🚀 go-pugleaf

"Trevor Cleaver" <cleaver.trevor@news.u> wrote in message 
news:A4CLj.452$j64.1668@weber.videotron.net...
>
> "weatherwax" <weatherwax@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message 
> news:BHBLj.169138$cQ1.12142@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>> "Andrew" <thecroft@macunlimited.net> wrote in message 
>> news:2008041100041784492-thecroft@macunlimitednet...
>>> On 2008-04-10 20:38:11 +0100, "weatherwax" <weatherwax@worldnet.att.net> 
>>> said:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Andrew" <thecroft@macunlimited.net> wrote
>>>>> "weatherwax" <weatherwax@worldnet.att.net> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tim Bruening" <tsbrueni@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:47FB0E6F.B55E3D2D@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
>>>>>>> 2 Samuel 11:4-5: King David has sex with Bathsheba, in spite of 
>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>> that Bathsheba is the wife of Uriah the Hittite (who is the armor 
>>>>>>> bearer
>>>>>>> of Israelite commander Joab).  Uriah was participating in the siege 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the Ammonite city of Rabbah.  Bathsheba becomes pregnant as a result
>>>>>>> of the sex with King David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11:6-13: David has Joab send Uriah to him, and urges Uriah to go 
>>>>>>> home to
>>>>>>> visit his wife (so that everyone will think that the baby is 
>>>>>>> Uriah's).
>>>>>>> Uriah refuses to sleep with his wife or eat rich food as long as
>>>>>>> his comrades are in the open field fighting the Ammonites.  Uriah
>>>>>>> instead
>>>>>>> sleeps at the entrance to the palace with the other officers.  David
>>>>>>> even gets Uriah drunk (why isn't alcohol on his prohibited list?),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alcohol is not on the prohibited list because it was considered an
>>>>>> aphrodisiac.   That is why David gave it to Uriah.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Genesis 9:1 God told Noah and his sons to "be fruitful and 
>>>>>> multiply."
>>>>>> Noah was an old man and found the command hard to obey, therefore
>>>>>> he planted a vineyard (9:20), he then drank the wine and went into 
>>>>>> his
>>>>>> temt (presumably to fulfill God's command at 9:1).  Ham saw Noah's
>>>>>> nakedness, and thus robbed.  Noah of his potency.  In response,  Noah
>>>>>> cursed Ham's potency (Canaan.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another example of the aphrodisiac quality of alcohol is the story of
>>>>>> Lot
>>>>>> and his daughters in Genesis 19:30-38,   In order to get their father 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> sleep with them and produce offspring, the two daughters got Lot 
>>>>>> drunk.
>>>>>> Lot never knew what happened and both sistems produced offspring.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but Uriah still refuses to go home!  Why doesn't King David assign 
>>>>>>> Uriah
>>>>>>> to a private location in or near the palace, and send Bathsheba a 
>>>>>>> letter
>>>>>>> telling her where to find him?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11:14-17: David tells Joab to arrange Uriah's death, by leaving him
>>>>>>> unprotected on the battlefield.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11:26-27: Bathsheba mourns Uriah, then marries David.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 12:1-12: The prophet Nathan rebukes David over the Bathsheba affair
>>>>>>> and announces that the affair will become known to everyone.  I'm 
>>>>>>> surprised that Bathsheba didn't seem upset with David for killing 
>>>>>>> her husband!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have an even bigger question:
>>>>>> In 2 Sam 12:13 Nathan tells David, that the LORD has forgiven David 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> his sins and that he will not die.
>>>>>> 12:14 Nathan says that David's newborn son will die instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The child suffered for a week before he passed away.  Is this just
>>>>>> stupidity
>>>>>> on the author's part, or does God really hate children?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Wax
>>>>>
>>>>> While it's entirely reasonable to accept that David's child by 
>>>>> Bathsheba
>>>>> may well have died, the record we have in Samuel is a later writer's
>>>>> interpretation of those events, and that writer sees the hand of God 
>>>>> at
>>>>> work in history.
>>>>> The point being made here is that sin has consequences and they don't 
>>>>> just
>>>>> accrue to the sinner. If, for example, as a family man I were to 
>>>>> engage in
>>>>> an affair, then my wife and son may well suffer as a consequence. The
>>>>> trauma for may son may even have consequences for his family in later
>>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with your reasoning is that there is no direct connection
>>>> between the death of the child, and David's sin.  If I got drunk, then
>>>> carelessly backed out of my garage and killed my son in doing so, then 
>>>> there
>>>> is a direct connection between my drinking and the boy's death.  But 
>>>> where
>>>> is the connection between David's sin and his son's death?
>>>>
>>>>         2 Samuel 12:13-14
>>>>         Then David exclaimed to Nathan, "I have sinned against the
>>>>         LORD!"  Nathan replied to David, "Yes, and the LORD has
>>>>         forgiven your sin.  You are not going to die.  Nonetheless,
>>>>         because you have treated the LORD with such contempt in
>>>>         this matter, the son who has been born to you will certainly 
>>>> die."
>>>>
>>>> The implication of this story is that the child died only because God 
>>>> chose
>>>> to kill him rather than David.
>>>
>>> Remember that in the Hebrew mind a child is a gift from God. A reward. 
>>> Does God reward adultery and murder?
>>
>> Considering that the child was born to David after the adultery and 
>> murder, I will have to say yes.  I am sure that the Hebrews were used to 
>> seeing bad people with children.  As it says in Job:
>>
> The Canaanite language is what we know as Hebrew. You are either speaking 
> of Canaanites or Jews. The name "Hebrews" here, is being used out of 
> context.

I question your definition.  The world "Hebrew" can refer to either

1: A member or descendant of a Semitic people claiming descent from Abraham, 
Isaac, and Jacob; an Israelite; a Jew.

2: The Semitic language of the ancient Hebrews.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Hebrews

I do not like using the word "Canaanite" because that is often loosely used 
to include a number of  unrelated ethnic groups which also lived in the 
region called Canaan.

>>        Job 21:7-8
>>        Why do the wicked go on long
>>        grow old, even increase in power?
>>        Their children are firmly established
>>        in their presence.
>>        their offspring before their ewes.
>>
>> --Wax
>>
>>
>>
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