🚀 go-pugleaf

Brian Wells wrote:
> 
> Shane R. Monroe of Better Concepts wrote:
> 
> > Since I didn't have the opportunity to respond directly to Dave's mail,
> > I will post the official reply here in response to this horrible
> > message.
> 
>         Horrible message? From your agreement (or at least nondenial of
> the facts he posted), because he spoke the truth of his problems with
> your company and posted them his message is horrible?
> 
> > While I personally didn't have anything to do with Dave's order, I have
> > been elected to respond.
> 
>         Why not someone who was involved?
> 
> > This particular matter is particularly upsetting to all of us, me
> > especially.  This is the kind of unique NIGHTMARE that happens about
> > once a year to ALL major mail order companies - and fortunately it all
> > usually gets resolved without some big ugly post to the newsgroups.
> > This time, it seems, we couldn't fix it in time.
> 
>         I have to agree with Dave on this one. After all, I WOULD BE
> UPSET TOO if I ordered something and it's taken over 40 days and more
> than 2 tries to finally get it right.
> 
> > text and explain everything in detail.  Suffice to say that this is one
> > of those isolated incidents that can have a major impact on the Amiga
> > market and I will tell you why.
> 
>         Ok, so he's warning us of your services and you're telling us how
> it's going to affect the market? With services like that who would want
> to see dealers with those practices in the market to begin with??
>         If there's oe thing I'm noticing here, you're not denying any of
> the facts he stated. SInce that's the case, who would want to deal with a
> company who doesn't return phone calls and messages?
> 
> > (mostly gone) are not able to service.  We buy, sell, and trade and try
> > and help our customers get what they want and NEED.  We don't sell
> > customers products they can't use or need.
> 
>         Oh really? You don't sell what they can't use or need? According to his
> article, he's had a computer now he ordered from you guys and not only
> is it still not what he ordered but he can't use it! Hello?! What am I
> missing here?!
> 
> > everyone leaving the Amiga, it is a shame when such messages get posted
> > about one of the last companies in the U.S. that care about the Amiga.
> 
>         If you provided good services these messages wouldn't be posted.
> I have to agree with Dave here -- I mean, if you guys really did care,
> why is it, even after he stated he included a personal note in the
> package as well as an email to Craig (?)  telling you guys what was
> missing and what needed to be done, that you still cannot get things
> right? I noticed that wasn't refuked, nor any of his other facts.
> Obviously then he's not making this up.
> 
>         Please post here as I'm really interested in reading a reply to that.
> Here you are saying how the Amiga community is hurting and he's going to
> make it worse by posting how bad of services he's received? Where's your
> rebuttal to his allegations? Apparently, all of his dealings with you
> have not been exaggerated or overstated.
> 
>         Good luck with your fight Dave. I tend to agree with you here.
> 
> Brian Wells
> bwells@core-dump.com




Obviously, Brian, you obviously don't realize that we are one of the 
last standing complete Amiga Source for (almost) anything Amiga. I'm not 
saying this should fix anything between us & David but mistakes 
sometimes happen and in this case several. Of course the story is not 
complete from david and you are only hearing his side, but we are still 
to blame and are not refting that. If someone like yourself can't 
appreciate us being 100% amiga and supporting it to death by writing 
software for it, providing technical support for anything Amiga, 
carrying almost anything for it and making a mistake then don't think of 
us, don't look at our ads, don't enjoy our software,  because we don't 
need people like you, in fact, people like you drive people like us into 
the PC market and then all Amiga users will suffer because you wont be 
able to buy SHIT in this country for your Amiga. If this ever happens, 
we will remember to thank you. 
BCI Rules :>

Craig (craigr@icc.com) wrote:


: Obviously, Brian, you obviously don't realize that we are one of the 
: last standing complete Amiga Source for (almost) anything Amiga. I'm not 
: saying this should fix anything between us & David but mistakes 
: sometimes happen and in this case several. Of course the story is not 
: complete from david and you are only hearing his side, but we are still 
: to blame and are not refting that. If someone like yourself can't 
: appreciate us being 100% amiga and supporting it to death by writing 
: software for it, providing technical support for anything Amiga, 
: carrying almost anything for it and making a mistake then don't think of 
: us, don't look at our ads, don't enjoy our software,  because we don't 
: need people like you, in fact, people like you drive people like us into 
: the PC market and then all Amiga users will suffer because you wont be 
: able to buy SHIT in this country for your Amiga. If this ever happens, 
: we will remember to thank you. 
: BCI Rules :>

The point is that the damage has been done, because someone screwed up.
Wasn't careful. Wasn't paying attention. Or didn't care. Now you're
here doing damage control. Wouldn't you rather be sending thank
you notices to people who post flattering articles about your service
than doing damage control because someone got mad enought to post
to a newsgroup that millions of people can read? (And that tens
of thousands probably _do_ read). 

The problem is that people have short memories. All your good deeds
can be wiped clean from a person's mind when they read a horror
story as the original post relayed.

Now who the hell am I to butt in here... well besides being 
an Amiga user from day one, I previously spent 15 years in the
freight forwarding industry, shipping all kinds of shit by
sea and by air all over the world from and to companies who had
1 to hundreds of thousands of employees. I took great care in
the way I did my job. Because my employers hired uneducated
morons to work in the warehouses, I found myself sitting on a
forklift plenty of times loading an ocean container because
the guy hired to do the job was too stupid to know not to put
the heavy stuff on top of the light stuff. I could write a
book about this segment of my life.

But the point I'm trying to make is that the customer is king.
And the customer has friends. And he's one of your best sources
of referrals to other customers. If I'm satisfied with a company
in the way they did business with me, people are gonna hear
about it. And that company's gonna make some money from it and
everyone's gonna be happy. 

I take this attitude with my Amiga Zone customers on Portal.
I've spent countless hours on the phone with clueless newbies
who didn't know which side of the mouse is up, helping them
install comms software, getting connected, downloading files,
using the net. I could shrug them off but that's not gonna
get good word of mouth. One cannot just put one's company
on auto-pilot and expect every transaction is gonna be smooth.

And it's important for someone in a position of authority to
not only take blame if something goes wrong, but to fix it
and make it right. Even if it involves shipping out another
product gratis, just to say "Sorry for what you went through.
Please accept this token as our apology. We want to earn
and keep your trust."

It's not good to see Amiga-supporting companies go away, of
course not.  It's also not good to read horror stories of
problems that could have easily been resolved had someone
in authority stepped in and made good quickly. 

Harv                                       |  "Do you recognize the
harv@cup.portal.com                        |  Bell of Truth when you
http://www.portal.com/~harv                |  hear it ring?"
hlaser@eworld.com <--- Newton mail only!   |  - Leon Russell

In article <hrlaserDMLLts.1xG@netcom.com> hrlaser@netcom.com (H.R. Laser) writes:
> Craig (craigr@icc.com) wrote:
>
>
> : Obviously, Brian, you obviously don't realize that we are one of the
> : last standing complete Amiga Source for (almost) anything Amiga. I'm not
> : saying this should fix anything between us & David but mistakes
> : sometimes happen and in this case several. Of course the story is not
> : complete from david and you are only hearing his side, but we are still
> : to blame and are not refting that. If someone like yourself can't
> : appreciate us being 100% amiga and supporting it to death by writing
> : software for it, providing technical support for anything Amiga,
> : carrying almost anything for it and making a mistake then don't think of
> : us, don't look at our ads, don't enjoy our software,  because we don't
> : need people like you, in fact, people like you drive people like us into
> : the PC market and then all Amiga users will suffer because you wont be
> : able to buy SHIT in this country for your Amiga. If this ever happens,
> : we will remember to thank you.
> : BCI Rules :>
>
> The point is that the damage has been done, because someone screwed up.
> Wasn't careful. Wasn't paying attention. Or didn't care. Now you're
> here doing damage control. Wouldn't you rather be sending thank
> you notices to people who post flattering articles about your service
> than doing damage control because someone got mad enought to post
> to a newsgroup that millions of people can read? (And that tens
> of thousands probably _do_ read).
>
> The problem is that people have short memories. All your good deeds
> can be wiped clean from a person's mind when they read a horror
> story as the original post relayed.
>
> Now who the hell am I to butt in here... well besides being
> an Amiga user from day one, I previously spent 15 years in the
> freight forwarding industry, shipping all kinds of shit by
> sea and by air all over the world from and to companies who had
> 1 to hundreds of thousands of employees. I took great care in
> the way I did my job. Because my employers hired uneducated
> morons to work in the warehouses, I found myself sitting on a
> forklift plenty of times loading an ocean container because
> the guy hired to do the job was too stupid to know not to put
> the heavy stuff on top of the light stuff. I could write a
> book about this segment of my life.
>
> But the point I'm trying to make is that the customer is king.
> And the customer has friends. And he's one of your best sources
> of referrals to other customers. If I'm satisfied with a company
> in the way they did business with me, people are gonna hear
> about it. And that company's gonna make some money from it and
> everyone's gonna be happy.
>
> I take this attitude with my Amiga Zone customers on Portal.
> I've spent countless hours on the phone with clueless newbies
> who didn't know which side of the mouse is up, helping them
> install comms software, getting connected, downloading files,
> using the net. I could shrug them off but that's not gonna
> get good word of mouth. One cannot just put one's company
> on auto-pilot and expect every transaction is gonna be smooth.
>
> And it's important for someone in a position of authority to
> not only take blame if something goes wrong, but to fix it
> and make it right. Even if it involves shipping out another
> product gratis, just to say "Sorry for what you went through.
> Please accept this token as our apology. We want to earn
> and keep your trust."
>
> It's not good to see Amiga-supporting companies go away, of
> course not.  It's also not good to read horror stories of
> problems that could have easily been resolved had someone
> in authority stepped in and made good quickly.
>
> Harv                                       |  "Do you recognize the
> harv@cup.portal.com                        |  Bell of Truth when you
> http://www.portal.com/~harv                |  hear it ring?"
> hlaser@eworld.com <--- Newton mail only!   |  - Leon Russell
>


I totally agree with you Harv.  I normally don't slam companys unless
they really screwed up the order or are just totally rude on the phone
like software hut.  The companys that I have NEVER HAD A PROBLEM with
are Vison Soft, Safe Harbor Computers and Select Solutions.  None of
these 3 companys have ever told me something was in stock and wasn't.
They all have said it was out of stock and would be in around xxx date.
I normally deal with Saft Harbor since they are the closest to me, only
2 days for ups, but if they are out of stock on something I want and don't
want to wait I will call the other 2 companys.  I have not had a problem
with Select Solutions but I call them last since the will only ship
credit card orders to the billing address and I always have the stuff
sent to my work since I won't be home to get the stuff if it sent to my
billing address.  But you can call UPS and have them reroute the package
to your work but it takes an extra day.  If you want honest people, great
service and people who can answer most questions order from:

Safe Harbor Computers
Vision Soft
Select Solutions





--


 Cory Palmer
 cpalmer@nando.net


 /-------------------------------------------------------\
 |   Amiga 4000/040 50mhz, NEC Multisync 3D, 18 meg ram, |
 |   2 1.26 gig hd, Picasso II Graphics Card, 2x cd-rom, |
 |   Nec 7cd changer, Way _too_ many CD's, Epson 600 dpi |
 |   flatbed scanner, Epson stylus color printer, 44 meg |
 |   Syquet, Zip drive, VLab Y/C, Multiface III Ser/Par  |
 |   DKB RapidFire SCSI II, Supra 28.8, fax/modem.       |
 |   Kickstart 3.0, System 7.5, dos 6.2.                 |
 \-------------------------------------------------------/

 Only Amiga makes it possible.

 -----------------------------------------------------------
 When I die I want to go in my sleep like my Grandfather...
 ..not screaming like the rest of the passengers in his car.
 -----------------------------------------------------------

H.R. Laser wrote:
 
> The point is that the damage has been done, because someone screwed up.
> Wasn't careful. Wasn't paying attention. Or didn't care. Now you're
> here doing damage control. Wouldn't you rather be sending thank
> you notices to people who post flattering articles about your service
> than doing damage control because someone got mad enought to post
> to a newsgroup that millions of people can read? (And that tens
> of thousands probably _do_ read).

Sure, this a form of damage control, and you are right.  And I can't 
begin to tell you how many times I have called a customer back later to 
check on a tech problem he called about or issure that everything got 
there.
 
> The problem is that people have short memories. All your good deeds
> can be wiped clean from a person's mind when they read a horror
> story as the original post relayed.

As they say in the Navy: 100 'Atta-Boys' are equivalant to 1 'Oh Shit'.
 
> But the point I'm trying to make is that the customer is king.
> And the customer has friends. And he's one of your best sources
> of referrals to other customers. If I'm satisfied with a company
> in the way they did business with me, people are gonna hear
> about it. And that company's gonna make some money from it and
> everyone's gonna be happy.

But you know what?  There are some customers that is JUST DOESN'T MATTER 
what you do for them ... we could DRIVE TO THEIR HOUSE to try and fix 
the problem with a lifetime supply of chocolates and NOTHING will fix 
the damage.  Some people THRIVE on unhappiness it seems.  Believe me, I 
can produce a list of the 'gratis' goodies I have ALONE (not to mention 
the rest of the people here) sent out to help quell a problem.
 
> I take this attitude with my Amiga Zone customers on Portal.
> I've spent countless hours on the phone with clueless newbies
> who didn't know which side of the mouse is up, helping them
> install comms software, getting connected, downloading files,
> using the net. I could shrug them off but that's not gonna
> get good word of mouth. One cannot just put one's company
> on auto-pilot and expect every transaction is gonna be smooth.

That is why our programming team gets nothing done. We sit with similar 
individuals for HOURS helping them install AmiTCP or something else that 
we have NO OBLIGATION to do, yet we do it.
 
> And it's important for someone in a position of authority to
> not only take blame if something goes wrong, but to fix it
> and make it right. Even if it involves shipping out another
> product gratis, just to say "Sorry for what you went through.
> Please accept this token as our apology. We want to earn
> and keep your trust."

Most of the time, it doesn't help.  We DO do that ... OFTEN.
 
> It's not good to see Amiga-supporting companies go away, of
> course not.  It's also not good to read horror stories of
> problems that could have easily been resolved had someone
> in authority stepped in and made good quickly.

You make it all sound like it was intentional ... Although I personally 
wasn't involved with the order, I KNOW the people I work with would not 
just pick someone at random and say 'ah ha!  Here is the guy we are 
gonna screw over today'...

Thanks for the post!

-- 
|~ SINCE 1984 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ darkuni@qed.net 
~~~~|
|      DARK UNICORN PRODUCTIONS - STILL SUPPORTING THE AMIGA IN 1996    
   |
| Visit Our WWW Page & Get Our Product - 
http://www.mcd.on.ca/longbow/dup/ |
| Write to DUP: dup-dev@mcd.on.ca   BCI Homepage - 
http://www.qed.net/bci/ |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ THE AMIGA LIVES 
ON ~

Shane R. Monroe (darkuni@qed.net) wrote:

: Sure, this a form of damage control, and you are right.  And I can't 
: begin to tell you how many times I have called a customer back later to 
: check on a tech problem he called about or issure that everything got 
: there.

	Well Shane, I can give you a list of people at BCI who still have 
yet to call me back. :P


: But you know what?  There are some customers that is JUST DOESN'T MATTER 
: what you do for them ... we could DRIVE TO THEIR HOUSE to try and fix 
: the problem with a lifetime supply of chocolates and NOTHING will fix 
: the damage.  Some people THRIVE on unhappiness it seems.  Believe me, I 
: can produce a list of the 'gratis' goodies I have ALONE (not to mention 
: the rest of the people here) sent out to help quell a problem.

	All I want it the computer I ordered 2 months ago, with 
everything I ordered it with. Is that too much to ask? I said I'd stop 
posting these articles as soon as everything gets straightened out. 
	My ordered consisted of one A1200, OS3.1, and a few other things. 
I still haven't seen OS3.1, and my computer doesn't work. 
	I just want my ordered fulfilled. Is that asking too much?


: > and make it right. Even if it involves shipping out another
: > product gratis, just to say "Sorry for what you went through.
: > Please accept this token as our apology. We want to earn
: > and keep your trust."

: Most of the time, it doesn't help.  We DO do that ... OFTEN.

	Don't you think you guys owe me something besides what I ordered and 
the reimbursement check??? 


: You make it all sound like it was intentional ... Although I personally 
: wasn't involved with the order, I KNOW the people I work with would not 
: just pick someone at random and say 'ah ha!  Here is the guy we are 
: gonna screw over today'...

	I never said that myself. :)

DAve
  _I_ lozinski@csugrad.cs.vt.edu               lozinski@netcom.com _I_
 (_@_)------------------------------------------------------------(_@_)
 |   | 			The next sentence is true.                |   |
 |   |  	     The previous sentence is false.              |   |
 |___| 		  Think about the above two statements.           |___|
 (_@_)------------------------------------------------------------(_@_)
   I               http://csugrad.cs.vt.edu/~lozinski               I

On 11 Feb 1996 13:05:41 GMT, cpalmer@parsifal.nando.net (Cory Palmer)
wrote:

>> But the point I'm trying to make is that the customer is king.
>> And the customer has friends. And he's one of your best sources
>> of referrals to other customers. If I'm satisfied with a company
>> in the way they did business with me, people are gonna hear
>> about it. And that company's gonna make some money from it and
>> everyone's gonna be happy.
>>
>> I take this attitude with my Amiga Zone customers on Portal.
>> I've spent countless hours on the phone with clueless newbies
>> who didn't know which side of the mouse is up, helping them
>> install comms software, getting connected, downloading files,
>> using the net. I could shrug them off but that's not gonna
>> get good word of mouth. One cannot just put one's company
>> on auto-pilot and expect every transaction is gonna be smooth.
>>
>> And it's important for someone in a position of authority to
>> not only take blame if something goes wrong, but to fix it
>> and make it right. Even if it involves shipping out another
>> product gratis, just to say "Sorry for what you went through.
>> Please accept this token as our apology. We want to earn
>> and keep your trust."
>>
>> It's not good to see Amiga-supporting companies go away, of
>> course not.  It's also not good to read horror stories of
>> problems that could have easily been resolved had someone
>> in authority stepped in and made good quickly.
>>
>> Harv                                       |  "Do you recognize the
>
>I totally agree with you Harv.  I normally don't slam companys unless
>they really screwed up the order or are just totally rude on the phone
>like software hut.  The companys that I have NEVER HAD A PROBLEM with
>are Vison Soft, Safe Harbor Computers and Select Solutions.  None of
>these 3 companys have ever told me something was in stock and wasn't.
>They all have said it was out of stock and would be in around xxx date.
>I normally deal with Saft Harbor since they are the closest to me, only
>2 days for ups, but if they are out of stock on something I want and don't
>want to wait I will call the other 2 companys.  I have not had a problem
>with Select Solutions but I call them last since the will only ship
>credit card orders to the billing address and I always have the stuff
>sent to my work since I won't be home to get the stuff if it sent to my
>billing address.  But you can call UPS and have them reroute the package
>to your work but it takes an extra day.  If you want honest people, great
>service and people who can answer most questions order from:

Umm, I may be off a bit on this, since I haven't seen a US Amiga mag
(and the ads within) in quite some time, but isn't "Better Concepts"
the outfit formerly known as "Grapevine Group", moved down the road a
stretch and renamed to avoid creditors and pissed off customers? If
they're located in Nyack, then that's them, and boy, "Grapevine" was
one group that Amiga users were glad to see leave the scene (until
they surrepticiously snuck back in). NOTHING but complaints from users
about delayed shipments, incorrect shipments, never receivbed
shipments, and when you called them, they always had some cockamamie
excuse that never held water, IF you ever managed to get through.

Flat on my back in the middle of the Information Superhighway

Brian Wells (bwells@vt.edu) wrote:

: Shane R. Monroe of Better Concepts wrote:

: > Since I didn't have the opportunity to respond directly to Dave's mail, 
: > I will post the official reply here in response to this horrible 
: > message.

: 	Horrible message? From your agreement (or at least nondenial of 
: the facts he posted), because he spoke the truth of his problems with 
: your company and posted them his message is horrible?


: > While I personally didn't have anything to do with Dave's order, I have 
: > been elected to respond.

: 	Why not someone who was involved?


: > This particular matter is particularly upsetting to all of us, me 
: > especially.  This is the kind of unique NIGHTMARE that happens about 
: > once a year to ALL major mail order companies - and fortunately it all 
: > usually gets resolved without some big ugly post to the newsgroups.  
: > This time, it seems, we couldn't fix it in time.

: 	I have to agree with Dave on this one. After all, I WOULD BE 
: UPSET TOO if I ordered something and it's taken over 40 days and more 
: than 2 tries to finally get it right.


: > text and explain everything in detail.  Suffice to say that this is one 
: > of those isolated incidents that can have a major impact on the Amiga 
: > market and I will tell you why.

: 	Ok, so he's warning us of your services and you're telling us how 
: it's going to affect the market? With services like that who would want 
: to see dealers with those practices in the market to begin with??
: 	If there's oe thing I'm noticing here, you're not denying any of 
: the facts he stated. SInce that's the case, who would want to deal with a 
: company who doesn't return phone calls and messages?


: > (mostly gone) are not able to service.  We buy, sell, and trade and try 
: > and help our customers get what they want and NEED.  We don't sell 
: > customers products they can't use or need.  

: 	Oh really? You don't sell what they can't use or need? According to his 
: article, he's had a computer now he ordered from you guys and not only 
: is it still not what he ordered but he can't use it! Hello?! What am I 
: missing here?!


: > everyone leaving the Amiga, it is a shame when such messages get posted 
: > about one of the last companies in the U.S. that care about the Amiga.

: 	If you provided good services these messages wouldn't be posted. 
: I have to agree with Dave here -- I mean, if you guys really did care, 
: why is it, even after he stated he included a personal note in the 
: package as well as an email to Craig (?)  telling you guys what was 
: missing and what needed to be done, that you still cannot get things 
: right? I noticed that wasn't refuked, nor any of his other facts. 
: Obviously then he's not making this up. 
:  
: 	Please post here as I'm really interested in reading a reply to that.
: Here you are saying how the Amiga community is hurting and he's going to 
: make it worse by posting how bad of services he's received? Where's your 
: rebuttal to his allegations? Apparently, all of his dealings with you 
: have not been exaggerated or overstated.

: 	Good luck with your fight Dave. I tend to agree with you here.

: Brian Wells
: bwells@core-dump.com

(Clap clap clap clap clap)

--

+-+----------------------------------------------------------------+-+-+
|O| SiGnATuRE V2.0a                                                |o|0|
+-+----------------------------------------------------------------+-+-+
|                                                                      |
|           It's OKAY to HATE MICROSOFT. IT'S STILL *LEGAL!*           |
|                                                                      |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------pq
+=====================================================================bd

Bowie J. Poag (bjp@interaccess.com) 50 Mhz A2500HD/030/882,AmiTCP/IP 4.2
(Go to your local CD store and buy a CD called SUPERNOVA:Ages_3_And_Up!) 

Jeff Barr (elric@tnp.com) wrote:

: Umm, I may be off a bit on this, since I haven't seen a US Amiga mag
: (and the ads within) in quite some time, but isn't "Better Concepts"
: the outfit formerly known as "Grapevine Group", moved down the road a

No.  Paxtron is related to the old Grapevine Group, not Better Concepts.

Jason Compton                                  jcompton@xnet.com
Editor-in-Chief, Amiga Report Magazine         (708) 741-0689 FAX
You know you're on the way out...              it's just a matter of time.
AR on Aminet - docs/mags/ar???.lha             AR Mailing list - Mail me
WWW - http://www.omnipresence.com/Amiga/News/AR, www.cucug.org/ar/ar.html

The Shadow Knight (lozinski@csugrad.cs.vt.edu) wrote:
: 	All I want it the computer I ordered 2 months ago, with 
: everything I ordered it with. Is that too much to ask? I said I'd stop 
: posting these articles as soon as everything gets straightened out. 

Do us a favour and stop posting them NOW, they're getting damn annoying!

(Morden shuffles off in search of a killfile...)

--
.sig96____
soon!/ / / --- Jason Murray -------- http://yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au/~s9507594
____/ / / "Go and |"If I live through this job without going completely
\ \/ / / poke the | insane, it will be a miracle of *biblical* proportions."
 \/_/_/   plant." |'Well, there goes *my* faith in the almighty...'
<*> <*>    - Zack |-- Ivanova / Corwin, A Day in the Strife  ---- G66Z9 ----

Craig (craigr@icc.com) wrote:

: Obviously, Brian, you obviously don't realize that we are one of the 
: last standing complete Amiga Source for (almost) anything Amiga. I'm not 
: saying this should fix anything between us & David but mistakes 
: sometimes happen and in this case several. Of course the story is not 
: complete from david and you are only hearing his side, but we are still 
: to blame and are not refting that. If someone like yourself can't 
: appreciate us being 100% amiga and supporting it to death by writing 
: software for it, providing technical support for anything Amiga, 
: carrying almost anything for it and making a mistake then don't think of 
: us, don't look at our ads, don't enjoy our software,  because we don't 
: need people like you, in fact, people like you drive people like us into 
: the PC market and then all Amiga users will suffer because you wont be 
: able to buy SHIT in this country for your Amiga. If this ever happens, 
: we will remember to thank you. 
: BCI Rules :>

Ya know, threatening Amiga users by the above message is really, REALLY 
stupid. If you can't take the heat, get the f**k out of the Amiga 
business man...

Jason Compton (jcompton@flood.xnet.com) wrote:
: Jeff Barr (elric@tnp.com) wrote:

: : Umm, I may be off a bit on this, since I haven't seen a US Amiga mag
: : (and the ads within) in quite some time, but isn't "Better Concepts"
: : the outfit formerly known as "Grapevine Group", moved down the road a

: No.  Paxtron is related to the old Grapevine Group, not Better Concepts.

: Jason Compton                                  jcompton@xnet.com

Paxtron you say? I'll be definitely sure to remember *NOT* to order from 
them. Boy, I remember I ordered some stuff from them and it took about a 
f***** year! I am not kidding! It was for an enternal 1541 disk for my C64...

>: Obviously, Brian, you obviously don't realize that we are one of the 
>: last standing complete Amiga Source for (almost) anything Amiga. I'm not 
>: saying this should fix anything between us & David but mistakes 
>: sometimes happen and in this case several. Of course the story is not 
>: complete from david and you are only hearing his side, but we are still 
>: to blame and are not refting that. If someone like yourself can't 
>: appreciate us being 100% amiga and supporting it to death by writing 
>: software for it, providing technical support for anything Amiga, 
>: carrying almost anything for it and making a mistake then don't think of 
>: us, don't look at our ads, don't enjoy our software,  because we don't 
>: need people like you, in fact, people like you drive people like us into 
>: the PC market and then all Amiga users will suffer because you wont be 
>: able to buy SHIT in this country for your Amiga. If this ever happens, 
>: we will remember to thank you. 

> Ya know, threatening Amiga users by the above message is really, REALLY 
> stupid. If you can't take the heat, get the f**k out of the Amiga 
> business man...

I agree.  I haven't been following this thread too closely, but I had a
run-in with a major Amiga software publisher about a month ago with the
same attitude.  Without naming names, I got an upgrade flyer for the
product in late November, with a long list of included features and, shall
we say, "small external programs".  I waited until near the upgrade cutoff
date in late December to order, and when it arrived, I was disappointed
that none of the "small external programs" were included.  (They are
available in a more expensive version of the software.)  I contacted the
company via email, noting that I posted a list of features to usenet upon
first receiving the flyer, and listed the "external programs" (this
company has a strong usenet presence) which was never corrected by their
customer support, and that I waited nearly a month before ordering, which
seemed plenty of time to have alerted their telephone ordering service.
I suggested they should feel some obligation to  honor their advertising,
as they seemed to have plenty of opportunities to inform people of the
typo, and I offered to pay shipping and handling (up to $10) for the extra
"programs", as I agree that the Amiga market isn't currently a goldmine.
They succinctly said that if I didn't like the program I could have my
money back, and when I told them that they misunderstood my point, they
came at me with a smart-ass paragraph like the above.  They said they would
send me a clip art disk for my troubles, which never arrived, but then
I probably wouldn't have used it anyway.  Now was I wrong to expect better
service?  I don't generally stick to my guns as much as I did with this
company, but I thought I had several good points, which they completely
ignored.  If it was highly inconvenient for them to honor their advertising,
I guess I understand, but they didn't seem interested in even taking
preventative steps in the future.  My bottom line is, niche market or no
niche market, this should not be used as an excuse for poor service.

Todd
taoberly@delphi.com

> Paxtron you say? I'll be definitely sure to remember *NOT* to order from
> them. Boy, I remember I ordered some stuff from them and it took about a
> f***** year! I am not kidding! It was for an enternal 1541 disk for my C64...

Paxtron is OK, I ordered several times from them, and everything was on
time and with no problems or hassles. Maybe you had bad luck.

-- maciej gorny

In article <3128E30E.41C6@elvis.rowan.edu>, Maciej Gorny <gorny@elvis.rowan.edu> says:
>
>> Paxtron you say? I'll be definitely sure to remember *NOT* to order from
>> them. Boy, I remember I ordered some stuff from them and it took about a
>> f***** year! I am not kidding! It was for an enternal 1541 disk for my C64...
>
>Paxtron is OK, I ordered several times from them, and everything was on
>time and with no problems or hassles. Maybe you had bad luck.
>
>-- maciej gorny
 
The C64 didn't have an enteral or internal 1541 disk drive.
 

you@somehost.somedomain wrote:
: In article <3128E30E.41C6@elvis.rowan.edu>, Maciej Gorny <gorny@elvis.rowan.edu> says:
: >
: >> Paxtron you say? I'll be definitely sure to remember *NOT* to order from
: >> them. Boy, I remember I ordered some stuff from them and it took about a
: >> f***** year! I am not kidding! It was for an enternal 1541 disk for my C64...
:  
: The C64 didn't have an enteral or internal 1541 disk drive.
:  
Nah, I think he was trying to say eternal 1541 disk drive.....
--
            ==> I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous <== 

                  ** George Orwell was an optimist. **