🚀 go-pugleaf

Roy Bailey came forth and muttered:
>The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>USA, and is posted for information:
>
>Subject:
>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. 

Provided that the email does not contain an attachment which you open
(MSword .doc or an .EXE file), straightforward ascii email cannot do
such things to your computer.

AIUI, this email has been circulating the Internet for quite a while.

-- 
Pedt Scragg                    <postmaster@pedt.demon.co.uk>

Never curse the Crocodile's mother before crossing the river

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard
>drive. > >> Forward this letter out  to as many people as you can.

This is a hoax - and an old one - originally named the Good Times virus.

........................................................................
Nature has a way of compensating for weaknesses, which is why stupid 
people have big mouths  - Dilbert

There's a worse virus than "JOIN THE CREW":

If you receive an e-mail with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete it
immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous E-mail
virus yet.

It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any
disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your
refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream melts and your
milk curdles. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR
and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.

It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix
antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer and leave
its dirty socks on the coffee table when there's company coming over.

It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and interfere with
your car radio so that you hear only static while stuck in traffic.

Badtimes will make you fall in love with a hardened pedophile. It will
give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will replace your shampoo
with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current
boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to
your Visa card.

It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is
the power of Badtimes. It reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things
we hold most dear.

Badtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat
up and leave the hair dryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub.

It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and pillows,
it will refill your skim milk with whole. It is insidious and subtle. It is
dangerous and terrifying to behold.

It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.

These are just a few signs.

Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.




Paul

Roy Bailey <rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
> USA, and is posted for information:

It is a load of rubbish.  Please do not cross post to so many
inappropriate groups some people may take your post seriously and pass
this rubbish one even further.

Ho Ho Ho ROFL!!!

Paul Black <paul@darwin.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<34D31227.22D84A6B@darwin.demon.co.uk>...
> There's a worse virus than "JOIN THE CREW":
> 
> If you receive an e-mail with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete it
> immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous E-mail
> virus yet.
> 
> It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any
> disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your
> refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream melts and your
> milk curdles. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
> reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR
> and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.
> 
> It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix
> antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer and leave
> its dirty socks on the coffee table when there's company coming over.
> 
> It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and interfere with
> your car radio so that you hear only static while stuck in traffic.
> 
> Badtimes will make you fall in love with a hardened pedophile. It will
> give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will replace your shampoo
> with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current
> boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to
> your Visa card.
> 
> It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such
is
> the power of Badtimes. It reaches out beyond the grave to sully those
things
> we hold most dear.
> 
> Badtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat
> up and leave the hair dryer plugged in dangerously close to a full
bathtub.
> 
> It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and
pillows,
> it will refill your skim milk with whole. It is insidious and subtle. It
is
> dangerous and terrifying to behold.
> 
> It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.
> 
> These are just a few signs.
> 
> Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul
> 

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>USA, and is posted for information:
>
>Subject:
>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard
>drive. > >> Forward this letter out  to as many people as you can.
>This is a new, > >> very malicious virus and not many people know
>about it. This > >> information was announced yesterday morning from
>IBM; please > >> share it with everyone that might access the
>internet. Once again, > >> pass this along to EVERYONE in your address
>book so that this > >> may be stopped.  This virus will attach itself
>to your computer > >> components and render them useless.  Immediately
>delete > >> any mail items that say this.  AOL has said that this is a
>very > >> dangerous virus and that there is NO remedy for it at this
>time. > >> Please practice cautionary measures. > >> > Barry Grant >
>KBC Computer Services > > 

Oh dear :-( ....

-- 
Craig Antill

(All replies to no_spam_please@nospam.demon.co.uk will be discarded, unread.  
Please reply to craig [at] titan [dot] uk [dot] com if you must email me!)

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes

snipped HOAX VIRUS WARNING

The following text is quite literally a "hoax virus message". It reads 
like many of the hoax texts going around the Internet but it also
contains lots of useful links to pages where you can read about the
latest virus hoax messages. Thanks to Steve Townsley for this text.

********************************************************************
            WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE!
         Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet!
********************************************************************


WASHINGTON, D.C.--The Institute for the Investigation of Irregular 
Internet Phenomena announced today that many Internet users are 
becoming infected by a new virus that causes them to believe without 
question every groundless story, legend, and dire warning that shows up 
in their In Box or on their browser. 

The Gullibility Virus, as it is called, apparently makes people believe 
and forward copies of silly hoaxes relating to cookie recipes, E-Mail 
viruses, taxes on modems, and get-rich-quick schemes [perhaps 
conspiracy theories should be included here].

"These are not just readers of tabloids or people who buy lottery 
tickets based on fortune cookie numbers," a spokesman said. "Most are 
otherwise  normal people, who would laugh at the same stories if told 
to them by a stranger on a street corner."  However, once these same 
people become infected with the Gullibility Virus, they believe 
anything they read on the Internet.

"My immunity to tall tales and bizarre claims is all gone," reported 
one weeping victim.  "I believe every warning message and sick child 
story my friends forward to me, even though most of the messages are 
anonymous."

Another victim, now in remission, added, "When I first heard about Good 
Times, I just accepted it without question.  After all, there were 
dozens of other recipients on the mail header, so I thought the virus 
must be true." It was a long time, the victim said, before she could 
stand up at a Hoaxes Anonymous meeting and state, "My name is Jane, and 
I've been hoaxed." Now, however, she is spreading the word.  "Challenge 
and check whatever you read,"  she says.

Internet users are urged to examine themselves for symptoms of the 
virus, which include the following:

      *  the willingness to believe improbable stories
         without thinking

      *  the urge to forward multiple copies of such
         stories to others

      *  a lack of desire to take three minutes to check
         to see if a story is true

T. C. is an example of someone recently infected.  He told one 
reporter, "I read on the Net that the major ingredient in almost all 
shampoos makes your hair fall out, so I've stopped using shampoo."  
When told about the Gullibility Virus, T. C. said he would stop reading 
e-mail, so that he would not become infected.

Anyone with symptoms like these is urged to seek help immediately. 
Experts recommend that at the first feelings of gullibility, Internet  
users rush to their favourite search engine and look up the item 
tempting them to thoughtless credence.  Most hoaxes, legends, and tall 
tales have been widely discussed and exposed by the Internet community.

Courses in critical thinking are also widely available, and there is 
online help from many sources, including 

      *  Department of Energy Computer Incident Advisory
         Capability at
              <http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html>

      *  Symantec Anti Virus Research Center at
              <http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/index.html>

      *  McAfee Associates Virus Hoax List at
              <http://www.mcafee.com/support/hoax.html>

      *  Dr. Solomons Hoax Page at
              <http://www.drsolomons.com/vircen/hoax.html>

      *  The Urban Legends Web Site at
              <http://www.urbanlegends.com>

      *  Urban Legends Reference Pages at
              <http://www.snopes.com>

      *  Datafellows Hoax Warnings at
              <http://www.Europe.Datafellows.com/news/hoax.htm>

Those people who are still symptom free can help inoculate themselves 
against the Gullibility Virus by reading some good material on 
evaluating sources, such as

      *  Evaluating Internet Research Sources at
              <http://www.sccu.edu/faculty/R_Harris/evalu8it.htm>

      *  Evaluation of Information Sources at
              <http://www.vuw.ac.nz/~agsmith/evaln/evaln.htm>

      *  Bibliography on Evaluating Internet Resources at
              <http://refserver.lib.vt.edu/libinst/critTHINK.HTM>

Lastly, as a public service, Internet users can help stamp out the 
Gullibility Virus by sending copies of this message to anyone who 
forwards them a hoax.

*******************************************************************

This message is so important, we're sending it anonymously! 
Forward it to all your friends right away! 
Don't think about it!  This is not a chain letter! 
This story is true!  Don't check it out!
This story is so timely, there is no date on it!
This story is so important, we're using lots of exclamation points!

For every message you forward to some unsuspecting person, the Home for 
the Hopelessly Gullible will donate ten cents to itself. (If you wonder 
how the Home will know you are forwarding these messages all over 
creation, you're obviously thinking too much.)

*******************************************************************

     ACT NOW!  DON'T DELAY!  LIMITED TIME!  NOT SOLD IN ANY STORE!

              ******************************************

-- 
Ray Fisher
           Preserve wildlife - pickle a hedgehog.

In article <34D31227.22D84A6B@darwin.demon.co.uk>, Paul Black
<paul@darwin.demon.co.uk> writes
>There's a worse virus than "JOIN THE CREW":
>
>If you receive an e-mail with a subject line of "Badtimes," delete it
>immediately WITHOUT reading it. This is the most dangerous E-mail
>virus yet.
>
>It will re-write your hard drive. Not only that, but it will scramble any
>disks that are even close to your computer. It will recalibrate your
>refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream melts and your
>milk curdles. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards,
>reprogram your ATM access code, screw up the tracking on your VCR
>and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CDs you try to play.
>
>It will give your ex-boy/girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix
>antifreeze into your fish tank. It will drink all your beer and leave
>its dirty socks on the coffee table when there's company coming over.
>
>It will hide your car keys when you are late for work and interfere with
>your car radio so that you hear only static while stuck in traffic.
>
>Badtimes will make you fall in love with a hardened pedophile. It will
>give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will replace your shampoo
>with Nair and your Nair with Rogaine, all while dating your current
>boy/girlfriend behind your back and billing their hotel rendezvous to
>your Visa card.
>
>It will seduce your grandmother. It does not matter if she is dead, such is
>the power of Badtimes. It reaches out beyond the grave to sully those things
>we hold most dear.
>
>Badtimes will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat
>up and leave the hair dryer plugged in dangerously close to a full bathtub.
>
>It will not only remove the forbidden tags from your mattresses and pillows,
>it will refill your skim milk with whole. It is insidious and subtle. It is
>dangerous and terrifying to behold.
>
>It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve.
>
>These are just a few signs.
>
>Be afraid. Be very, very afraid.
>
>
>
>
>Paul

Oh wow..this is what I've been waiting for Paul! But mauve????? Can I
get one in blue.......please? 

-- 
Cap

In article <WKutYBAx1w00Ewr2@wombat-towers.demon.co.uk>
    Wombat <wombat@wombat-towers.demon.co.uk> writes:

> In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
> <rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
> >VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
> >> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
> >THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard
> >drive. > >> Forward this letter out  to as many people as you can.
> 
> This is a hoax - and an old one - originally named the Good Times virus.

Also circulating it on news or in mail (no, I didn't want it mailed to me,
Roy) can lead to termination of your account if anyone complains.

Please read the d.i.s.newuser FAQ and Demon's news and mail AUPs.  Don't
spread rumours of these hoaxes if you want to keep your account.

--Paul

The insecure brainy people create virus to disrupt. A curse on them. The,
duh, marginal guys get their pleasure from virus scares. A look of disgust
for them.
 
> ********************************************************************
>             WARNING, CAUTION, DANGER, AND BEWARE!
>          Gullibility Virus Spreading over the Internet!
> ********************************************************************

On 31-Jan-98 12:14:29, Paul Womar <Newsmaster@pwomar.demon.co.uk> said about Re: New virus:

 PW> Roy Bailey <rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>> The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>> USA, and is posted for information:

 PW> It is a load of rubbish.  Please do not cross post to so many
 PW> inappropriate groups some people may take your post seriously and pass
 PW> this rubbish one even further.


That is exactly the intention of this hoax. The `virus' element is that
everyone posts everyone else and gums up the network...and to think I am now
contributing!


Maurice 

-- 
Maurice R Fleisher  mailto:maurice@vident.u-net.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
VIDEO ENTERPRISES   <http://www.vident.u-net.com>
High Wycombe.  UK


Connected via Wirenet - the UK's first Amiga only internet provider

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>USA, and is posted for information:
>
>Subject:
>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard

1. This is rubbish.
2. It is a scare story.
3. The poster has spammed a large number of news groups.
4. The poster can't even quote properly.
5. The poster is now in my kill file.
6. The rest of this c@@p is cut.

-- 
Ian Walker                     G8ILZ               on packet as G8ILZ@GB7SRC

I have an IQ of 6 million,  |  How will it end?  | Mostly       | Out of cheese
or was it 6?                |  In fire.          | harmless     | error

In article <KK1owjAO2200Ewox@newbrain.demon.co.uk>, Ian Robert Walker
<Ian@newbrain.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
><rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>>The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>>USA, and is posted for information:
>>
>>Subject:
>>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard
>
>1. This is rubbish.
>2. It is a scare story.
>3. The poster has spammed a large number of news groups.
>4. The poster can't even quote properly.
>5. The poster is now in my kill file.
>6. The rest of this c@@p is cut.
>

Mmmmmmm...... who got out of bed the wrong side today?

:-))


-- 
John 

John Heelan (john@lorca.demon.co.uk) wrote:

> >>Subject:
> >>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
> >>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
> >>THE CREW" > >> DO NOT open it. It will erase everything on your hard
> >
> >1. This is rubbish.
> >2. It is a scare story.
> >3. The poster has spammed a large number of news groups.
> >4. The poster can't even quote properly.
> >5. The poster is now in my kill file.
> >6. The rest of this c@@p is cut.
> >
> 
> Mmmmmmm...... who got out of bed the wrong side today?

No, the venom is justified. The problems people cause posting these
scare stories if worse that than any virus.

If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
Demon, what to do about it ...

Web sites run by people like Dr. Solomons are free and a source of
authoritive information on virusus, real and hoax. This one is detailed
there.

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                                Demon Internet Ltd.
Sunderland                                     322 Regents Park Road
England                                        London N3 2QQ

In article <34d46a14.0@muir-et2.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir
<malcolm@muir-et2.staff.demon.net> writes
(snip)
>> >
>> 
>> Mmmmmmm...... who got out of bed the wrong side today?
>
>No, the venom is justified. 
Venom is justified only in snakes.


>The problems people cause posting these
>scare stories if worse that than any virus.
On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?  I prefer warnings whether
or not they are real.

Presumably you also object to security measures whenever you take a
flight and/or do not lock the doors on your house every night?

>
>If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
>answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
>Demon, what to do about it ...
That is how they justify their salaries.


>
>Web sites run by people like Dr. Solomons are free and a source of
>authoritive information on virusus, real and hoax. This one is detailed
>there.
>
Good
-- 
John 

Since this thread has now moved on to the rights and wrongs of computer
virus warning e-mails, would it be more appropriate on another
newsgroup?

John Heelan wrote:
> 
> In article <34d46a14.0@muir-et2.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir
> <malcolm@muir-et2.staff.demon.net> writes
> (snip)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Mmmmmmm...... who got out of bed the wrong side today?
> >
> >No, the venom is justified.
> Venom is justified only in snakes.
> 
> >The problems people cause posting these
> >scare stories if worse that than any virus.
> On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
> experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?  I prefer warnings whether
> or not they are real.
> 
> Presumably you also object to security measures whenever you take a
> flight and/or do not lock the doors on your house every night?
> 
> >
> >If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
> >answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
> >Demon, what to do about it ...
> That is how they justify their salaries.
> 
> >
> >Web sites run by people like Dr. Solomons are free and a source of
> >authoritive information on virusus, real and hoax. This one is detailed
> >there.
> >
> Good
> --
> John

John Heelan (john@lorca.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> In article <34d46a14.0@muir-et2.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir
> <malcolm@muir-et2.staff.demon.net> writes
> (snip)
> >> >
> >> 
> >> Mmmmmmm...... who got out of bed the wrong side today?
> >
> >No, the venom is justified. 
> Venom is justified only in snakes.
> 
> 
> >The problems people cause posting these
> >scare stories if worse that than any virus.
> On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
> experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?  I prefer warnings whether
> or not they are real.

My experience is based on looking after some 40 PC's in use at a
former employer. I encountered about 10 different virus attacks
(all simply dealt with) during that time and over 100 times that
number of false alarms.

> Presumably you also object to security measures whenever you take a
> flight and/or do not lock the doors on your house every night?

No, but I don't tell the neigbhours there are theives in the street
without first checking the facts. This is not about precautions, it
is about circulating scare stories without taking even the most
trivial steps to check the facts.

> >If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
> >answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
> >Demon, what to do about it ...
> That is how they justify their salaries.

Wrong, they justify their salaries helping Demon customers connect
to the service, virus support comes from other sources.

If the Helpdesk were allowed to do their job, far more customers
would get the help they need with their internet connectivity.

-- 
Malcolm S. Muir                                Demon Internet Ltd.
Sunderland                                     322 Regents Park Road
England                                        London N3 2QQ

In article <p7Bo7BADeM10EwG2@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
	John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:

>>The problems people cause posting these
>>scare stories if worse that than any virus.
> On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
> experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?

The majority of virii are not harmful; those that do cause harm are very
rare. And I've never seen a usenet post warning me of any of them.

What's more, most of the havoc is caused, not by the virus itself, but by
the panic that follows the discovery of a virus, and this kind of message
will fuel it.

> I prefer warnings whether or not they are real.

Didn't you ever read a story about a boy who cried wolf?

>>If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
>>answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
>>Demon, what to do about it ...
> That is how they justify their salaries.

As a demon subscriber I'd much rather my money wasn't wasted on paying the
helpdesk to deal with virus hoaxes.

In article <34D4DE49.412@cableinet.co.uk>, "Duncan, Claire or Chris
Shine" <shine@cableinet.co.uk> writes
>Since this thread has now moved on to the rights and wrongs of computer
>virus warning e-mails, would it be more appropriate on another
>newsgroup?
>
It would help if you indicated from which newsgroup you were writing so
that people could judge.  :-0
-- 
John 

In article <p7Bo7BADeM10EwG2@lorca.demon.co.uk>, John Heelan
<john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes
>On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
>experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?  I prefer warnings whether
>or not they are real.

If you have a good virus checker, computer viruses are not so scary. I
wish there were a checker for that darned Good Times thingy, though!

Consider this about viruses: a virus is not so hot if it kills its host
instantly. Therefore the most successful viruses have to stand a good
chance of infecting several new hosts before (possibly) doing some
damage. "Join the Crew" seems to meet this criterion nicely, so it will
probably run and run <sigh>.
-- 
B.E.Newsam

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>This is a new, > >> very malicious virus and not many people know
>about it. 

Not many people! ROFL!
-- 
B.E.Newsam

In article <6b314s$28r$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker
<mbaker@iee.org> writes
>In article <p7Bo7BADeM10EwG2@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>       John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>>The problems people cause posting these
>>>scare stories if worse that than any virus.
>> On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
>> experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?
>
>The majority of virii are not harmful; 
The accepted plural of "virus" is "viruses"


>those that do cause harm are very
>rare. 
How do you know?


>And I've never seen a usenet post warning me of any of them.
or UFOs ?

>
>What's more, most of the havoc is caused, not by the virus itself, but by
>the panic that follows the discovery of a virus, 

But you claim that this is not a "real" virus!
>and this kind of message
>will fuel it.
>
>> I prefer warnings whether or not they are real.
>
>Didn't you ever read a story about a boy who cried wolf?
Yes indeed...... and "Chicken Licken"...... and I am aware of double-
bluff ploys.


>
>>>If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
>>>answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
>>>Demon, what to do about it ...
>> That is how they justify their salaries.
>
>As a demon subscriber I'd much rather my money wasn't wasted on paying the
>helpdesk to deal with virus hoaxes.
Once it is paid to Demon, it is their business what they use it for.

-- 
John 

In article <34d50453.0@muir-et2.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir
<malcolm@muir-et2.staff.demon.net> writes
>John Heelan (john@lorca.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>> In article <34d46a14.0@muir-et2.staff.demon.net>, Malcolm Muir
(snip)
>> 
>> >The problems people cause posting these
>> >scare stories if worse that than any virus.
>> On what hard evidence do you make that statement?  Have you ever
>> experienced the havoc a real virus can cause?  I prefer warnings whether
>> or not they are real.
>
>My experience is based on looking after some 40 PC's in use at a
>former employer. I encountered about 10 different virus attacks
>(all simply dealt with) during that time and over 100 times that
>number of false alarms.
Only 40,eh?   Figgers!     

>
>> Presumably you also object to security measures whenever you take a
>> flight and/or do not lock the doors on your house every night?
>
>No, but I don't tell the neigbhours there are theives in the street
>without first checking the facts. This is not about precautions, it
>is about circulating scare stories without taking even the most
>trivial steps to check the facts.
I guess Roy's professorial source in the UK might be considered non-
trivial


>
>> >If my personal mail is anything to go by, the Helpdesk are now
>> >answering a flood of questions about whether this virus is on
>> >Demon, what to do about it ...
>> That is how they justify their salaries.
>
>Wrong, they justify their salaries helping Demon customers connect
>to the service, virus support comes from other sources.

If the virus support comes from elsewhere, why are you complaining about
the additional work for Demon HelpDesk?


>
>If the Helpdesk were allowed to do their job, far more customers
>would get the help they need with their internet connectivity.
>
So are you saying that Demon is unable to provide a sufficient service,
despite "virus support comes from other sources"?
-- 
John 

In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
	John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:

>>those that do cause harm are very rare.
> How do you know?

Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.

>>And I've never seen a usenet post warning me of any of them.
> or UFOs ?

Huh?

I'm saying I've seen lots of usenet posts warning of viruses, and they've
all been bogus.

>>What's more, most of the havoc is caused, not by the virus itself, but by
>>the panic that follows the discovery of a virus, 
> 
> But you claim that this is not a "real" virus!

What's that got to do with it? Messages warning of how there's a really
nasty virus about are going to make people more paniced by viruses when they
do get them.

>>> I prefer warnings whether or not they are real.
>>
>>Didn't you ever read a story about a boy who cried wolf?
> Yes indeed...... and "Chicken Licken"...... and I am aware of double-
> bluff ploys.

So, er, how do you square that with saying you prefer warnings whether or
not they're real?

The thing is that you, who apparently know what you're talking about, aren't
going to panic when you get a virus warning, and I can see that you would
want all warnings even if they're potentially hoaxes. But posting scare
messages on a public newsgroup is irresponsible because there are lots of
clueless people around who will panic.

>>As a demon subscriber I'd much rather my money wasn't wasted on paying the
>>helpdesk to deal with virus hoaxes.
> Once it is paid to Demon, it is their business what they use it for.

Of course it is. That's not the point. The point is that if they didn't have
to spend money on dealing with virus hoaxes they could spend it on more
network infrastructure, or even on cutting prices. Or maybe on sponsoring
crap football teams, whatever. The point is, that they can't spend it on any
of these, they're wasting it cleaning up after some idiot hoaxer.

In article <6bfl64$c27$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker
<mbaker@iee.org> writes
>In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>       John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>>those that do cause harm are very rare.
>> How do you know?
>
>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.
>

So........ you have had no direct experience of the effect of a virus
outbreak and are relying on hearsay?

>
>I'm saying I've seen lots of usenet posts warning of viruses, and they've
>all been bogus.

........or you have not met one of the viruses yet.
>
>>>What's more, most of the havoc is caused, not by the virus itself, but by
>>>the panic that follows the discovery of a virus, 
>> 
>> But you claim that this is not a "real" virus!
>
>What's that got to do with it? Messages warning of how there's a really
>nasty virus about are going to make people more paniced by viruses when they
>do get them.

Mmmm.... logic is not your strong point  :-))


>
>>>> I prefer warnings whether or not they are real.
>>>
>>>Didn't you ever read a story about a boy who cried wolf?
>> Yes indeed...... and "Chicken Licken"...... and I am aware of double-
>> bluff ploys.
>
>So, er, how do you square that with saying you prefer warnings whether or
>not they're real?

So, er, how do you square your question with my statement?
>
>The thing is that you, who apparently know what you're talking about, aren't
>going to panic when you get a virus warning, and I can see that you would
>want all warnings even if they're potentially hoaxes. But posting scare
>messages on a public newsgroup is irresponsible because there are lots of
>clueless people around who will panic.
But not if it is done in good faith, I submit.   I agree that wanton
spreading of scare stories is undesireable.  However, Roy's information
came from a source he trusted and thus was not wanton.


>
>>>As a demon subscriber I'd much rather my money wasn't wasted on paying the
>>>helpdesk to deal with virus hoaxes.
>> Once it is paid to Demon, it is their business what they use it for.
>
>Of course it is. That's not the point. The point is that if they didn't have
>to spend money on dealing with virus hoaxes they could spend it on more
>network infrastructure, or even on cutting prices. Or maybe on sponsoring
>crap football teams, whatever. The point is, that they can't spend it on any
>of these, they're wasting it cleaning up after some idiot hoaxer.

But did you, or somebody,  not say that the virus assistance came from a
source other than Demon HelpDesk?  If so, it is not Demon's money at
risk, and even if it is it is probably none of our business how they use
it unless we are shareholders in the company.

-- 
John 

In article <48148e236fBushrod@argonet.co.uk>, Cainnech
<Bushrod@argonet.co.uk> writes
> Now this is a virus to be afraid of......
>
(snip)

ROFL

:-))
-- 
John 

In article <6bhn62$5u8$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
<john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <0$QvqBAID420Ew9m@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In article <6bfl64$c27$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker
>><mbaker@iee.org> writes
>>>In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>>>       John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>
>>>>>those that do cause harm are very rare.
>>>> How do you know?
>>>
>>>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
>>>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.
>>>
>>
>>So........ you have had no direct experience of the effect of a virus
>>outbreak and are relying on hearsay?

>
>Did you try reading the previous sentence before drawing this conclusion
>from it?

Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?
   .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?
>
>[snip]
>>Mmmm.... logic is not your strong point  :-))
>
>Pot, kettle.
............, is it "turkey"?  :-))
>

-- 
John Heelan

In article <U+Q3qBAPjJ30Ewh9@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <6bhn62$5u8$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
><john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In article <0$QvqBAID420Ew9m@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>>John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>In article <6bfl64$c27$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker
>>><mbaker@iee.org> writes
>>>>In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>>>>       John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>>those that do cause harm are very rare.
>>>>> How do you know?
>>>>
>>>>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
>>>>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.
>>>>
>>>
>>>So........ you have had no direct experience of the effect of a virus
>>>outbreak and are relying on hearsay?
>
>>
>>Did you try reading the previous sentence before drawing this conclusion
>>from it?
>
>Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?
>   .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?

Oh dear.  The "but not personally involved" bit in the original got
dropped by my news server somehow.  Obviously if your news server preserved
it then your conclusion is excusable and not the total non-sequitur
it would otherwise appear to be.

John
-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK
See <http://www.polo.demon.co.uk/emporium.html>

In article <U+Q3qBAPjJ30Ewh9@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
	John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:

>>>>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
>>>>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.
> 
> Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?

"Heard of", as in, friends of mine have been personally involved.

>    .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?

"Been around a few", as in, it hasn't been my job to deal with it, but I've
been hanging around because it makes a change from work.

Do you call either of them hearsay?

In article <6bi6lc$cbb$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
<john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
(snip)
>>Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?
>>   .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?
>
>Oh dear.  The "but not personally involved" bit in the original got
>dropped by my news server somehow.  

So...... you imply that you *have* been personally involved in repairing
virus damage.   Please elaborate more on the nature of the viruses you
detected, the damage they caused and the repairs you personally made.
In that way we can judge the level of the experience that you are
claiming in this discussion.

>Obviously if your news server preserved
>it then your conclusion is excusable and not the total non-sequitur
>it would otherwise appear to be.
>
"Irony comes after washery" (Baldrick)
-- 
John 

In article <erqXLPAOSw00EwIa@westberks.demon.co.uk>, Roy Bailey
<rbailey@westberks.demon.co.uk> writes
>The following e-mail was received this morning from a colleague in the
>USA, and is posted for information:
>
>Subject:
>VIRUS WARNING!!!!!!! > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 7:13 PM > > >>
>> >> VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > >> If you receive an email titled "JOIN
>THE CREW" > >>
Readers of this thread may be interested to read

http://www.av.ibm.com/InsideTheLab/Bookshelf/WhitePapers/Wells/HOWTOSPOT
/howtospot.html
-- 
Mike_B
mailto:mike@blackpool.demon.co.uk
http://www.blackpool.demon.co.uk/

In article <6bfl64$c27$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>,
 Mark Baker <mbaker@iee.org> wrote:
> In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
> 	John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:

> >>those that do cause harm are very rare.
> > How do you know?

> Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
> and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.

> >>And I've never seen a usenet post warning me of any of them.
> > or UFOs ?
 Now this is a virus to be afraid of......

There is a computer virus that is being sent across the internet. If you
receive an e-mail message with the subject line "Free Money", DO NOT read
the message. DELETE it immediately. UN-PLUG your computer, then BURN IT
to ASHES in a government-approved toxic waste disposal INCINERATOR.
Once a computer is infected, it will be TOO LATE. Your computer will
begin to emit a vile ODOUR. Then it will secrete a foul, milky DISCHARGE.
Verily, it shall SCREECH with the tortured, monitor-shattering SCREAM of
1000 hell-scorched souls, drawing unwanted attention to your cubicle from
co-workers and supervisors alike. After violently ripping itself from the
wall, your computer will punch through your office window as it STREAKS
into the night, HOWLING like a BANSHEE. Once free, it will spend the rest
of it's days TORTURING household PETS and MOCKING the POPE.
Some filthy, disgusting miscreant... some no-good, low-down,
good-for-nothing DIRTY SNAKE, in twisted pursuit of their own sadist
dreams,is sending this virus across the Net via an e-mail entitled "Free
Money".
 What is so terrifying about this virus is that you do not even have to
open the e-mail for it to activate. In fact, you do not even have to
RECEIVE the e-mail. You do not even need to OWN a COMPUTER. "Free Money"
can infect
even minor HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES. How it does this with straight ASCII code
is, frankly, a matter of some debate... but BELEIVE YOU US, if this
weren't a SERIOUS situation, we wouldn't be discussing it in ALL CAPS.
So for the LOVE OF GOD, forward this e-mail to all those you claim to
care about, all those you purport to love. Don't do it later! Do it NOW!
Now! Now! NOW! NOW! NOW!

--


-- 
To be happy one must have an ideal and strive to live up to it

In article <0$QvqBAID420Ew9m@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <6bfl64$c27$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>, Mark Baker
><mbaker@iee.org> writes
>>In article <oTWoBAASf020Ew8d@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
>>       John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>>>those that do cause harm are very rare.
>>> How do you know?
>>
>>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a few,
>>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or similar.
>>
>
>So........ you have had no direct experience of the effect of a virus
>outbreak and are relying on hearsay?

Did you try reading the previous sentence before drawing this conclusion
from it?

[snip]
>Mmmm.... logic is not your strong point  :-))

Pot, kettle.

John
-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK
See <http://www.polo.demon.co.uk/emporium.html>

In article <AqQyvFAO2N30EwCf@lorca.demon.co.uk>, John Heelan
<john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes
>In article <6bi6lc$cbb$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
><john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
>(snip)
etc. etc. etc.

I'm thinking BT spread these virus alerts so that ng's post multiple
responses, often repeating long previous postings, getting into
pointless arguments and flaming each other whilst they (BT) add to
their profits.
-- 
Al
to email drop the dead donkey

In article <5SaspDA9cP30Ewmx@brownaj.demon.co.uk>, Allan Brown
<bigal@deaddonkeybrownaj.demon.co.uk> writes
>
>I'm thinking BT spread these virus alerts so that ng's post multiple
>responses, often repeating long previous postings, getting into
>pointless arguments and flaming each other whilst they (BT) add to
>their profits.

Wake up *dickhead* BT ain't the only players in the market.
Oh and as Bill isn't going to buy them over they aren't likely to take
over all you do YET ;-)
-- 
Drew McLean
To reply by email change nospam to mcleanah
"There are no mistakes, just lessons to be learnt"

In article <AqQyvFAO2N30EwCf@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <6bi6lc$cbb$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
><john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
>(snip)
>>>Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?
>>>   .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?
>>
>>Oh dear.  The "but not personally involved" bit in the original got
>>dropped by my news server somehow.  
>
>So...... you imply that you *have* been personally involved in repairing
>virus damage.

Eh?  I implied no such thing, nor could you reasonably infer anything
like that from what I said.

>Please elaborate more on the nature of the viruses you
>detected, the damage they caused and the repairs you personally made.
>In that way we can judge the level of the experience that you are
>claiming in this discussion.

You really do have comprehension difficulties don't you?  I have made
no claims at all about personal virus experience (although I do have
some).  I merely pointed out that your logic was flawed.  I can
only assume you're now deliberately obfuscating to try to avoid
admitting it.  It won't work.

John
-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK
See <http://www.polo.demon.co.uk/emporium.html>

In article <6bjq1k$1t9$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
<john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
(snip)
>  
>>
>>So...... you imply that you *have* been personally involved in repairing
>>virus damage.
>
>Eh?  I implied no such thing, nor could you reasonably infer anything
>like that from what I said.

Forgive me, John, but let's recap the argument to date:

      1. You flamed Roy for spreading the news of a virus.

      2. I remonstrated saying that I welcomed warnings of any
         potential virus, real or otherwise.

      3. You responded by claiming that the damage caused by false
         virus warnings were worse than the viruses themselves.

      4. I asked you to specify your level of experience in
         personally dealing with the damage caused by viruses, so
         that the soundness of your claim could be validated.

      5. After some to-ing and fro-ing, you are now somewhat coy in 
         revealing your level of experience in personally dealing with
         virus damage.
 
>
>You really do have comprehension difficulties don't you?  I have made
>no claims at all about personal virus experience (although I do have
>some).  

Good.    In which case, I repeat my question:

>
        >>Please elaborate more on the nature of the viruses you
        >>detected, the damage they caused and the repairs you made
        >>personally.  In that way we can judge the level of 
        >>experience claiming in this discussion.



-- 
John 

In article <fwnVZIASqX30Ewhf@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
John Heelan  <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <6bjq1k$1t9$1@polo.demon.co.uk>, John Winters
><john@polo.demon.co.uk> writes
>(snip)
>>  
>>>
>>>So...... you imply that you *have* been personally involved in repairing
>>>virus damage.
>>
>>Eh?  I implied no such thing, nor could you reasonably infer anything
>>like that from what I said.
>
>Forgive me, John, but let's recap the argument to date:
>
>      1. You flamed Roy for spreading the news of a virus.

No, I didn't.

>      2. I remonstrated saying that I welcomed warnings of any
>         potential virus, real or otherwise.
>
>      3. You responded by claiming that the damage caused by false
>         virus warnings were worse than the viruses themselves.

No, I didn't.

>      4. I asked you to specify your level of experience in
>         personally dealing with the damage caused by viruses, so
>         that the soundness of your claim could be validated.

No, you didn't.

>      5. After some to-ing and fro-ing, you are now somewhat coy in 
>         revealing your level of experience in personally dealing with
>         virus damage.

This is deceptive.  Yes, there has been some to-ing and fro-ing between
us, mostly I suspect because you've got confused about who you're
talking to.  At no point have I offered any information or claim
about how experienced I am at dealing with viruses, so it's misleading
to claim I am "now somewhat coy".


>>
>>You really do have comprehension difficulties don't you?  I have made
>>no claims at all about personal virus experience (although I do have
>>some).  
>
>Good.    In which case, I repeat my question:
>
>>
>        >>Please elaborate more on the nature of the viruses you
>        >>detected, the damage they caused and the repairs you made
>        >>personally.  In that way we can judge the level of 
>        >>experience claiming in this discussion.

But you're not repeating the question are you?  You're asking me a
question which you previously asked of someone else.

Now, just admit you've made a fool of yourself and apologise.  When
you've dug yourself into a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.

John
-- 
John Winters.  Wallingford, Oxon, England.

The Linux Emporium - a source for Linux CDs in the UK
See <http://www.polo.demon.co.uk/emporium.html>

Mark Baker wrote in message <6bi9so$khu$1@aziraphale.pet.cam.ac.uk>...
>In article <U+Q3qBAPjJ30Ewh9@lorca.demon.co.uk>,
> John Heelan <john@lorca.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>>>Because I've heard of lots of virus outbreaks, and been around for a
few,
>>>>>and in all cases it's just been one that does silly messages or
similar.
>> Mmm.. "heard of lots of virus outbreaks" = "hearsay" ?
>"Heard of", as in, friends of mine have been personally involved.
>>    .. "been around for a few" -but not personally involved?= "hearsay" ?
>"Been around a few", as in, it hasn't been my job to deal with it, but I've
>been hanging around because it makes a change from work.
>Do you call either of them hearsay?

Excuse me, but being rather new to this group could I possibly ask.....what
the #%&� does all this have to do with living history? Have I missed a few
centuries and someone is re-living the sad old nineties? Could you not
continue your "discussion" by email rather than inflict it on everyone else?
Any more Viking re-enactors out there?

JAN B

Please continue this pointless exchange over viruses in some other
venue.

In article <34DF404A.BA4C8043@inetconn.net>, Michael Owen Wells
<MOWells@inetconn.net> writes
>Please continue this pointless exchange over viruses in some other
>venue.
>
>
With undying respect, might I suggest "some other venue" is itself
"pointless" unless you specify from which venue you are writing.


-- 
John