🚀 go-pugleaf

On 26 May 2010 10:49:02 GMT, "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>you like it.
>
>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>the left side.
>
>Hope you enjoy:
>
>http://zone23.net/
>
>
>Greets, Marco.

Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few photos
I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.

Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal either.
Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At least you show a
good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly. That's much more than I
can say for any of the other dufusses (dufi) that post to these forums. At
least you won't be damaging the visual centers of anyone's brains. Unlike
the rest in these newsgroups.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 06:33:59 -0500, Jeff Jones <jj197109671@mailinator.com>
wrote:

>On 26 May 2010 10:49:02 GMT, "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>you like it.
>>
>>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>the left side.
>>
>>Hope you enjoy:
>>
>>http://zone23.net/
>>
>>
>>Greets, Marco.
>
>Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few photos
>I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.
>
>Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal either.
>Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At least you show a
>good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly. That's much more than I
>can say for any of the other dufusses (dufi) that post to these forums. At
>least you won't be damaging the visual centers of anyone's brains. Unlike
>the rest in these newsgroups.
>
>
>
>

A few that I would give a B+ to. Some almost verging on an A-

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=9

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=16

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=20

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=36

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=46

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=68

If you had either the waves or the jellyfish in better focus this could
have been a strong A-, but your eye for composition made it work. On second
look, a difficult call, it still works like it is. I like it a lot but
shouldn't. Technically a C-, artistically a strong A- to almost an A.
http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=174

A strong A- because I'm a fan of Escher.
http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=175

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=202

Good subject, but the composition was slightly off.
http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=241


The rest of these dolts could learn a lot about composition from you. Even
when a subject is lack-luster your eye for composition saves it. (most of
the time)

p.s. Your website works well. Clean and simple. Nothing too fancy to
detract from what's important. Unlike most others who can't dazzle with
brilliance so they try to baffle with web-site bullshit.

In message <4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>, Marco 
Struck <nickh.temp@web.de> writes
>Hi,
>
>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>you like it.
>
>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>the left side.
>
>Hope you enjoy:
>
>http://zone23.net/
>
>
>Greets, Marco.
>

I really liked your shots.

This one stood out for me but I think it may have been over-sharpened ;)

http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60

-- 
Paul Giverin

My Photos:- www.pbase.com/vendee

In article <9r0qv59960o7qiab2qas3tubmmvu80ok3l@4ax.com>, Jeff Jones <jj197109671@mailinator.com> wrote:
>On 26 May 2010 10:49:02 GMT, "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>you like it.
>>
>>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>the left side.
>>
>>Hope you enjoy:
>>
>>http://zone23.net/
>>
>>
>>Greets, Marco.
>
>Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few photos
>I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.
>
>Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal either.
>Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At least you show a
>good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly. That's much more than I
>can say for any of the other dufusses (dufi) that post to these forums. At
>least you won't be damaging the visual centers of anyone's brains. Unlike
>the rest in these newsgroups.
>
>
>
>
>
Does your wife also think that you are an arrogant prick?

"Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:8HSbuICi2T$LFwZe@giverin.adsl24.co.uk...
> In message <4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>, Marco 
> Struck <nickh.temp@web.de> writes
>>Hi,
>>
>>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>you like it.
>>
>>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>the left side.
>>
>>Hope you enjoy:
>>
>>http://zone23.net/
>>
>>
>>Greets, Marco.
>>
>
> I really liked your shots.
>
> This one stood out for me but I think it may have been over-sharpened ;)
>
> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>


I get your point.

-- 
Peter 

Peter wrote:
> "Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:8HSbuICi2T$LFwZe@giverin.adsl24.co.uk...
>> In message <4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>,
>> Marco Struck <nickh.temp@web.de> writes
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>> just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>> viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>> you like it.
>>>
>>> The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>> keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>> clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>> Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>> prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>> chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>> the left side.
>>>
>>> Hope you enjoy:
>>>
>>> http://zone23.net/
>>
>> I really liked your shots.
>>
>> This one stood out for me but I think it may have been over-sharpened ;)
>>
>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>
> I get your point.

No need to be so blunt.

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

On 27/05/2010 10:47 AM,  Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
> Peter wrote:
>> "Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:8HSbuICi2T$LFwZe@giverin.adsl24.co.uk...
>>> In message <4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>,
>>> Marco Struck <nickh.temp@web.de> writes
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>>> just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>>> viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>>> you like it.
>>>>
>>>> The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>>> keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>>> clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>>> Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>>> prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>>> chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>>> the left side.
>>>>
>>>> Hope you enjoy:
>>>>
>>>> http://zone23.net/
>>>
>>> I really liked your shots.
>>>
>>> This one stood out for me but I think it may have been over-sharpened ;)
>>>
>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>
>> I get your point.
>
> No need to be so blunt.
>
This is all a bit pointless.

Rob wrote:
> On 27/05/2010 10:47 AM,  Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
>> Peter wrote:
>>> "Paul Giverin" <paul@giverin.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:8HSbuICi2T$LFwZe@giverin.adsl24.co.uk...
>>>> In message <4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net>,
>>>> Marco Struck <nickh.temp@web.de> writes
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are
>>>>> online,
>>>>> just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>>>> viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me
>>>>> know if
>>>>> you like it.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>>>> keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>>>> clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to
>>>>> you.
>>>>> Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>>>> prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>>>> chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and
>>>>> tags on
>>>>> the left side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you enjoy:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://zone23.net/
>>>>
>>>> I really liked your shots.
>>>>
>>>> This one stood out for me but I think it may have been
>>>> over-sharpened ;)
>>>>
>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>
>>> I get your point.
>>
>> No need to be so blunt.
>>
> This is all a bit pointless.

Now you're just rubbing it in.

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

> >>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60


Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)

MrT.

On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:

>>>>> 
>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
> 
> 
> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)

A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would 
be for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've 
tried the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely large 
pencil.

-- 
Pete

Jeff Jones <jj197109671@mailinator.com> was inspired to say
>>On 26 May 2010 10:49:02 GMT, "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
>>>just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
>>>viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
>>>you like it.
>>>
>>>The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
>>>keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
>>>clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
>>>Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
>>>prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
>>>chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
>>>the left side.
>>>
>>>Hope you enjoy:
>>>
>>>http://zone23.net/
>>
>>Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few photos
>>I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.
>>
>>Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal either.
>>Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At least you show a
>>good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly. That's much more than I
>>can say for any of the other dufusses (dufi) that post to these forums. At
>>least you won't be damaging the visual centers of anyone's brains. Unlike
>>the rest in these newsgroups.
>>
>
>A few that I would give a B+ to. Some almost verging on an A-
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=9
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=16
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=20
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=36
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=46
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=68
>
>If you had either the waves or the jellyfish in better focus this could
>have been a strong A-, but your eye for composition made it work. On second
>look, a difficult call, it still works like it is. I like it a lot but
>shouldn't. Technically a C-, artistically a strong A- to almost an A.
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=174
>
>A strong A- because I'm a fan of Escher.
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=175
>
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=202
>
>Good subject, but the composition was slightly off.
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=241
>
>The rest of these dolts could learn a lot about composition from you. Even
>when a subject is lack-luster your eye for composition saves it. (most of
>the time)
>
>p.s. Your website works well. Clean and simple. Nothing too fancy to
>detract from what's important. Unlike most others who can't dazzle with
>brilliance so they try to baffle with web-site bullshit.


Without trying to give marks (or make ad hominem remarks), I would agree 
in general with the above comments. There's an attempt to see things in 
a fresh way, and mostly, as you say, Jeff, with an eye to composition.

A few could do with revison, eg. http://zone23.net/?showimage=89
Here the alignment would be better with the verticals rather than the 
horizontals. But the image isn't strong enough to bother.

But overall a pleasant set, combining simple record shots, racoons, owls 
etc. with some good pictorial.

Mike
-- 
Michael J Davis

www.flickr.com/photos/watchman

<><
"I never have taken a picture I've intended.
They're always better or worse."
Diane Arbus
<><

" Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " >>>> I get your point.
>>>
>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>
>> This is all a bit pointless.
>
> Now you're just rubbing it in.

Who took the lead out of your pencil? 

David wrote:
> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF ">>>>  I get your point.
>>>>
>>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>>
>>> This is all a bit pointless.
>>
>> Now you're just rubbing it in.
>
> Who took the lead out of your pencil?

What makes you think I shooting blanks?

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

On Wed, 26 May 2010 15:53:04 GMT
Winniethepooh@100acrewoods.org (GMAN) wrote:

> Does your wife also think that you are an arrogant prick?

You think any woman would have him?

On 27/05/2010 7:32 PM,  Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
> David wrote:
>> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF ">>>> I get your point.
>>>>>
>>>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>>>
>>>> This is all a bit pointless.
>>>
>>> Now you're just rubbing it in.
>>
>> Who took the lead out of your pencil?
>
> What makes you think I shooting blanks?
>

You pointing something out.

Rob wrote:
> On 27/05/2010 7:32 PM,  Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
>> David wrote:
>>> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF ">>>> I get your point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is all a bit pointless.
>>>>
>>>> Now you're just rubbing it in.
>>>
>>> Who took the lead out of your pencil?
>>
>> What makes you think I'm shooting blanks?
>
> You pointing something out.

Well, not to put too fine a point on it but I'm no pencil neck.

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

? "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> ?????? ??? ?????? 
news:4bfcfc9e$0$6985$9b4e6d93@newsspool4.arcor-online.net...
> Hi,
>
> I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
> just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
> viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
> you like it.
>
> The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
> keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
> clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
> Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
> prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
> chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
> the left side.
>
> Hope you enjoy:
>
> http://zone23.net/
>
Ja, richtig, sehr gut:-)Die Fotos sind eingezeichnet!



-- 
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr

" Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF " 
<""does.tholen.have.many.kook.outs\"@kangarooistan.com.au ."> wrote in 
message news:4bfe8a99$0$27862$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Rob wrote:
>> On 27/05/2010 7:32 PM,  Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
>>> David wrote:
>>>> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF ">>>> I get your point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all a bit pointless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now you're just rubbing it in.
>>>>
>>>> Who took the lead out of your pencil?
>>>
>>> What makes you think I'm shooting blanks?
>>
>> You pointing something out.
>
> Well, not to put too fine a point on it but I'm no pencil neck.
>


We ought to erase this thread

-- 
Peter 

"Pete" <available.on.request@aserver.invalid> wrote in message 
news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>
>>
>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>
> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would be 
> for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've tried 
> the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely large pencil.
>


Does infinity exist?

-- 
Peter 

On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
> "Pete" <available.on.request@aserver.invalid> wrote in message
> news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
>> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>
>>>
>>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>>
>> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would
>> be for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've
>> tried the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely
>> large pencil.
>>
>
>
> Does infinity exist?

Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.

Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no way 
of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the 
universe will expand infinitely.  Within a few billion years the 
farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than 
the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the 
universe might get - unless it collapses again.

Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes 
each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others not.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

Peter wrote:
> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF "
> <"does.tholen.have.many.kook.outs@kangarooistan.com.au ."> wrote in
> message news:4bfe8a99$0$27862$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> Rob wrote:
>>> On 27/05/2010 7:32 PM, Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF > wrote:
>>>> David wrote:
>>>>> " Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF ">>>> I get your point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No need to be so blunt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is all a bit pointless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now you're just rubbing it in.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who took the lead out of your pencil?
>>>>
>>>> What makes you think I'm shooting blanks?
>>>
>>> You pointing something out.
>>
>> Well, not to put too fine a point on it but I'm no pencil neck.
>
> We ought to erase this thread

What's the matter? Are you getting rubbed the wrong way?

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

On 2010-05-28 03:04:32 +0100, Alan Browne said:

> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>> "Pete" <available.on.request@aserver.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
>>> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>>> 
>>> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would
>>> be for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've
>>> tried the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely
>>> large pencil.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Does infinity exist?
> 
> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
> 
> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no way 
> of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the 
> universe will expand infinitely.  Within a few billion years the 
> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than 
> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the 
> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
> 
> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes 
> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others 
> not.

I wonder what their pencils look like.

-- 
Pete

Pete wrote:
> On 2010-05-28 03:04:32 +0100, Alan Browne said:
>
>> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>>> "Pete" <available.on.request@aserver.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
>>>> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>>>
>>>>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>>>>
>>>> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would
>>>> be for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've
>>>> tried the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely
>>>> large pencil.
>>>
>>> Does infinity exist?
>>
>> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>>
>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no
>> way of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>> universe will expand infinitely. Within a few billion years the
>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>>
>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others
>> not.
>
> I wonder what their pencils look like.

There's an infinite variety of them.

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message 
news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:

>>
>> Does infinity exist?
>
> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>
> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no way of 
> knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the universe 
> will expand infinitely.  Within a few billion years the farthest reaches 
> of the universe will be receding from us faster than the speed of light 
> (relative to us) so we will never know how big the universe might get - 
> unless it collapses again.
>
> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes 
> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others not.
>

That statement is a classic oxymoron.
How can infinity exist outside itself.


-- 
Peter 

On Thu, 27 May 2010 19:05:34 -0400, "Peter"
<peternew@nospamoptonline.net> wrote:

>"Pete" <available.on.request@aserver.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
>> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>
>>>
>>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>>
>> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would be 
>> for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've tried 
>> the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely large pencil.
>>
>
>
>Does infinity exist?

Only if you can find a big enough pencil to draw it

On 29/05/2010 1:56 AM, Albert Ross wrote:
> On Thu, 27 May 2010 19:05:34 -0400, "Peter"
> <peternew@nospamoptonline.net>  wrote:
>
>> "Pete"<available.on.request@aserver.invalid>  wrote in message
>> news:2010052709151926533-availableonrequest@aserverinvalid...
>>> On 2010-05-27 04:51:36 +0100, Mr.T said:
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>>>
>>> A sharp observation: I'd always wondered what the depth of field would be
>>> for a 0mm lens with an aperture of f/0, now I know :-) I would've tried
>>> the test myself, but I've been unable to find an infinitely large pencil.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Does infinity exist?
>
> Only if you can find a big enough pencil to draw it

I'll pencil that in.

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no way
> of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
> universe will expand infinitely.  Within a few billion years the
> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
> universe might get - unless it collapses again.

If this were true, we have no way of knowing it hasn't already happened, no
need to wait a few billion years to engage in such speculation.


> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes


Or perhaps not. I'll happily speculate on one thing though, I bet we don't
find out in our lifetimes!

MrT.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 06:33:59 -0500, Jeff Jones <jj197109671@mailinator.com>
wrote:
: On 26 May 2010 10:49:02 GMT, "Marco Struck" <nickh.temp@web.de> wrote:
: 
: >Hi,
: >
: >I nearly finished my new photosite, at least all the photos are online,
: >just a few details left to be done. Ofcourse I would like to have some
: >viewers and comments, so feel invited to have a look and let me know if
: >you like it.
: >
: >The Site is german, but I intentionally left the navigation and
: >keywords in english, allowing international visitors to navigate. By
: >clicking on the following link a random image will be presented to you.
: >Select 1 of the 3 random thumbnails below, or the 2 possible next- and
: >prev-links, or just click on the browse-link to get to the reversed
: >chronological overview, which can be filtered by categories and tags on
: >the left side.
: >
: >Hope you enjoy:
: >
: >http://zone23.net/
: >
: >
: >Greets, Marco.
: 
: Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few photos
: I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.
: 
: Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal either.
: Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At least you show a
: good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly. That's much more than I
: can say for any of the other dufusses (dufi) that post to these forums.

Actually it's "dufis" (with a long "i" - dative plural).

: At least you won't be damaging the visual centers of anyone's brains.
: Unlike the rest in these newsgroups.

I don't know how we can be expected to improve, unless you condescend to show
us more of your own excellent work. I looked at some of the recent Shoot-Ins,
and it appears that through some oversight you haven't been submitting
anything lately. Why is that, I wonder.

Bob

Jeff Jones wrote:
>On Wed, 26 May 2010 06:33:59 -0500, Jeff Jones
><jj197109671@mailinator.com> wrote:

Hi,

first I want to apologize for replying so lately. 


>>>Hope you enjoy:
>>>
>>>http://zone23.net/
>>>
>>>
>>>Greets, Marco.
>>
>>Lots of standard stock-photography. Overall grade about a C+, a few
>>photos I'd give a B- to, maybe even a B+ for one or two.
>>
>>Not bad. But in my browsing I didn't spot anything phenomenal
>>either.  Though I didn't view them all, just a good sampling. At
>>least you show a good grasp and breadth of using a camera properly.
>>That's much more than I can say for any of the other dufusses
>>(dufi) that post to these forums. At least you won't be damaging
>>the visual centers of anyone's brains. Unlike the rest in these
>>newsgroups.

An overall fair and true statement, at least the part you're talking
about my pictures. Thank you.



>If you had either the waves or the jellyfish in better focus this
>could have been a strong A-, but your eye for composition made it
>work. On second look, a difficult call, it still works like it is. I
>like it a lot but shouldn't. Technically a C-, artistically a strong
>A- to almost an A.  http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=174

The funny thing about this picture is, that it made it's way into the
gallery by fortuity. The Original is nearly black with a scheme of a
dark grey jellyfish, extremely noisy in the dark tones. So I was just
fooling around with the picture, raising brightness and contrast, when
I discovered the colors in the picture, finally applying a noisefilter.
There it is, a nice example why to use RAW-Format... ;-)


>A strong A- because I'm a fan of Escher.
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=175

Same process as the jellyfish, but much better RAW-Material. I had to
photograph into dark black-blue water, but didn't want to let those
fishes escape without being photographed...


>Good subject, but the composition was slightly off.
>http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=241

Absolutely. I am thinking about a new version with different cut-out
and better lens- and exposure-correction.


>The rest of these dolts could learn a lot about composition from you.
>Even when a subject is lack-luster your eye for composition saves it.
>(most of the time)

Very perceptive and true, non-ironic. I need to find some more
compelling subjects, therefore I am thinking about some projects to
start with... but it will take a few years to present any results,
because I need more time and equipment.

Greets, Marco.


--
http://zone23.net

Michael J Davis schrieb:


>But overall a pleasant set, combining simple record shots, racoons,
>owls etc. with some good pictorial.

Thank you very much, nice to hear that. :-)

Greets, Marco.

--
http:/zone23.net

Paul Giverin:

>I really liked your shots.

Thank you. :-)

Marco.

--
http://zone23.net

Mr.T:

>
>> >>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>
>
>Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)

Somehow, yes. It's a Auto-Revuenon 50mm, a relabeled Pentacon from the
GDR, 25 years old or even much older, with a M42 Screwmount. Screwed on
a M42 macro-tube, screwed on an adapter to the EOS-mount. Fully manual
and mechanic... so, there will be no exif-data available to the camera.

Just in case there's any interest... ;-)

Marco.

--
http://zone23.net

Tzortzakakis Dimitris schrieb:

>>Hope you enjoy:
>>
>>http://zone23.net/
>>
>Ja, richtig, sehr gut:-)Die Fotos sind eingezeichnet!

Thank you very much, but you should say 'ausgezeichnet', since
'eingezeichnet' means 'drawn-in'... :-)

Your name sounds greek, right? Ever been in Germany?


Marco

--
http://zone23.net

Marco Struck wrote:
> Mr.T:
>
>>>>>> http://zone23.net/index.php?showimage=60
>>
>> Taken with a focal length of 0mm? Very unusual lens :-)
>
> Somehow, yes. It's a Auto-Revuenon 50mm, a relabeled Pentacon from the
> GDR, 25 years old or even much older, with a M42 Screwmount. Screwed on
> a M42 macro-tube, screwed on an adapter to the EOS-mount. Fully manual
> and mechanic... so, there will be no exif-data available to the camera.
>
> Just in case there's any interest... ;-)
>
> Marco.

So its a stuck on macro?

-- 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
  - KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
  - Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
  - Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
  - Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke 
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
  - Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
  - Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor 
general!"
  - Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his 
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
  - FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
  - KRudd the KRude Rat at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
  - Garrett the carrott

On 10-05-28 8:37 , Peter wrote:
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Does infinity exist?
>>
>> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>>
>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no
>> way of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>> universe will expand infinitely. Within a few billion years the
>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>>
>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others
>> not.
>>
>
> That statement is a classic oxymoron.
> How can infinity exist outside itself.

No oxymoron.

First off, even if the universe is finite, the notion of infinity 
remains as it is mathematical, abstract (as I pointed out above).

Our universe is not known to be infinite.  Per cosmologists it is 
bounded.  So other universes may exist "outside" "in parallel" etc. and 
each universe may or may not be infinite (many dimensions in space allow 
for many configurations of "infinity").  See SciAm about 3 or 4 months 
ago for a variety of models.  None proven of course.

Cosmologists do not think in 3 dimensional space when considering these 
things.

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

On 10-05-29 2:14 , Mr.T wrote:
> "Alan Browne"<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>  wrote in message
> news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no way
>> of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>> universe will expand infinitely.  Within a few billion years the
>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>
> If this were true, we have no way of knowing it hasn't already happened, no
> need to wait a few billion years to engage in such speculation.
>
>
>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>
>
> Or perhaps not. I'll happily speculate on one thing though, I bet we don't
> find out in our lifetimes!

That's the bittersweet life of cosmologists.  Hawking is probably 
deserving of the Nobel Physics prize but his "blackhole radiation" 
theory has not been proven - _maybe_ will be proven with the LHC before 
he dies (no post-humous awards).

-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message 
news:26adnZjURp16E5jRnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 10-05-28 8:37 , Peter wrote:
>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>> news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Does infinity exist?
>>>
>>> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>>>
>>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no
>>> way of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>>> universe will expand infinitely. Within a few billion years the
>>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>>>
>>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>>> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others
>>> not.
>>>
>>
>> That statement is a classic oxymoron.
>> How can infinity exist outside itself.
>
> No oxymoron.
>
> First off, even if the universe is finite, the notion of infinity remains 
> as it is mathematical, abstract (as I pointed out above).
>
> Our universe is not known to be infinite.  Per cosmologists it is bounded. 
> So other universes may exist "outside" "in parallel" etc. and each 
> universe may or may not be infinite (many dimensions in space allow for 
> many configurations of "infinity").  See SciAm about 3 or 4 months ago for 
> a variety of models.  None proven of course.
>
> Cosmologists do not think in 3 dimensional space when considering these 
> things.


While I agree that infinity is a mathematical expression, how can infinity 
exist outside itself?


-- 
Peter 

On 10-06-01 21:15 , Peter wrote:
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:26adnZjURp16E5jRnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> On 10-05-28 8:37 , Peter wrote:
>>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>>> news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does infinity exist?
>>>>
>>>> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>>>>
>>>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no
>>>> way of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>>>> universe will expand infinitely. Within a few billion years the
>>>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>>>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>>>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>>>>
>>>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>>>> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That statement is a classic oxymoron.
>>> How can infinity exist outside itself.
>>
>> No oxymoron.
>>
>> First off, even if the universe is finite, the notion of infinity
>> remains as it is mathematical, abstract (as I pointed out above).
>>
>> Our universe is not known to be infinite. Per cosmologists it is
>> bounded. So other universes may exist "outside" "in parallel" etc. and
>> each universe may or may not be infinite (many dimensions in space
>> allow for many configurations of "infinity"). See SciAm about 3 or 4
>> months ago for a variety of models. None proven of course.
>>
>> Cosmologists do not think in 3 dimensional space when considering
>> these things.
>
>
> While I agree that infinity is a mathematical expression, how can
> infinity exist outside itself?

I wasn't speaking of the mathematical sense but of cosmological 
concepts.  Again: see the SciAm issue of several months back.

Appropriately the answer is on page 42.


-- 
gmail originated posts are filtered due to spam.

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message 
news:Ib-dndVzHO4AIZvRnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 10-06-01 21:15 , Peter wrote:
>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>> news:26adnZjURp16E5jRnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> On 10-05-28 8:37 , Peter wrote:
>>>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>>>> news:2KKdnWdjKoAtuWLWnZ2dnUVZ_vidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> On 10-05-27 19:05 , Peter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does infinity exist?
>>>>>
>>>>> Infinity is a state or concept so its existence is up to you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Distance in this universe is thought to be bounded, but there is no
>>>>> way of knowing what is outside the universe, if anything, nor if the
>>>>> universe will expand infinitely. Within a few billion years the
>>>>> farthest reaches of the universe will be receding from us faster than
>>>>> the speed of light (relative to us) so we will never know how big the
>>>>> universe might get - unless it collapses again.
>>>>>
>>>>> Outside our universe there are perhaps an infinite number of universes
>>>>> each without its own infinity or some expanding infinitely and others
>>>>> not.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That statement is a classic oxymoron.
>>>> How can infinity exist outside itself.
>>>
>>> No oxymoron.
>>>
>>> First off, even if the universe is finite, the notion of infinity
>>> remains as it is mathematical, abstract (as I pointed out above).
>>>
>>> Our universe is not known to be infinite. Per cosmologists it is
>>> bounded. So other universes may exist "outside" "in parallel" etc. and
>>> each universe may or may not be infinite (many dimensions in space
>>> allow for many configurations of "infinity"). See SciAm about 3 or 4
>>> months ago for a variety of models. None proven of course.
>>>
>>> Cosmologists do not think in 3 dimensional space when considering
>>> these things.
>>
>>
>> While I agree that infinity is a mathematical expression, how can
>> infinity exist outside itself?
>
> I wasn't speaking of the mathematical sense but of cosmological concepts. 
> Again: see the SciAm issue of several months back.
>
> Appropriately the answer is on page 42.
>


I read it. Logic 101 says it is an oxymoron.

Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

-- 
Peter