🚀 go-pugleaf

>Christian Williamson at c.willi@verizon.netsubconsciouslyyyy January 2005
>04:08 using <L2rGd.1872$ef6.909@trnddc07> from alt.politics stated under
>oath:
>
>> Abel Malcolm wrote:
>>> Social Security, which was created by us Democrats, and it has always
>>> been vehemently opposed by the Repugs, but what the Republicans are not
>>> willing to admit is that Social Security has genuinely, truly, and
>>> dramatically reduced the poverty rate of senior citizens.
>> 
>> What with all the vehemence you clowns showed against the Patriot Act,
>
>Can't handle the poster's points, eh?  You subconsciously know he's right; I
>know that because you resort to insult and irrelevant diversion from the
>main topic.  
>;
>> how come you're able to say whatever you want in your posts?
>> 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"......how come you're able to say whatever you want in your posts?......"



You can't.

Just because you are free to criticise the Bush Regime does not mean you can say 
whatever you want in your posts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> 
>> I think your post here, like previous posts, is just crying wolf.
>
>Not at all apt.  Go back and read Peter and the Wolf; you'll see!
>
>If anything, the poster is chastising Bushco for crying wolf on Social
>Security--not the reverse!  Peter/Bush cried "Social Security is broke" and
>the poster is analogous to the townsfolk who ignored the cries of wolf.
>
>There is a fiscal gap issue (not to be confused with the twin deficits or
>the federal debt) that both parties ignore.  Kotlikoff estimates this at
>$51 trillion dollars; google fiscal gap and this author for more.  There
>are painful ways to fix it but Bush's plan only worsens and ignores it.
>Expect to hear about it more in the coming years; austerity measures and
>perhaps conservative economist Milton Friedman's negative income tax may be
>put in place despite the resultant pain to individuals.  
>
>The poster is right about the fact that Soc. Sec. has reduced poverty
>amongst the elderly; young posters to these political groups fail to recall
>the successes brought about by the New Deal or even how they have
>personally benefited from Roosevelt's response to the Great Depression.
>
>The Republicans are ideologically opposed to Social Security and they resent
>the demonstrable successes it has wrought.  But, to quote Joni Mitchell:
>"you don't know what you got till it's gone.
>
> 
>>> Before SS
>>> was created, back in the Great Depression, about one third of senior
>>> citizens were either living in the streets and eating out of garbage
>>> cans, or they were eeking out a miserable existence and unwanted in
>>> their children's homes and apartments.  And Social Security doesn't
>>> just stop there, because it's not just a program for the poor, it also
>>> has worked wonders in protecting the middle class against the ravages
>>> of in?ation and all the extreme changes that are so ever present in
>>> the ups and downs of the market.
>>> 
>>> For more than 70 years, Americans have taken Social Security for
>>> granted.  It's like that very useful organs which you have always had
>>> that you never thought about, but you better think about it now as it
>>> is about to be cut off from your body.
>>> 
>>> So let's think about it.  Social Security works almost like an employer
>>> pension: you pay into the system during your working years and then you
>>> receive a monthly pension during retirement.
>>> 
>>> And it's a very fair system, because what you put in is related to what
>>> you get out, meaning that workers with higher wages, who pay more into
>>> the system, they receive higher bene?ts later on.  But it also
>>> benefits workers with lower wages, such as those who were disabled in
>>> the work place and unable to earn any more money, for these poor souls,
>>> Social Security is disproportionately more generous to the poor than to
>>> the rich.
>>> 
>>> SS has been the most successful anti-poverty program ever.  In
>>> addition, Social Security is indexed against in?ation, protecting
>>> Americans from the whip sawed ups and downs of the unpredictable
>>> ?nancial markets.  This is how the program also protects the
>>> financial security of the middle class.
>>> 
>>> Privatization would do away with all that, the whole idea of
>>> guaranteeing a basic minimum living income for the elderly who have
>>> worked all their lives.  Privatization will lead to massive poverty,
>>> because low-wage workers will never be able to generate enough funds in
>>> an individual account to maintain a decent standard of living in
>>> retirement.  And middle-class workers will also be more likely to enter
>>> poverty during old age.  Senior citizens will be at the total mercy of
>>> the markets, and those who did badly with their individual accounts
>>> will just NOT have enough from other sources to live on.
>>> 
>>> And for all those who live a good long and healthy life, as us
>>> Democrats hope everyone would, when they reach their 80s or 90s they
>>> will simply outlast their individual accounts, and what they do receive
>>> in their annuities will be severely eroded by in?ation.
>>> 
>>> The elderly used to have the highest rate of poverty in our country,
>>> until Social Security was created.  No one notices, but now the poverty
>>> rate among the elderly has fallen dramatically, to just 10 percent for
>>> those over 65.  For many millions of the elderly, they are no longer
>>> poor, because of Social Security, and SS is also their single biggest
>>> source of income.  Indirectly, their working-age children are one of
>>> the biggest bene?ciaries, because of the hugely successful program,
>>> the elderly no longer have to move in with their children.
>>> 
>>> People under age 65 also bene?t from two other elements of Social
>>> Security that often get forgotten: bene?ts for the long-term disabled
>>> and for the survivor bene?ts of orphans and those who depend on a
>>> worker who dies before retirement.  Cold hearted and immoral
>>> Republicans would just love to toss all these helpless orphans into the
>>> streets so they can satisfy their lust to hurt and abuse vulnerable
>>> people.
>>> 
>>> Privatization erodes and becomes exhausted with advanced age, but
>>> Social Security as it exists today keeps its value continuously with
>>> the annual cost-of-living adjustment built into it.  SS privatization
>>> and employer based pension plans have a narrowly de?ned bene?t plan
>>> with an uncertain payout, and today's workers are already bearing more
>>> risk for retirement than they should be. Now, more than ever, Social
>>> Security provides a very valuable hedge against these uncertain
>>> ?nancial markets.
>>> 
>>> It is unavoidable that Bush's privatization plan will accompany sharp
>>> reductions in future bene?ts for the younger workers who opt to
>>> remain in the system.  The result is that Social Security will appear
>>> to be such a bad deal that it will trigger a run on the system.
>>> Workers will be even more likely to not only opt for private accounts
>>> but demand that the entire SS program become optional.
>>> 
>>> Republicans have tried to foster a distrust of Social Security by
>>> painting a grim picture of SS's future and painting an unjustified rosy
>>> scenario for private accounts.  Republicans projections assume a
>>> 1.7-percent future growth rate for the economy, but the private
>>> accounts they project is at a 7-percent growth rate for the stock
>>> market.  Their mathematics is, as always, flawed.  If the economy grows
>>> at 1.7 percent, the stock market can�t possibly grow at 7 percent.
>>> And if economy grows as smartly as they assume it will for private
>>> accounts, then there will be no crisis in Social Security.
>>> 
>>> Social Security protects all the American people against all risks to
>>> ensure them a basic income in their old age, enabling the people who
>>> have struggled all their lives to look forward to a decent standard of
>>> comfort and dignity when they retire.  It will be the crime of the
>>> century to let Bush and the Republicans undermine and eventually
>>> eliminate Social Security with this disingenios scheme of theirs.
>>> Don't let them do it.
>>> 
>>> Abel
>>> http://www.movingideas.org/content/en/from_members/10.htm
>>>