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"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message 
news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010

The important thing is....was he baptised by water immersion AFTER he came 
to a knowledge of Christ.
If not, his hope of salvation has been in vain.

We must be "Born of water......and of the spirit"
"Marvel not, ye must be born again"
__
Veff... 

"1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist" <broadband1234[remove]@ntlworld.com>
wrote in message news:7r1mvaF6iiU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
> news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
> > Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> > Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
> The important thing is....was he baptised by water immersion AFTER he came
> to a knowledge of Christ.
> If not, his hope of salvation has been in vain.
>
> We must be "Born of water......and of the spirit"
> "Marvel not, ye must be born again"

The need for baptism ended at the cross!!

"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010

I wonder what will happen when he gets to the pearly gates and Jesus says to
him -

Couldn't you fucking read?? I told you to call no man your father on the
earth!!

Smile.

Steve Hayes wrote:
> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
> 
> http://su.pr/Agsu7k

Memory Eternal!



-- 
Catherine Jefferson <ariel@devsite.org>
Personal Home Page      *         <http://www.devsite.org/>
The SpamBouncer         *     <http://www.spambouncer.org/>

"AzzMazta" <penachew@yomomma.hot.invalid> wrote in message
news:higbn4$af$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Zadok wrote:
>
> >
> > Couldn't you fucking read?? I told you to call no man your father on the
> > earth!!
>
> Does this mean only people who both (1) are born to single mothers and
never
> meet their father, and (2) are either (a) not Catholic or (b) a Catholic
> who doesn't speak English (e.g. Italians use "Don" for priests), won't
have
> to deal with this issue at the Final Judgment?
>
> I think in that passage Jesus was criticizing elitism in general. The
> Gospels are full of that kind of language - another example is Matthew
> 5:29-30. Christ doesn't want you to start chopping body parts - He was
just
> saying that you should do everything possible to avoid sin.

If you would read Matthew 23, you would see that Jesus mentions, Master,
Rabbi and Father,
and you would realize that they were all titles.
Then you would also see where Jesus tells them not to EXALT themselves,
which is what a title does.

See that is the difference between my having a daddy, and you calling a
preist Father.
One is a biological fact and one is a title.

Clear enough now??

Smile.

> Zadok wrote:
> I told you to call no man your father on the
> earth!!

Oh! dear, oh! dear, that's a terrible blasphemy he has to answer for, 
allowing himself to be called "Father" which Christ has forbidden.

1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist wrote:
>> Zadok wrote:
>> I told you to call no man your father on the
>> earth!!
>
> Oh! dear, oh! dear, that's a terrible blasphemy he has to answer for,
> allowing himself to be called "Father" which Christ has forbidden.

Yeah, God yelling from Heaven: "Who's Yer Daddy???"

-- 
Hidden Draggin - Gilbert Hansford
CEO of the Brown and Mushy Corporation
http://hiddendraggin.posterous.com/ 

On Jan 11, 4:53 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
> http://su.pr/Agsu7k
>
> --
> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Dear Steve,

What does "charismatic" imply exactly?  I am trying to fit the
adjective with Orthodox Christianity and cannot see how it fits.

On Jan 11, 5:28 pm, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove]@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Steve Hayes" <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
>
> news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
>
> > Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> > Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
> The important thing is....was he baptised by water immersion AFTER he came
> to a knowledge of Christ.
> If not, his hope of salvation has been in vain.
>
> We must be "Born of water......and of the spirit"
> "Marvel not, ye must be born again"
> __
> Veff...

having had a Trinitarian baptism involving some water sprinkled over
the body, Episcopalians are normally not rebaptized when they become
Orthodox

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:28:00 -0000, "1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist"
<broadband1234[remove]@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>"Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message 
>news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
>> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
>> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
>The important thing is....was he baptised by water immersion AFTER he came 
>to a knowledge of Christ.
>If not, his hope of salvation has been in vain.

Of course he was. 

But have YOU come to knowledge of Christ?

Do YOU believe in him as King and God?

THAT is the question. 


-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:08:18 -0800 (PST), "++" <galja101@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 11, 4:53�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
>> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>>
>> http://su.pr/Agsu7k
>>
>> --
>> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
>> Web: �http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
>> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
>> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
>
>Dear Steve,
>
>What does "charismatic" imply exactly?  I am trying to fit the
>adjective with Orthodox Christianity and cannot see how it fits.

The charismatic renewal movement flourished in Western denominations in the
period 1960-1990, after which it declined somewhat. It emphasised the "gifts
of the Holy Spirit", especially speaking in tongues, prophcy and healing, and
in that respect was similar to the Pentecostal movement that began about 60-70
years earlier, but mainly led to the establishment of new denominations. The
charismatic renewal movement took place *within* existing denominations. Fr
Michael was a pioneer of this among the Anglicans. 



-- 
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

Steve Hayes wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:08:18 -0800 (PST), "++" <galja101@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> >On Jan 11, 4:53�pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the
> Orthodox >> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
> > > 
> >> http://su.pr/Agsu7k
> > > 
> >> --
> >> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> >> Web: �http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> >> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
> >> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org
> full stop uk
> > 
> > Dear Steve,
> > 
> > What does "charismatic" imply exactly?  I am trying to fit the
> > adjective with Orthodox Christianity and cannot see how it fits.
> 
> The charismatic renewal movement flourished in Western denominations
> in the period 1960-1990, after which it declined somewhat. It
> emphasised the "gifts of the Holy Spirit", especially speaking in
> tongues, prophcy and healing, and in that respect was similar to the
> Pentecostal movement that began about 60-70 years earlier, but mainly
> led to the establishment of new denominations. The charismatic
> renewal movement took place within existing denominations. Fr Michael
> was a pioneer of this among the Anglicans.

***If I'm not mistaken, Alexander Arnakis' wife is connected with the
charismatic movement in the Episcopal Church in the U.S.

On Jan 11, 11:37 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:08:18 -0800 (PST), "++" <galja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 11, 4:53 pm, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
> >> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
> >>http://su.pr/Agsu7k
>
> >> --
> >> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> >> Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> >> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
> >> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
>
> >Dear Steve,
>
> >What does "charismatic" imply exactly?  I am trying to fit the
> >adjective with Orthodox Christianity and cannot see how it fits.
>
> The charismatic renewal movement flourished in Western denominations in the
> period 1960-1990, after which it declined somewhat. It emphasised the "gifts
> of the Holy Spirit", especially speaking in tongues, prophcy and healing, and
> in that respect was similar to the Pentecostal movement that began about 60-70
> years earlier, but mainly led to the establishment of new denominations. The
> charismatic renewal movement took place *within* existing denominations. Fr
> Michael was a pioneer of this among the Anglicans.

I was unaware we had anything like this as a movement in Orthodoxy
outside the fact that we accept Mark 16, 9-20 even as some protestants
do not, they rejecting such gifts of the Holy Spirit.  We Orthodox
reject the Protestant Westcott Hort school of exegesis that would
render these gifts "non-Markan", their benchmark of Christian
scriptural truth,  in order to diminish the divinity of Christ and/or
to prove the non existence of miracles.
>
> --
> Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
> Web:  http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
> Blog:http://methodius.blogspot.com
> E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

1st Century Apostolic Traditionalist a �crit :
> "Steve Hayes" <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> wrote in message
> news:e77nk5drb2f55umm6mjq77qvhofceer8ba@4ax.com...
>> Fr Michael Harper, a charismatic Anglican leader who joined the Orthodox
>> Church, died on the Feast of Theophany, 6 January 2010
>
> The important thing is....was he baptised by water immersion AFTER he
> came to a knowledge of Christ.
> If not, his hope of salvation has been in vain.
>

Salvation from what ?

> We must be "Born of water......and of the spirit"
> "Marvel not, ye must be born again"

Water baptism was intended for the Jews: a ritual bath was requested for 
the convert Gentiles prior to their circumcision. What John the Baptist 
signified to the Jews of his time was that, even circumcised, because of 
their hypocrisy, they too could only be justified through another ritual 
bath, ie baptism. And of course Jesus himself, although he was fully 
baptized (=immerged) in the Presence of the Father, accepted this rite 
by humility.

-- 
Jazz up your life!
Jazzez-vous la vie!

http://rvgmusic.bandcamp.com/
http://www.jamendo.com/fr/user/RVG95

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