🚀 go-pugleaf

John Navas wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 08:24:04 -0700, in <hvinei$4k0$4@speranza.aioe.org>,
> JC Dill <jcdill.lists@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> John Navas wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Jun 2010 01:44:26 GMT, in
>>> <hvh7dqg3aa002malch@news.sonic.net>, malch@malch.com (Malcolm Hoar)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <ec4o165c3s0ac1n3u4ifmv5unffkholfuf@4ax.com>, John Navas <jncl1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "However, we can already state that [...] Google did indeed record
>>>>> e-mail access passwords [and] extracts of the content of email
>>>>> messages."
>>>> That's not good but if folks are using cleartext passwords
>>>> over a wireless connection, they really shouldn't have a
>>>> "reasonable expectation of privacy".
>>> I respectfully disagree -- the problem is the fundamentally flawed POP3
>>> protocol that many (most?) ISPs still use -- it shouldn't take a
>>> computer science degree to use basic Internet services.  Shame on us.
>> Most ISPs offer protected protocols.  
> 
> Some do, some do not, 

Correct.  When "most do" then obviously "some do not".

> and there's no excuse for those that still market
> and provide unsafe and insecure service.

Bullshit.

> 
>> I use protected protocols with all 
>> my email accounts on 3 different ISPs.
> 
> You're not typical.
> 
>> Most end users don't bother to learn how to setup their software to use 
>> the protected protocols.  This is not the ISPs fault.
> 
> It absolutely is the fault of the ISP to market and provide an unsafe
> and insecure mail protocol to non-experts, 

More bullshit.  Many users use software that can only fetch email with 
POP3.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with offering this protocol for 
those who request it.

> just as it would be the fault
> of a car manufacturer to make a car without enough bolts to hold on the
> wheels.  

That's a very stupid analogy, but I'm not surprised you brought it up 
because it's exactly what I expected of you.

A much better analogy is like selling a car where you can't easily lock 
all of the doors with one button or twist of the key.  Where you have to 
actually take the time to lock each door individually.

> Average users are not required to become computer experts just to use
> standard Internet services safely.

They don't have to be experts.  They only have to ask the question - is 
this the most secure way to setup my system?

jc