my processor as well?  I've been
> looking for benchmark sites that list timedemo scores for different
> system setups, but have been unable to find any.  Anyone know of any
> sites like that?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help...

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:22:43 -0400, "WarriorX" <warriorx@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Actually, that sounds like a pretty decent system to begin with.  You'd be
>well on your way with just a faster CPU. 
[snip]

	Thanks for the suggestion.  I thought that maybe going up to a
PII-400 would increase the fps, but I wish I knew WHICH upgrade would
yield more fps, dropping $200 for a PII-400, or $100 for a V3.  Maybe
I should do both.  I just need a good database of benchmarks that I
consult...

I'm from SC also....


Code Hammer




On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 02:45:56 GMT, trying to think of something clever
to say,  Wizard <wizard@plasticjesus.org> wrote:

>Hmm....actually he never posted here much...hehe
>
>
>WarriorX wrote:
>
>> Ford was well before my time here.  Apologies abound.
>> ...
>> > Heh....this is Ford from SC....I don't think he's one to
>> > "disappear".........well.......at least not again.......
>> >
>> > ;-)

By SC I meant the StoneCutters Quake2 clan....hehe....I'm from GA
actually...

;-)

http://www.baypoint.com/clan


CodeHammer wrote:

> I'm from SC also....
>
> Code Hammer
>
> On Wed, 06 Oct 1999 02:45:56 GMT, trying to think of something clever
> to say,  Wizard <wizard@plasticjesus.org> wrote:
>
> >Hmm....actually he never posted here much...hehe
> >
> >
> >WarriorX wrote:
> >
> >> Ford was well before my time here.  Apologies abound.
> >> ...
> >> > Heh....this is Ford from SC....I don't think he's one to
> >> > "disappear".........well.......at least not again.......
> >> >
> >> > ;-)

--
SC|Wizard
wizard@plasticjesus.org
ICQ#:  21550487
The StoneCutter's Homepage:
http://www.baypoint.com/clan
"This isn't Hell, but you can see it from here!"