🚀 go-pugleaf

Greg Keogh wrote:
> 
> Hello from Melbourne Australia,
> 
> It seems that installing Microsoft Directx 3 drivers on Windows 95 "upsets"
> how existing games will play in DOS mode. Helpful comments upon this
> technical mystery are most welcome. Details follow:
> 
> We've previously had no problems at all running many popular games such as
> Wing Commander and Silent Hunter under Win95. These games would simply go
> into a DOS full-screen window and run perfectly.
> 
> A few days ago we installed the flight-sim game 'USNF 97', during the
> installation it detected that the Microsoft Directx 3 drivers were not
> installed and asked us to confirm their installation, which we did. The
> installation ran smoothly, and the 'USNF 97' game then ran beautifully.
> 
> Later we discovered that running the previously installed and working games
> caused Win95 to issue the prompt:
> 
>    Program Requires MS-DOS Mode
> 
> We are then prompted to restarted the PC in DOS mode. After much
> experimentation we found that existing games would only run in MS-DOS mode
> with a new DOS configuration that manually loads all the CD-ROM and mouse
> drivers. The games will run, but it's very tedious to set-up this
> configuration for all of the existing games and restart the PC each time we
> want to play a game.
> 
> We are absolutely certain that the change was caused by installing
> Microsoft Directx 3 drivers. How has Directx 3 changed the way the
> previously working DOS games run? Help and advice most welcome.
> 
> Please cc responses to my personal email address so I get them ASAP.

I've been running Silent Hunter and other DOS games while having DirectX
version 3 (DX3) loaded for a very long time.  I've had this installation
on three seperate computers and never this problem. My guess is that
you're MSDOS pif needs to have a little tweaking done to it.  I would
recommend setting all memory options to AUTO and check the box on the
ADVANCED page that prevents DOS programs form detecting windows.

I hope that helps.

Jim 'Crazy' De Vico
Warbirds Trainer
-=Black Sheep=- Alpha Wing

> We are absolutely certain that the change was caused by installing
> Microsoft Directx 3 drivers. How has Directx 3 changed the way the
> previously working DOS games run? Help and advice most welcome.

This scenario seems very odd as DirectX only operates with games written
for it.  I've have DirectX 3 installed for some time now, and am capable of
running a few DOS programs with it.  I've run Duke3D no problem since then.
My advice would be to check the pif settings for the executable.  In the
Advanced settings on the Program options, select "prevent form detecting
Windows" instead of "suggest MS-DOS mode"  Otherwise, consider an F4 boot
to MS-DOS mode when playing MS-DOS games.  Or try Origin's Win95 update for
the MS-DOS version of WCIV at http://www.ea.com/origin
If that doesn't work, try taking the problem to news:alt.windows95.  I
highly recommend it as that is the place many people take their Win95
related problems to for help.

-- 
Address altered to avoid spam.
Send to fcchow@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca for serious matters, please.
It's bad enough 90% of my mail is regarding a money-making scheme, a new
website, or God.
Now my ISP is seriously P.O.'ed and is threatening action unless this
stops.

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On 14 Apr 1997 20:27:50 GMT, "Greg Cisko"
<gcisko@nOsPaMconcentric.net> wrote:

>
>Olin K. McDaniel <omcdaniel@flosc.net> wrote in article
><33524edf.990813@news.gabn.net>...
>
>> I found out shortly after Win 95 came out, it was the most corrupting
>> thing to my DOS installation, so I reformatted and created two
>
>If you install Win95 into C:\Windows where you had an old version
>of windows, then yes it does overwrite DOS & Win3.x. Just install
>into C:\Win95 instead and you will have OLD-DOS available from 
>the F8 option on bootup. 
>
>> completely independent and fully isolated operating systems.  That way
>> I can keep all my DOS programs in a pure DOS environment, DOS 6.22,
>> and any programs that need to run under Win95 are installed and run in
>> that environment.  It works fine for me.
>
>The DOS version of Win95 is just fine for games. There really is no
>need for DOS6.22 if you have Win95. You do not run DOS games
>in a DOS window. In some cases (like back to baghdad) you can
>though. Rob Kim posted a great idea some time ago. Just make
>a Win95 shortcut to COMMAND.COM. Then go to the section 
>where you specify the individual CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT
>and load your CDrom, mouse and soundcard stuff in those 
>sections. You can also make a shortcut for each DOS game with
>these startup files specified. Each time you run the game the computer
>re-boots & runs everything needed for the game. This is the things
>that you would normaly put in your DOS config.sys & autoexec.
>When you are done you re-boot back to Win95. Simple with 
>some practice. 

Hmm, I'm running my system with both DOS 6.22 and Win95 in dual-boot.
With the following lines added to my msdos.sys, I get a menu when
starting Win95 that let's me select which OS to boot:
[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=1
BootMenu=1
BootMenuDefault=1
BootMenuDelay=60
Network=0

That gives the the same menu as if I pressed F8, I just don't have to
press F8 here in the right second.
To me, this runs perfectly. I wouldn't trade it for anything else.
When booting to DOS, I have another DOS-boot-menu that lets me select
different autoexec.bat's and config.sys's. (with or without EMM386 and
so).
I agree that I could get my DOS games running in Win95 or DOS 7.0 as
well, but why should I care about how to run them in DOS 7 if I can
run the original?

I've found out why I had trouble with that dual boot on the other PC
in our home. It's a different version of Win95 (OEM). My Win95 OEM
here is about a year old and runs fine. The latest one doesn't seem to
like that dual-boot to DOS...

>As for DirectX 3 messing up DOS games... No way. Anyone
>who thinks otherwise does not understand what is going on
>with DOS/Win95. Period. Sorry to be blunt but that is how it

Agreed. No discussion about that.

Jan

jan.mandler@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Jan Mandler) wrote:


>Hmm, I'm running my system with both DOS 6.22 and Win95 in dual-boot.
>With the following lines added to my msdos.sys, I get a menu when
>starting Win95 that let's me select which OS to boot:

Ok, that's a good way and I used to do it that way too until I came to
realize that dos 6.2 is no better than dos 7.0. Those extra drivers
that Win95 loads in dos7 can be forced to not load by adding this
line;DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO (thx to JD for that tip). If you want Qbasic
back and other old dos stuff like HELP even, it's all on the Win95
cdrom which you can put back into dos7. Then you create a multi-config
and you will not need to press any function key to get dos, you just
select it from a menu at bootup. Very simple and very functional. Dos
6.2 is just a waste of space as far as I'm concerned. Mind you,
compared to the size of games these days it's no big deal, but why
have two copies of the same thing on your computer?

--
Nos
http://www.concentric.net/~nosfer/index.html

Warning - All spelling mistakes are to be left as is. No modification
is allowed without the express written permission of Nos Enterprises.
All complaints in regards to the subject herein are to be forwarded to
u_r@anal.com.

On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:28:03 GMT, nosfer@concentric.net (Nosferatu)
wrote:

>jan.mandler@stud-mailer.uni-marburg.de (Jan Mandler) wrote:
>
>
>>Hmm, I'm running my system with both DOS 6.22 and Win95 in dual-boot.
>>With the following lines added to my msdos.sys, I get a menu when
>>starting Win95 that let's me select which OS to boot:
>
>Ok, that's a good way and I used to do it that way too until I came to
>realize that dos 6.2 is no better than dos 7.0. Those extra drivers
>that Win95 loads in dos7 can be forced to not load by adding this
>line;DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO (thx to JD for that tip). If you want Qbasic
>back and other old dos stuff like HELP even, it's all on the Win95
>cdrom which you can put back into dos7. Then you create a multi-config
>and you will not need to press any function key to get dos, you just
>select it from a menu at bootup. Very simple and very functional. Dos
>6.2 is just a waste of space as far as I'm concerned. Mind you,
>compared to the size of games these days it's no big deal, but why
>have two copies of the same thing on your computer?
>
>--
>Nos

Hmm, maybe it's just that I don't like to give something up that works
fine and that I've spend so many hours in to configure that config.sys
/ autoexec.bat. 
OK, but maybe I do the switch to DOS 7 with the other PC in my home
I'm just doing the install work with.
So how you run that DOS 7? There are so many ways: Shortcuts to "dos
mode", or just click on start/boot to dos mode or whatsoever? I'm
normally quite good at configuring PCs, but I've never touched DOS 7.
So where do you add that multi-config? I know well how to do that in
6.22, is it the same in DOS 7? Do you alter the config.sys or just the
dosstart.bat?
I'd like to get some kind of menu where I can select whether to load
EMM386 or not and all that stuff.
Would be nive if you could explain that what you have on your system
in some detail.

Thanks,

Jan

Olin K. McDaniel wrote:
> 
> On 14 Apr 1997 20:27:50 GMT, "Greg Cisko"
> <gcisko@nOsPaMconcentric.net> wrote:
> 
> >
> >Olin K. McDaniel <omcdaniel@flosc.net> wrote in article
> ><33524edf.990813@news.gabn.net>...
> >
> >> I found out shortly after Win 95 came out, it was the most corrupting
> >> thing to my DOS installation, so I reformatted and created two
> >
> >If you install Win95 into C:\Windows where you had an old version
> >of windows, then yes it does overwrite DOS & Win3.x. Just install
> >into C:\Win95 instead and you will have OLD-DOS available from
> >the F8 option on bootup.
> >
> >> completely independent and fully isolated operating systems.  That way
> >> I can keep all my DOS programs in a pure DOS environment, DOS 6.22,
> >> and any programs that need to run under Win95 are installed and run in
> >> that environment.  It works fine for me.
> >
> >The DOS version of Win95 is just fine for games. There really is no
> >need for DOS6.22 if you have Win95. You do not run DOS games
> >in a DOS window. In some cases (like back to baghdad) you can
> >though. Rob Kim posted a great idea some time ago. Just make
> >a Win95 shortcut to COMMAND.COM. Then go to the section
> >where you specify the individual CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT
> >and load your CDrom, mouse and soundcard stuff in those
> >sections. You can also make a shortcut for each DOS game with
> >these startup files specified. Each time you run the game the computer
> >re-boots & runs everything needed for the game. This is the things
> >that you would normaly put in your DOS config.sys & autoexec.
> >When you are done you re-boot back to Win95. Simple with
> >some practice.
> >
> >As for DirectX 3 messing up DOS games... No way. Anyone
> >who thinks otherwise does not understand what is going on
> >with DOS/Win95. Period. Sorry to be blunt but that is how it
> >is.
> >
> 
> Greg,
> 
> You are absolutely correct,  I really don't know what all is going on
> with Win95 - neither in its native form nor it its so called DOS, but
> the full truth is - I don't feel I really want to know!!!!
> 
> I've been perfectly comfortable with DOS, having learned it in all its
> twists and turns, plus all the add ins that were available over the
> past 12 - 15 years.  I will continue to run programs that were/or will
> be written for DOS under that OS.  As I acquire new programs that
> demand Win95, I'll accept their requirements for their OS and use
> Win95 for them.
> 
> To do all the headstands etc. that you and others keep saying is so
> simple to do, and relearn another OS is not a viable alternative for
> me.  It's that simple.  I like to use what I feel comfortable with,
> and don't intend to knuckle under to a tidal wave of pressure.  It
> appears there are plenty of others of us, call us stubborn, hard
> headed, or even worse - we yield with great resistance.  Fighting all
> the way.  No offense meant, but I don't have to buy a new car every
> year nor a new computer every 6 months, nor a new OS when the old one
> does all I can possibly want.
> 
> Guess the flames begin!  <vbg>
> 
> Olin
> 
> -
REFORMAT AGAIN and just put on windows 95!!!
DirectX3 Rules dos sux!!!! There should only be 95 games!!
Hang on but Dos games run faster...But doesn't direct supposed do make
it faster o well just buy a faster computer!!!yeah right!!
Use OS/2 Warp....No that sux to it all sux!!!!!
-- 
	------Smmeeeeeeggggggg heeeeaaaaaadddddd-------
'It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was
an 
event that could will have been taken place in the future.'   =8-)=

On 14 Apr 1997 20:27:50 GMT, "Greg Cisko"
<gcisko@nOsPaMconcentric.net> wrote:

>
>Olin K. McDaniel <omcdaniel@flosc.net> wrote in article
><33524edf.990813@news.gabn.net>...
>
>> I found out shortly after Win 95 came out, it was the most corrupting
>> thing to my DOS installation, so I reformatted and created two
>
>If you install Win95 into C:\Windows where you had an old version
>of windows, then yes it does overwrite DOS & Win3.x. Just install
>into C:\Win95 instead and you will have OLD-DOS available from 
>the F8 option on bootup. 
>
>> completely independent and fully isolated operating systems.  That way
>> I can keep all my DOS programs in a pure DOS environment, DOS 6.22,
>> and any programs that need to run under Win95 are installed and run in
>> that environment.  It works fine for me.
>
>The DOS version of Win95 is just fine for games. There really is no
>need for DOS6.22 if you have Win95. You do not run DOS games
>in a DOS window. In some cases (like back to baghdad) you can

Yep, I've been using Win95 DOS 7 since Beta 2 with no problems on any
DOS programs.    Most of the time they run just fine in a DOS session,
I have just a few that need to run in a pure DOS mode.

>though. Rob Kim posted a great idea some time ago. Just make
>a Win95 shortcut to COMMAND.COM. Then go to the section 
>where you specify the individual CONFIG.SYS & AUTOEXEC.BAT
>and load your CDrom, mouse and soundcard stuff in those 
>sections. You can also make a shortcut for each DOS game with
>these startup files specified. Each time you run the game the computer
>re-boots & runs everything needed for the game. This is the things
>that you would normaly put in your DOS config.sys & autoexec.
>When you are done you re-boot back to Win95. Simple with 
>some practice. 
>

I actually run Win95/DOS7 just like I used to run WFW311/DOS622,
because they are basically the same.   I use the same multi-CONFIG.SYS
and AUTOEXEC.BAT from 6.22.  After I make my startup choice (extended,
extended/expanded, bare, Win95) the system boots to the DOS prompt
(except the Win95 choice).  When I need to run  Win95 I type WIN, just
like the old days.   If I have to leave Win95, it takes my back to the
DOS prompt.   All those splash screens at the start and exit of Win95
are just curtains so no one can see what is actually running behind
them, DOS !!!! (say it ain't so!!)

>As for DirectX 3 messing up DOS games... No way. Anyone
>who thinks otherwise does not understand what is going on
>with DOS/Win95. Period. Sorry to be blunt but that is how it
>is.

That is how it is.

>
>-- 
>Header address intentionaly scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.
>
>
>gcisko@concentric.net
>
>
>> 
>>