🚀 go-pugleaf

"Samantha Whitfield" <coolcrabs@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:389378B6.1D6AD7A7@smartchat.net.au...
> Nothing ventured nothing gained!
> Be Happy :-) Sam.
>
> Hans Kamp wrote:
>
> > When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I
looked in
> > the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me...
through
> > the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
> > No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too
complicated.
> > The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are
there
> > without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
> >
> > But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.

Think of the worst thing that could happen. If you could handle that then go
for it. I think the worse is that they would laugh at you and turn away.
Don't sound that way to me honey, it sounded like they would like to get to
know you better. Try, I know it is hard for you, being friendly. You might
make a new friend or who knows. Luck to you.
--
Amylee, mom to Paul (a sweet kid), Clyde (the best hubby in the world), and
Shaker (who has gotten really big and is getting mean)

Nothing ventured nothing gained!
Be Happy :-) Sam.

Hans Kamp wrote:

> I went with a friend of mine to a pub (a "kroeg" in Dutch), and my friend
> told that he wants to play darts (that pub has a possibility to play that
> there). He was practicing a bit and I decided to drink some beer (since I
> don't have medication it isn't a problem, but I only drink beer when I am
> going out, at a party or something, but I never drink beer at home. The staf
> members of the group home only don't disallow to drink alcoholics if the
> inhabitant isn't alcoholistic, doesn't have medication that cannot be used
> together with alcohol, etc).
>
> When I saw my friend playing I saw two women looking at me. I looked several
> times back, but that is the only thing I did. After a few minutes I saw 2
> another women looking at me. I decided to look back but I did nothing. I
> started to play darts with my friend, but I am a very bad player. I have
> never really played it.
>
> After playing it I went with him to a gambling machine. I saw people
> playing. In fact my friend is (as myself) autistic, but he is less shy than
> I am. He starts to chat with gamblers. Some people start to talk with me. I
> think it is a 20 years old guy: "Hey, in this case it isn't bad to drink too
> much alcohol" and he points his finger to a video racing game. "Haha, no, it
> isn't." But I didn't say much back. I am not very talkative to strangers,
> and I don't tend to talk with female strangers.
>
> My friend says: "I also want to drink something."
> I: "That is okay."
> After a few minutes (I didn't finish my glass of Coca Cola) he says: "I am
> going to a gay pub, I have an appointment there." He is not only autistic,
> but he is also gay. I am not gay, so I haven't a sexual relationship with
> him. I am sitting at the same table as where I sat before my friend asked me
> to come with him to the gambling machine and the videogames.
> The first two women are away, but the second two women resumed looking at
> me. I start to smile because a woman was talking loud (but she wasn't
> angry). I start to smile, and she looks at me. I am reading a newspaper all
> the time. I thought "I am too shy to react; when I finish reading it, I am
> going home." Several times I look up, and I see the same 2 women looking at
> me, perhaps for minutes. What if I start to talk to them? How would they
> react? Will they insult me because I might be strange to them? I think I am
> going to leave because I am alone now... and I finished reading the
> newspaper. I stand up, and I saw the women following my moves. I walk
> outside.
>
> When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked in
> the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me... through
> the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
> No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too complicated.
> The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there
> without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
>
> But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
>
> --
>
> Hans Kamp
>
> hmkamp@home.nl
> info@hanskamp.com
> hans@hanskamp.com
>
> Website/Hejmpagho
> http://www.hanskamp.com

On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:08 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked in
>the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me... through
>the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
>No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too complicated.
>The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there
>without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
>
>But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
>
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
Dear Hans
this is something you must learn. The way of the world at present is
that women usually are more prone to be exploited or victimised by men
than the other way round. 
So when women are in a group they feel powerful, less threatened than
usual. Women in this situation will see a man like you, who is
obviously not a predator on women, and think one of two things. Either
they will be cruel and have fun at your expense or they will find you
sweet and attractive. 
You have a choice: to risk humiliation on the chance of pleasure or to
play safe and leave well alone. The third way of playing the flirting
game is probably too difficult for you who are both shy and autistic.

I think you did the right thing. next time go to the bar with a friend
who is interested in women. I think you need a guide in the game of
life.



Take Care

Mike Stanton - parent, teacher and learning all the time.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Furness and South Cumbria Branch  National Autistic Society
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Visit THE WEBSITE 
created by and for people with autism and their families.
http://members.xoom.com/MagsSchwa/index.html

> that women usually are more prone to be exploited or victimised by men
> than the other way round.
> So when women are in a group they feel powerful,

Too right I always feel I can lift a refrigerator full of beer over my head with
one hand and fight Matilda the boxing Kangeroo with the other :-)

> and think one of two things. Either
> they will be cruel and have fun at your expense or they will find you
> sweet and attractive.

I think most would find him sweet and attractive.

>
> You have a choice: to risk humiliation on the chance of pleasure

and remember humilation is short term, the pleasure you might get from the
relationship could be long term.
Be Happy :-) Sam.

Samantha Whitfield <coolcrabs@smartchat.net.au> schreef in berichtnieuws
389378B6.1D6AD7A7@smartchat.net.au...
> Nothing ventured nothing gained!
> Be Happy :-) Sam.

<story snipped>

I know... I am aware of it. But when I am confronted with that situation, I
still find it too risky.

I have talked about it with my psychologist, and I myself proposed to do
Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. He wanted to consult others and after a few
weeks he came back. "I have talked with one of the therapist, and I told him
that you have PDD/NOS. He said that it wouldn't a good idea if he applied
CBT to autistics. It is unknown how they react." Instead he proposed me to
read (or to go to a website of) a magazine, whose subjects are: ADHD,
PDD/NOS, NLD and Asperger's Syndrome.

I doubt whether this advice can help me, and can rid of my shyness. I would
like to talk with the therapist myself, but my psychologist doesn't find
that a good idea. I told the current and the previous psychologist, that I
will stop visiting them, when they are not able to solve the shyness.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Amylee <paulsmom@texoma-ok.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
h7Pk4.76695$905.1566116@news5.giganews.com...
>
> "Samantha Whitfield" <coolcrabs@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
> news:389378B6.1D6AD7A7@smartchat.net.au...
> > Nothing ventured nothing gained!
> > Be Happy :-) Sam.
> >
> > Hans Kamp wrote:
> >
> > > When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I
> looked in
> > > the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me...
> through
> > > the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
> > > No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too
> complicated.
> > > The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are
> there
> > > without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
> > >
> > > But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
>
> Think of the worst thing that could happen. If you could handle that then
go
> for it. I think the worse is that they would laugh at you and turn away.

Yes, and I have several months of feeling bad, and a good reason to delay
making contact with others. I don't understand why I don't have that kind of
fear at Esperanto congresses. Maybe Esperantists, colleagues and pupils of
my school respect me more than others.

> Don't sound that way to me honey, it sounded like they would like to get
to
> know you better. Try, I know it is hard for you, being friendly. You might
> make a new friend or who knows. Luck to you.

Maybe. I realize that, but not at the very moment.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Mike Stanton <stanton@clara.co.uk> schreef in berichtnieuws
v8279sct6tgj7kcuscbhrd3g9kllot22c4@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:08 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
>
> >When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked
in
> >the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me...
through
> >the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
> >No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too
complicated.
> >The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there
> >without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
> >
> >But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
> >
> >--
> >
> >Hans Kamp
> Dear Hans
> this is something you must learn.

Yes, I cannot do that alone.

> The way of the world at present is
> that women usually are more prone to be exploited or victimised by men
> than the other way round.

Indeed. I often read articles in the newspapers (and even in the newspaper
of the pub where my story is about) that girls and women are often victims
of rape and harassment. A few days ago a man raped a 7 years old girl and he
also killed her. Because that was quite despicable, the attorney of Assen,
the Netherlands (where that happened) has demanded that he is condemned to
20 years of prison.

> So when women are in a group they feel powerful, less threatened than
> usual. Women in this situation will see a man like you, who is
> obviously not a predator on women, and think one of two things.

Well, I looked very often at those women, but when I finished reading an
article I looked op, and I caught them looking at them. It seemed that they
didn't change a word with eachother. Some women (but not these women)
interpreted that way of repeating watching as stalking. But I often feel the
same. Sometimes I feel stalked by women. Therefore I often thought (and I
fact I stopped thinking that) that because of that I should avoid pubs. And
I did that for almost 16 years. I do think that that is not healthy
behaviour.

> Either
> they will be cruel and have fun at your expense or they will find you
> sweet and attractive.

In the first case they would laugh to each other, and pointing fingers to
me, or they stand up and walk giggling into my direction. At school I have
much more self-confidence and I would start smiling or giggling too. So the
first case isn't very likely. The only thing that they know about me is that
I am reading a newspaper and that I have been playing darts with my friend.

> You have a choice: to risk humiliation on the chance of pleasure or to
> play safe and leave well alone. The third way of playing the flirting
> game is probably too difficult for you who are both shy and autistic.

Maybe I think the best idea for me is visiting pubs and see how men and
women behave: observing people but in a way that isn't threatening to them.
And after a few weekends of visiting them I could chat with a girl. Some
other autistic friends start to chat pretty immediately and than I am
encouraged to say a few words to the woman or the girl. For me the ice is
broken at such a moment.

> I think you did the right thing. next time go to the bar with a friend
> who is interested in women. I think you need a guide in the game of
> life.

I thought that my friend was interested in women, but after half an hour of
visiting that pub he said that he has an appointment. The glass of Coca Cola
(my second drink) in my hand isn't even empty yet! He is in fact a bisexual,
so he is also interested in women. He gave me a lot of tips that I know
myself, but these tips are very good, but useless if you are shy. "Let's
talk with women," he said before going, but in the pub he was talking with
men, and with a woman that is playing a computer game.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Samantha Whitfield <coolcrabs@smartchat.net.au> schreef in berichtnieuws
3893EDD0.65984E26@smartchat.net.au...
>
>
>
>
> > that women usually are more prone to be exploited or victimised by men
> > than the other way round.
> > So when women are in a group they feel powerful,
>
> Too right I always feel I can lift a refrigerator full of beer over my
head with
> one hand and fight Matilda the boxing Kangeroo with the other :-)
>
> > and think one of two things. Either
> > they will be cruel and have fun at your expense or they will find you
> > sweet and attractive.
>
> I think most would find him sweet and attractive.

Why do you think? I must add that these 2 and the other 2 women didn't know
each other and were sitting at a different table.

> > You have a choice: to risk humiliation on the chance of pleasure
>
> and remember humilation is short term, the pleasure you might get from the
> relationship could be long term.

Yes, I know. But it doesn't help me somehow, when I am sitting at the very
pub.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

> > and remember humilation is short term, the pleasure you might get from the
> > relationship could be long term.
>
> Yes, I know. But it doesn't help me somehow, when I am sitting at the very
> pub.
> Hans Kamp

I can relate to that, it is not easy. start off small. Maybe rather than trying
to ignore their gaze, simply smile, at least that way they would realise you are
friendly and approachable. They may therefore approach you thus helping you
avoid that walk from one end of the bar to the other (used to feel like 100
miles when I did it). I think you definately need to be going with a friend that
likes women, if you dont know anyone then try and team up with another guy at
the pub who is all alone, you never know even if you dont meet a nice girl you
may meet a new drinking partner. I dont know about all women but personally I
can pick up vibes from people and know whether or not they are OK, these women
may also have this power and can see for themselves your a nice guy.
Be Happy :-) sam.

On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:17:37 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>I have talked about it with my psychologist, and I myself proposed to do
>Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. He wanted to consult others and after a few
>weeks he came back. "I have talked with one of the therapist, and I told him
>that you have PDD/NOS. He said that it wouldn't a good idea if he applied
>CBT to autistics. It is unknown how they react." 

Dear Hans,
in the journal "Autism: the International Journal of Research and
Practice" (volume 1, number 2, November 1997 ISSN 1362-3613) there is
an article by Dougal Julian Hare who is the senior clinical
psychologist at the National Autistic Society's Centre for Social and
Communication Disorders which is a very positive account entitled:
The use of cognitive-behavioural therapy with people with Asperger
syndrome; a case study.

He diagnosed my son. I trust him. he says that CBT works for people
with autism.




Take Care

Mike Stanton - parent, teacher and learning all the time.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Furness and South Cumbria Branch  National Autistic Society
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Visit THE WEBSITE 
created by and for people with autism and their families.
http://members.xoom.com/MagsSchwa/index.html

Maybe it is a different game, that mating game between genders, played
between the two genders.  Or maybe it is my concensus that meeting a
nice person is not done very often in a bar.

As far as the ladies smiles, they are certainly flattering.  

My experience in youth was all the young gentleman approached me, it
was not so lady-like to give chase to a desirable male.  This learning
experience cost me two divorces and a few unhappy relationships but I
have learned sometimes a lady is right to choose as it is a mutual
thing.  Most friendship and love takes two to participate.  

But still there is much to be learned of people and what each desire
is.  Some people want only a casual acquaintance and others want a
mate for life. The only way to find out is via communication.  Then if
lucky and each person is true to themselves, then the cogs will click
in and the wheels will become in motion and life can be a dream,
shaboom... shaboom.  

Communication is a deffinete must.  Is rather difficult to talk in a
bar.  

Also, women ain't no alien from mars and most will not bite your nose
off.  If they do growl and snarl, back off from those kind of women
and look for those women who will melt within your arms and will
desire you for the person you are.  Am sure they are still out there
and the fellows are out there too.  The mystery is, getting them to
meet each other!

Always,
cloud



On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:42:32 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>
>Mike Stanton <stanton@clara.co.uk> schreef in berichtnieuws
>v8279sct6tgj7kcuscbhrd3g9kllot22c4@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 22:51:08 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
>>
>> >When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked
>in
>> >the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me...
>through
>> >the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
>> >No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too
>complicated.
>> >The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there
>> >without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
>> >
>> >But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >Hans Kamp
>> Dear Hans
>> this is something you must learn.
>
>Yes, I cannot do that alone.
>
>> The way of the world at present is
>> that women usually are more prone to be exploited or victimised by men
>> than the other way round.
>
>Indeed. I often read articles in the newspapers (and even in the newspaper
>of the pub where my story is about) that girls and women are often victims
>of rape and harassment. A few days ago a man raped a 7 years old girl and he
>also killed her. Because that was quite despicable, the attorney of Assen,
>the Netherlands (where that happened) has demanded that he is condemned to
>20 years of prison.
>
>> So when women are in a group they feel powerful, less threatened than
>> usual. Women in this situation will see a man like you, who is
>> obviously not a predator on women, and think one of two things.
>
>Well, I looked very often at those women, but when I finished reading an
>article I looked op, and I caught them looking at them. It seemed that they
>didn't change a word with eachother. Some women (but not these women)
>interpreted that way of repeating watching as stalking. But I often feel the
>same. Sometimes I feel stalked by women. Therefore I often thought (and I
>fact I stopped thinking that) that because of that I should avoid pubs. And
>I did that for almost 16 years. I do think that that is not healthy
>behaviour.
>
>> Either
>> they will be cruel and have fun at your expense or they will find you
>> sweet and attractive.
>
>In the first case they would laugh to each other, and pointing fingers to
>me, or they stand up and walk giggling into my direction. At school I have
>much more self-confidence and I would start smiling or giggling too. So the
>first case isn't very likely. The only thing that they know about me is that
>I am reading a newspaper and that I have been playing darts with my friend.
>
>> You have a choice: to risk humiliation on the chance of pleasure or to
>> play safe and leave well alone. The third way of playing the flirting
>> game is probably too difficult for you who are both shy and autistic.
>
>Maybe I think the best idea for me is visiting pubs and see how men and
>women behave: observing people but in a way that isn't threatening to them.
>And after a few weekends of visiting them I could chat with a girl. Some
>other autistic friends start to chat pretty immediately and than I am
>encouraged to say a few words to the woman or the girl. For me the ice is
>broken at such a moment.
>
>> I think you did the right thing. next time go to the bar with a friend
>> who is interested in women. I think you need a guide in the game of
>> life.
>
>I thought that my friend was interested in women, but after half an hour of
>visiting that pub he said that he has an appointment. The glass of Coca Cola
>(my second drink) in my hand isn't even empty yet! He is in fact a bisexual,
>so he is also interested in women. He gave me a lot of tips that I know
>myself, but these tips are very good, but useless if you are shy. "Let's
>talk with women," he said before going, but in the pub he was talking with
>men, and with a woman that is playing a computer game.
>
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
>
>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com
>
>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com
>
>
>

pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
389412fa.49917670@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
> Maybe it is a different game, that mating game between genders, played
> between the two genders.  Or maybe it is my concensus that meeting a
> nice person is not done very often in a bar.

No, in fact I prefer to meet a nice person at my work. But there are
significat disadvantages in it. I won't easily date a woman at work, and nor
would I in a bar. For example, a few weeks ago there was a new female
receptionist, about 20 years old.

I showed some interest in her: After one day I asked her: "How was your
first day?" She answered: "Well, there wasn't a lot of things to do, but I
liked it." In those 2 weeks she gave me a KitKat two times. And I gave her a
Bounty Noir (I don't know whether you are familiar with KitKat and Bounty;
they are kinds of chocolate, available in the Netherlands). She is very
sweet, but I might make the same mistake as with the Bulgarian woman (with
whom the e-mail relationship is slow deteriorating, because she starts to
find me a sleezy liar. I am waiting for the explanation of that kind of
accusation; because I have a honest reputation in my environment. I have
told her that I hope to find a woman in my neighborhood and that should give
her a clue).
An accusation of sexual harassment will destroy me, so I do everything
related to women and female pupils with caution.

> As far as the ladies smiles, they are certainly flattering.

They looked me with the well-known "neutral face". I looked away, before a
smile is growing on their faces.

> My experience in youth was all the young gentleman approached me, it
> was not so lady-like to give chase to a desirable male.  This learning
> experience cost me two divorces and a few unhappy relationships but I
> have learned sometimes a lady is right to choose as it is a mutual
> thing.  Most friendship and love takes two to participate.

Indeed. There were many chasing girls and young women that scared me. I
often interpreted it as bullying. And sometimes they are pretty aggressive.
A girl (pupil) asked me to join when I said that I had to go to the toilet.
And a second girl wrote "gorgeous hunk" on a piece of paper and left it on
the desk of my library. That girl (an Iranian) several times told me: "I
love you, Hans!" I find that cute, but I am pretty often not in the mood,
and I sometimes took it as sexual harassment.

> But still there is much to be learned of people and what each desire
> is.  Some people want only a casual acquaintance and others want a
> mate for life. The only way to find out is via communication.  Then if
> lucky and each person is true to themselves, then the cogs will click
> in and the wheels will become in motion and life can be a dream,
> shaboom... shaboom.
>
> Communication is a deffinete must.  Is rather difficult to talk in a
> bar.

Yeah, because of the noice of the music and other people that are talking
with each other.

> Also, women ain't no alien from mars and most will not bite your nose
> off.

:-) No, that is true. At work I came to know that - although most of them
are not autistic - some women are not totally different c.q. aliens for me.

> If they do growl and snarl, back off from those kind of women
> and look for those women who will melt within your arms and will
> desire you for the person you are.  Am sure they are still out there
> and the fellows are out there too.  The mystery is, getting them to
> meet each other!

I thought for years that girls and women are growlers and snarlers.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

I have tried to keep all work related acquaintances just that...
acquaintances.  I find or have found that anything more personal would
cause possible problems in the work field.  This is not to say some
men were not attractive at my job but I did not think it proper to
ever mix a job with ones personal life.

There are many other places to meet people of opposite gender.  I
sorta think the internet is fine as long as the same or greater
perspective is kept when considering the many types of people in this
world DO exist.  On the otherhand, I find leaving no stone unturned
and try to love just who you are and the way you are.  After all, if
someone is truly in love with you then they will accept all of the
qualities you possess... whether they are greater or small.

I don't really believe in a fairy tale world or a life of make
believes but i don't believe you have to change yourself to be loved
either.  Would be like trapping a beautiful song bird in a cage and
expecting the bird to sing just for you.  When you find out the bird
no longer plays the same tune, eventually you find beauty is as much
the freedom you give yourself, as you do another.  Is not to be
possessed but adored.  Is not to be anything but free to love as
freely as it is to survive.  

I think many deny themselves to feel the freedom within themselves and
to know themselves for who they truly are before trying to completely
understand another individual.  This is why it is so very important
that we love ourselves.  To be and appretiate who we are for all we
have and can give and never settle for second best.

Now am sounding to wuzzy so will close here.

Always,
cloud



On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:55:43 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>
>pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
>389412fa.49917670@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
>> Maybe it is a different game, that mating game between genders, played
>> between the two genders.  Or maybe it is my concensus that meeting a
>> nice person is not done very often in a bar.
>
>No, in fact I prefer to meet a nice person at my work. But there are
>significat disadvantages in it. I won't easily date a woman at work, and nor
>would I in a bar. For example, a few weeks ago there was a new female
>receptionist, about 20 years old.
>
>I showed some interest in her: After one day I asked her: "How was your
>first day?" She answered: "Well, there wasn't a lot of things to do, but I
>liked it." In those 2 weeks she gave me a KitKat two times. And I gave her a
>Bounty Noir (I don't know whether you are familiar with KitKat and Bounty;
>they are kinds of chocolate, available in the Netherlands). She is very
>sweet, but I might make the same mistake as with the Bulgarian woman (with
>whom the e-mail relationship is slow deteriorating, because she starts to
>find me a sleezy liar. I am waiting for the explanation of that kind of
>accusation; because I have a honest reputation in my environment. I have
>told her that I hope to find a woman in my neighborhood and that should give
>her a clue).
>An accusation of sexual harassment will destroy me, so I do everything
>related to women and female pupils with caution.
>
>> As far as the ladies smiles, they are certainly flattering.
>
>They looked me with the well-known "neutral face". I looked away, before a
>smile is growing on their faces.
>
>> My experience in youth was all the young gentleman approached me, it
>> was not so lady-like to give chase to a desirable male.  This learning
>> experience cost me two divorces and a few unhappy relationships but I
>> have learned sometimes a lady is right to choose as it is a mutual
>> thing.  Most friendship and love takes two to participate.
>
>Indeed. There were many chasing girls and young women that scared me. I
>often interpreted it as bullying. And sometimes they are pretty aggressive.
>A girl (pupil) asked me to join when I said that I had to go to the toilet.
>And a second girl wrote "gorgeous hunk" on a piece of paper and left it on
>the desk of my library. That girl (an Iranian) several times told me: "I
>love you, Hans!" I find that cute, but I am pretty often not in the mood,
>and I sometimes took it as sexual harassment.
>
>> But still there is much to be learned of people and what each desire
>> is.  Some people want only a casual acquaintance and others want a
>> mate for life. The only way to find out is via communication.  Then if
>> lucky and each person is true to themselves, then the cogs will click
>> in and the wheels will become in motion and life can be a dream,
>> shaboom... shaboom.
>>
>> Communication is a deffinete must.  Is rather difficult to talk in a
>> bar.
>
>Yeah, because of the noice of the music and other people that are talking
>with each other.
>
>> Also, women ain't no alien from mars and most will not bite your nose
>> off.
>
>:-) No, that is true. At work I came to know that - although most of them
>are not autistic - some women are not totally different c.q. aliens for me.
>
>> If they do growl and snarl, back off from those kind of women
>> and look for those women who will melt within your arms and will
>> desire you for the person you are.  Am sure they are still out there
>> and the fellows are out there too.  The mystery is, getting them to
>> meet each other!
>
>I thought for years that girls and women are growlers and snarlers.
>
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
>
>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com
>
>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com
>
>
>

In article <t9289s05371iu68vqr11htu2pfvge1phj3@4ax.com>,
  stanton@totalise.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:17:37 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
>
> >I have talked about it with my psychologist, and I myself proposed
to do
> >Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. He wanted to consult others and after a
few
> >weeks he came back. "I have talked with one of the therapist, and I
told him
> >that you have PDD/NOS. He said that it wouldn't a good idea if he
applied
> >CBT to autistics. It is unknown how they react."
>
> Dear Hans,
> in the journal "Autism: the International Journal of Research and
> Practice" (volume 1, number 2, November 1997 ISSN 1362-3613) there is
> an article by Dougal Julian Hare who is the senior clinical
> psychologist at the National Autistic Society's Centre for Social and
> Communication Disorders which is a very positive account entitled:
> The use of cognitive-behavioural therapy with people with Asperger
> syndrome; a case study.
>
> He diagnosed my son. I trust him. he says that CBT works for people
> with autism.

I will confront my psychologist with this.

Hans Kamp.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

In article <872rd1$loi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  King <raffaele@my-deja.com> wrote:
> <Like the original article, this is crossposted to:
> alt.support.loneliness
> alt.support.shyness
> bit.listserv.autism>
>
> Hi Mike and Hans!
>
> Well met again, Hans! I assume that you hardly remind
> that we have exchanged a couple of posts during July 1998
> (you explained me about the origin of the name "Kamp").

I almost don't remember it anymore, but that can be true.

> I suggest to print and read the article quoted by Mike.

Do you know where I can find it on the Internet? Maybe I should go to
Altavista (my favorite search engine), and do a search with "autism"
and "CBT". I could get interesting search results.

> Then try and discuss it with your psy. Maybe handle
> him a further copy and wait 'til he has the time to
> read and reflect about the matter. From the reaction
> you will observe (his original statement being likely
> to be proven groundless by the evidence you gave) a
> significant information on his attitude will arise.

I will do. He told me that in fact I am partly my own therapist by
applying CBT. I try to think things how they are in the reality,
without being influenced too much by my feelings and subjective
thoughts. That is what I think that CBT is about.

> Then, you will have feedback to decide as to whether
> to keep going there - I have in mind your further
> posts here.
>
> On a different topic, I'v visited your site. Interesting
> issues on both languages and midi files.

Yes. I want to translate in Dutch and Esperanto too. But my website
isn't complete yet. I think there are a lot of things to do.

> I am a bit puzzled about the former: the fonts you are
> using to describe your artificial language do appear as
> squares while they are supposed to be different characters.
> I got no clues from the HTML source either.

The best view you get if you use Windows 98 or NT and the full
installation of Microsoft Internet Explorer. I used Cyrillic letters
(the same as Russian, Bulgarian and Serbian), but some weeks later I
added the Latin transcription to it, and it is the same as the
transcription in the known Slavic languages.

> As to the midis, good music. Congratulations! I do also
> appreciate your technical skills - I see that the ratio
> size/time is much lower than usual.

What do you mean by "the ratio size/time is much lower than usual"?

> Do you mind if I
> happen to use one or more of them (with credit and/or
> a link)?

Sorry, I am afraid that I am missing the clue here. What do you mean,
and what would you like to do?

Hans Kamp.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
38946bbd.7743282@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
> I have tried to keep all work related acquaintances just that...
> acquaintances.  I find or have found that anything more personal would
> cause possible problems in the work field.  This is not to say some
> men were not attractive at my job but I did not think it proper to
> ever mix a job with ones personal life.

That is also my opinion. I never mix a job affairs with privacy affair. At
this moment my father is my boss, but I act as if my father and my boss are
two persons. As you know I am a librarian, but my father is a location
manager of the building where I work. But most of the time I consult
coordinators and class teachers if there are some problems. When we talk
about functioning I talk with my previous boss.

It is a bit harder to convince female pupils that a relationship between one
of them and me are out of the question, but I think that I mustn't be
unfriendly towards them, if there is no need to do so. See one of my other
postings, how I aborted the attempt of one of the girls to make a date with
me (they want to go with me to McDonald's the next Saturday, because they
saw me the last Saturday (29th of January), whereas I didn't notice them.

> There are many other places to meet people of opposite gender.  I
> sorta think the internet is fine as long as the same or greater
> perspective is kept when considering the many types of people in this
> world DO exist.

The Internet is a good thing, but I don't believe in relationships starting
on the Internet. I think that some of you remember David Medzianik (a 42
years old man that wanted a relationship by contacting this newsgroup). Both
he and I have the same problem, but I don't believe in an Internet
relationship, although corresponding by e-mail is not wrong at all, IMO.

> On the otherhand, I find leaving no stone unturned
> and try to love just who you are and the way you are.  After all, if
> someone is truly in love with you then they will accept all of the
> qualities you possess... whether they are greater or small.

I don't tend to think that people may fall in love with me. I tend to think
that they are not honest.

> I don't really believe in a fairy tale world or a life of make
> believes but i don't believe you have to change yourself to be loved
> either.  Would be like trapping a beautiful song bird in a cage and
> expecting the bird to sing just for you.  When you find out the bird
> no longer plays the same tune, eventually you find beauty is as much
> the freedom you give yourself, as you do another.  Is not to be
> possessed but adored.  Is not to be anything but free to love as
> freely as it is to survive.
>
> I think many deny themselves to feel the freedom within themselves and
> to know themselves for who they truly are before trying to completely
> understand another individual.  This is why it is so very important
> that we love ourselves.  To be and appretiate who we are for all we
> have and can give and never settle for second best.

I did love myself, but the problem is that others successfully convinced me
that I am a stupid autistic retarded moron. And I don't tend to take women
seriously, when they say they like me. Saying is not enough. Giving several
signals and acting, that is what convinces me, just saying is, is the same
as saying that 1 + 1 = 3, because no-one believes that kind of bullshit.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Chloe, Hans:

I speak only from what I know and have learned. I would not be able to
tell you an apple turns into a watermellon UNLESS I have found it to
be true.  

Thing is, is not for me to have to prove myself because I know I speak
the truth... is for you to accept what I say or simply disagree and
turn away.  I have nothing to gain for.  I give only from what if feel
is a desire of my own to share.

As for mental illness... i am not a stranger to this.  I have a son
I've loved and he has his share of problems but i love him just they
way he is.  Many times, I have found autistic kids can possess a
greater abundance of knowledge then those who are not. I can not say I
know what it's like to be autistic but I can say I know what it takes
to love someone with those qualities... and honey, they are qualities!

Next on the agenda, re: "leaving no stone unturned" = I met a man on
the internet around Feb.1995... spoke to him for over a year, finally
meeting him in person on Oct8th, 1996... we married on Nov. 3rd 1997
and life could not be better.  Is the best marriage decision I have
ever made, considering 2 divorces before this. 

As far as me and ASL... am here because I love people and want to say
there is hope after lonliness.  Lots of it too, so hang in there!!  I
spent 9 years struggling and was able to fight an ugly divorce
custody, able to regain custody of kids who are now grown, bought a
house, had a professional carreer, new customized pickup truck the
works!!... but had no one to share it with. Money just ain't nothin'
but a hill of beans when your wanting to be loved.  

But before all this, I am a person.  Just a person.  Trying to keep
the strength it takes to pick up the pieces and move on.  I coulda let
myself down and let myself settle for no one but my own two shoes.
Woulda been easiest to quit. Ain't nothin' great will ever come easy.
Am happiest to share.  Is my decision to share and care about those
around me.  

So... this is just my way of saying, there are those people in life
are authentic.  

Thanks Hans, for the replys... am still learning!

Always,
cloud

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 17:04:53 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>
>pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
>38946bbd.7743282@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
>> I have tried to keep all work related acquaintances just that...
>> acquaintances.  I find or have found that anything more personal would
>> cause possible problems in the work field.  This is not to say some
>> men were not attractive at my job but I did not think it proper to
>> ever mix a job with ones personal life.
>
>That is also my opinion. I never mix a job affairs with privacy affair. At
>this moment my father is my boss, but I act as if my father and my boss are
>two persons. As you know I am a librarian, but my father is a location
>manager of the building where I work. But most of the time I consult
>coordinators and class teachers if there are some problems. When we talk
>about functioning I talk with my previous boss.
>
>It is a bit harder to convince female pupils that a relationship between one
>of them and me are out of the question, but I think that I mustn't be
>unfriendly towards them, if there is no need to do so. See one of my other
>postings, how I aborted the attempt of one of the girls to make a date with
>me (they want to go with me to McDonald's the next Saturday, because they
>saw me the last Saturday (29th of January), whereas I didn't notice them.
>
>> There are many other places to meet people of opposite gender.  I
>> sorta think the internet is fine as long as the same or greater
>> perspective is kept when considering the many types of people in this
>> world DO exist.
>
>The Internet is a good thing, but I don't believe in relationships starting
>on the Internet. I think that some of you remember David Medzianik (a 42
>years old man that wanted a relationship by contacting this newsgroup). Both
>he and I have the same problem, but I don't believe in an Internet
>relationship, although corresponding by e-mail is not wrong at all, IMO.
>
>> On the otherhand, I find leaving no stone unturned
>> and try to love just who you are and the way you are.  After all, if
>> someone is truly in love with you then they will accept all of the
>> qualities you possess... whether they are greater or small.
>
>I don't tend to think that people may fall in love with me. I tend to think
>that they are not honest.
>
>> I don't really believe in a fairy tale world or a life of make
>> believes but i don't believe you have to change yourself to be loved
>> either.  Would be like trapping a beautiful song bird in a cage and
>> expecting the bird to sing just for you.  When you find out the bird
>> no longer plays the same tune, eventually you find beauty is as much
>> the freedom you give yourself, as you do another.  Is not to be
>> possessed but adored.  Is not to be anything but free to love as
>> freely as it is to survive.
>>
>> I think many deny themselves to feel the freedom within themselves and
>> to know themselves for who they truly are before trying to completely
>> understand another individual.  This is why it is so very important
>> that we love ourselves.  To be and appretiate who we are for all we
>> have and can give and never settle for second best.
>
>I did love myself, but the problem is that others successfully convinced me
>that I am a stupid autistic retarded moron. And I don't tend to take women
>seriously, when they say they like me. Saying is not enough. Giving several
>signals and acting, that is what convinces me, just saying is, is the same
>as saying that 1 + 1 = 3, because no-one believes that kind of bullshit.
>
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
>
>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com
>
>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com
>
>
>

Maybe you need to learn some pick up lines, for the lack of a better phrase.
Paul is only eight but if he likes a girl he will go up to her and say "I
know that I am cute but you can't kiss me until I know you better" This
works for him maybe some people here will give you ideas on what to say. I
have no idea on what it is like to be shy so I will say good luck to you.
--
Amylee, mom to Paul (a sweet kid), Clyde (the best hubby in the world), and
Shaker (who has gotten really big and is getting mean)

pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
3895e877.6824831@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
> Chloe, Hans:
>
> I speak only from what I know and have learned. I would not be able to
> tell you an apple turns into a watermellon UNLESS I have found it to
> be true.

Sorry, if I sounded too rude, I just wanted to explain why there is such a
little difference between sexual harrassment and inappropriate dating.

> Thing is, is not for me to have to prove myself because I know I speak
> the truth... is for you to accept what I say or simply disagree and
> turn away.  I have nothing to gain for.  I give only from what if feel
> is a desire of my own to share.

I didn't want to offend you, but I criticize the young women and girls in
the past.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 21:50:48 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:

>
>pam / aka cloud9 <cloudninNOSPAM@bellsouth.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
>3895e877.6824831@news1.lig.bellsouth.net...
>> Chloe, Hans:
>>
>> I speak only from what I know and have learned. I would not be able to
>> tell you an apple turns into a watermellon UNLESS I have found it to
>> be true.
>
>Sorry, if I sounded too rude, I just wanted to explain why there is such a
>little difference between sexual harrassment and inappropriate dating.
>
>> Thing is, is not for me to have to prove myself because I know I speak
>> the truth... is for you to accept what I say or simply disagree and
>> turn away.  I have nothing to gain for.  I give only from what if feel
>> is a desire of my own to share.
>
>I didn't want to offend you, but I criticize the young women and girls in
>the past.
>

am by no means offended... ah, am almost flattered!  i was almost
young when i misread the above sentence... dang!
 but thanks still
cloud
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
>
>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com
>
>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com
>
>
>

<Like the original article, this is crossposted to:
alt.support.loneliness
alt.support.shyness
bit.listserv.autism>

Hi Mike and Hans!

Thank you for the relevant info Mike, this is precisely
what Hans needed to reply his question. Welcome to ASL,
I carry your words in case other people need them. Some
time ago the Asperger's Syndrome has been mentioned here.

Well met again, Hans! I assume that you hardly remind
that we have exchanged a couple of posts during July 1998
(you explained me about the origin of the name "Kamp").

I suggest to print and read the article quoted by Mike.

Then try and discuss it with your psy. Maybe handle
him a further copy and wait 'til he has the time to
read and reflect about the matter. From the reaction
you will observe (his original statement being likely
to be proven groundless by the evidence you gave) a
significant information on his attitude will arise.

Then, you will have feedback to decide as to whether
to keep going there - I have in mind your further
posts here.

On a different topic, I'v visited your site. Interesting
issues on both languages and midi files.

I am a bit puzzled about the former: the fonts you are
using to describe your artificial language do appear as
squares while they are supposed to be different characters.
I got no clues from the HTML source either.

As to the midis, good music. Congratulations! I do also
appreciate your technical skills - I see that the ratio
size/time is much lower than usual. Do you mind if I
happen to use one or more of them (with credit and/or
a link)?

In article <t9289s05371iu68vqr11htu2pfvge1phj3@4ax.com>,
  stanton@totalise.co.uk wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2000 08:17:37 GMT, "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
>
> >I have talked about it with my psychologist, and I myself proposed
to do
> >Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. He wanted to consult others and after a
few
> >weeks he came back. "I have talked with one of the therapist, and I
told him
> >that you have PDD/NOS. He said that it wouldn't a good idea if he
applied
> >CBT to autistics. It is unknown how they react."
>
> Dear Hans,
> in the journal "Autism: the International Journal of Research and
> Practice" (volume 1, number 2, November 1997 ISSN 1362-3613) there is
> an article by Dougal Julian Hare who is the senior clinical
> psychologist at the National Autistic Society's Centre for Social and
> Communication Disorders which is a very positive account entitled:
> The use of cognitive-behavioural therapy with people with Asperger
> syndrome; a case study.
>
> He diagnosed my son. I trust him. he says that CBT works for people
> with autism.
>
> Take Care
>
> Mike Stanton - parent, teacher and learning all the time.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Furness and South Cumbria Branch  National Autistic Society
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Visit THE WEBSITE
> created by and for people with autism and their families.
> http://members.xoom.com/MagsSchwa/index.html
>

--
All the best
Raffaele (King)

*** Homepage ***
<http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/>

*** ASL RAF FAQ ***
<http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/aslfaq.html>

--
All the best
             Raffaele (King)

<http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

"Michael Snyder" <msnyder@ispchannel.com> wrote in message
news:i6El4.199$Nr3.30656@newsin1.ispchannel.com...
>
> Amylee wrote in message ...
>
> >I bet a friend of mine one time to go up and just kiss this guy. It
didn't
> >hurt that she was beautiful. They have been married now for fifteen
years.
>
> Cute, but that strategy would probably work better for a woman
> (to use on a man) than vice versa.  It might get a man thrown out
> of the bar (or whatever venue), if not worse.

That is so true.
--
Amylee, mom to Paul (a sweet kid), Clyde (the best hubby in the world), and
Shaker (who has gotten really big and is getting mean) now Palo too!!!!!!!

> I have tried to keep all work related acquaintances just that...
> acquaintances.  I find or have found that anything more personal would
> cause possible problems in the work field.  This is not to say some
> men were not attractive at my job but I did not think it proper to
> ever mix a job with ones personal life.

Working with ASD kids I find women don't really want to get to close so I
don't have much chance to meet ppl.

> I think many deny themselves to feel the freedom within themselves and
> to know themselves for who they truly are before trying to completely
> understand another individual.  This is why it is so very important
> that we love ourselves.  To be and appretiate who we are for all we
> have and can give and never settle for second best.

I agree. NT aside it has taken many years for me to love myself. Even so I
find it very hard to approach women I don't know and talk to them.

Best wishes
David

In article <8748ob$km3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
  hanskamp@my-deja.com wrote:

> In article <872rd1$loi$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   King <raffaele@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > <Like the original article, this is crossposted to:
> > alt.support.loneliness
> > alt.support.shyness
> > bit.listserv.autism>

> > Well met again, Hans! I assume that you hardly remind
> > that we have exchanged a couple of posts during July 1998
> > (you explained me about the origin of the name "Kamp").
>
> I almost don't remember it anymore, but that can be true.

July, 1st, but it doesn't matter. Perhaps without that
detail I wouldn't have remembered myselt, either.

> > I suggest to print and read the article quoted by Mike.

> Do you know where I can find it on the Internet? Maybe I should go to
> Altavista (my favorite search engine), and do a search with "autism"
> and "CBT". I could get interesting search results.

I assume that you can manage via search engines
exaclty as I would try myself. Alternatively,
try the closest University that can have such a
journal. Usually each Department has a library
storing them accordingly with their specialization.
I have no idea of your exact location, but Holland
has many. The data you have are enough to find it if
available. Then probably you can copy it paying just
the cost of copies.

> I will do. He told me that in fact I am partly my own therapist by
> applying CBT. I try to think things how they are in the reality,
> without being influenced too much by my feelings and subjective
> thoughts. That is what I think that CBT is about.

Good luck then.

> Yes. I want to translate in Dutch and Esperanto too. But my website
> isn't complete yet. I think there are a lot of things to do.

Everything in the Web is under construction. It is the
major difference with printed books and the like. Sites
are "alive" and ready to change any time.

> The best view you get if you use Windows 98 or NT and the full
> installation of Microsoft Internet Explorer. I used Cyrillic letters
> (the same as Russian, Bulgarian and Serbian), but some weeks later I
> added the Latin transcription to it, and it is the same as the
> transcription in the known Slavic languages.

Thank you for the tips. I've figured out what is happened,
as also further supposedly Cyrillic letters were not on
sight.

> What do you mean by "the ratio size/time is much lower than usual"?

It seems that size in KB divided by time in minutes gives
around 10-12 for your files. Most midis I've found in the
web tend to have higher ratios. This means that your files
are efficient from this viewpoint.

> Sorry, I am afraid that I am missing the clue here. What do you mean,
> and what would you like to do?

Opps... I've been unclear. Just using one or more of
them for my website. Not sure if I'll actually do, but
I like to have many different musics there.

> Hans Kamp.

--
All the best
             Raffaele (King)

<http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/>


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

I don't think you should feel bad, Hans.  Because there was more than one
woman, this was an awkward situation.  I don't think MOST people would feel
comfortable "ganged up on" like that.  If ONE woman is looking at you,
that's one thing (or, er, one WOMAN :-).  But it's very intimidating to
confront/approach TWO, or four, or...I think I would have just kept reading
my newspaper, or left.  Even if you had smiled, where would you direct the
smile?  Too many faces!

And knocking on the window?  Sounds pretty childish (you did say they were
"girls").

bars and pubs are lousy places to make meaningful contacts.  I think
bookstores are good places.  Sometimes grocery stores, laundromats, dog
shows...

Don't feel bad.  Shyness is not a sin, and it needn't be a barrier.  It's
who you are, and it can be very appealing.
heck, lots of shy people would never even go out to such a public, raucous
place!

And lots of people can't play darts! :-)


Hans Kamp wrote in message ...
>I went with a friend of mine to a pub (a "kroeg" in Dutch), and my friend
>told that he wants to play darts (that pub has a possibility to play that
>there). He was practicing a bit and I decided to drink some beer (since I
>don't have medication it isn't a problem, but I only drink beer when I am
>going out, at a party or something, but I never drink beer at home. The
staf
>members of the group home only don't disallow to drink alcoholics if the
>inhabitant isn't alcoholistic, doesn't have medication that cannot be used
>together with alcohol, etc).
>
>When I saw my friend playing I saw two women looking at me. I looked
several
>times back, but that is the only thing I did. After a few minutes I saw 2
>another women looking at me. I decided to look back but I did nothing. I
>started to play darts with my friend, but I am a very bad player. I have
>never really played it.
>
>After playing it I went with him to a gambling machine. I saw people
>playing. In fact my friend is (as myself) autistic, but he is less shy than
>I am. He starts to chat with gamblers. Some people start to talk with me. I
>think it is a 20 years old guy: "Hey, in this case it isn't bad to drink
too
>much alcohol" and he points his finger to a video racing game. "Haha, no,
it
>isn't." But I didn't say much back. I am not very talkative to strangers,
>and I don't tend to talk with female strangers.
>
>My friend says: "I also want to drink something."
>I: "That is okay."
>After a few minutes (I didn't finish my glass of Coca Cola) he says: "I am
>going to a gay pub, I have an appointment there." He is not only autistic,
>but he is also gay. I am not gay, so I haven't a sexual relationship with
>him. I am sitting at the same table as where I sat before my friend asked
me
>to come with him to the gambling machine and the videogames.
>The first two women are away, but the second two women resumed looking at
>me. I start to smile because a woman was talking loud (but she wasn't
>angry). I start to smile, and she looks at me. I am reading a newspaper all
>the time. I thought "I am too shy to react; when I finish reading it, I am
>going home." Several times I look up, and I see the same 2 women looking at
>me, perhaps for minutes. What if I start to talk to them? How would they
>react? Will they insult me because I might be strange to them? I think I am
>going to leave because I am alone now... and I finished reading the
>newspaper. I stand up, and I saw the women following my moves. I walk
>outside.
>
>When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked
in
>the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me... through
>the window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds.
>No... I think I am going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too
complicated.
>The 4 women might be too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there
>without their boy-friends, or they are testing me out, which I hate...
>
>But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.
>
>--
>
>Hans Kamp
>
>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com
>
>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com
>
>
>

Amylee wrote:

> Maybe you need to learn some pick up lines, for the lack of a better phrase.
> Paul is only eight but if he likes a girl he will go up to her and say "I
> know that I am cute but you can't kiss me until I know you better"

I wish my daughter were more particular, so far she has kissed most of the boys
in her class (slight exaggeration) :-) I was told the other day she is going to
marry Thomas F (she doesnt know his last name). 'why I asked'. 'because he runs
really fast and colours in really good' LOL I have to admit I would never marry
a guy who couldnt stay in the lines :-)

> This
> works for him maybe some people here will give you ideas on what to say.

If I liked the look of someone at at bar (when I was single). I would rush up to
them and give them a big hug and pretend like I knew them......Mmmm... on second
thoughts thats how I met my husband :-)

Be Happy :-) Sam.

"Samantha Whitfield" <coolcrabs@smartchat.net.au> wrote in message
news:38967392.40AF86C9@smartchat.net.au...
>
>
> Amylee wrote:
>
> > Maybe you need to learn some pick up lines, for the lack of a better
phrase.
> > Paul is only eight but if he likes a girl he will go up to her and say
"I
> > know that I am cute but you can't kiss me until I know you better"
>
> I wish my daughter were more particular, so far she has kissed most of the
boys
> in her class (slight exaggeration) :-) I was told the other day she is
going to
> marry Thomas F (she doesnt know his last name). 'why I asked'. 'because he
runs
> really fast and colours in really good' LOL I have to admit I would never
marry
> a guy who couldnt stay in the lines :-)
>
> > This
> > works for him maybe some people here will give you ideas on what to say.
>
> If I liked the look of someone at at bar (when I was single). I would rush
up to
> them and give them a big hug and pretend like I knew them......Mmmm... on
second
> thoughts thats how I met my husband :-)
>
> Be Happy :-) Sam.

I bet a friend of mine one time to go up and just kiss this guy. It didn't
hurt that she was beautiful. They have been married now for fifteen years.

--
Amylee, mom to Paul (a sweet kid), Clyde (the best hubby in the world), and
Shaker (who has gotten really big and is getting mean)

Amylee wrote in message ...

>I bet a friend of mine one time to go up and just kiss this guy. It didn't
>hurt that she was beautiful. They have been married now for fifteen years.

Cute, but that strategy would probably work better for a woman
(to use on a man) than vice versa.  It might get a man thrown out
of the bar (or whatever venue), if not worse.

Lane Browning <rainmaid@worldnet.att.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
mspl4.203$6B1.35175@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I don't think you should feel bad, Hans.  Because there was more than one
> woman, this was an awkward situation.

Yes, but some years ago 2 women asked me to go to the centre of Assisi
(while we were at Santa Maria degli Angeli; this all happened in Italy).
First I hesistated, I wanted to say "no", but I said "yes", why not. In
certain circumstances I found 2 or more women less threatening because there
is no seduction than just one woman. When they are a bit younger, one woman
is less annoying than 2 or more, because in a group they feel stronger.

> I don't think MOST people would feel
> comfortable "ganged up on" like that.  If ONE woman is looking at you,
> that's one thing (or, er, one WOMAN :-).  But it's very intimidating to
> confront/approach TWO, or four, or...I think I would have just kept
reading
> my newspaper, or left.  Even if you had smiled, where would you direct the
> smile?  Too many faces!

Yes, I don't know whom to smile at. I can go to talk to one woman, but I
didn't want to exclude the other. I find seduction of one woman more
difficult (if I am even able to seduce one) while there is also her
girl-friend. I would discriminate the other.

> And knocking on the window?  Sounds pretty childish (you did say they were
> "girls").

Maybe knocking can be intrepreted as greating or drawing attention. It is
possible that the 2 women wanted me to look back. Sometimes people knock at
me, because they want to tell me something. In the Netherlands knocking at
the window can have several meanings. Knocking is not childish at all.

And it is difficult to judge whether they are girls or women. I think they
are about 20 years old. Then you are "between" boy and man, or "between"
girl or woman. In the Dutch law the words "jongen" (boy) and "meisje" (girl)
doesn't even exist! You talk about "14-jarige vrouw" (14 years old woman) or
"14-jarige man" (14 years old man).

> bars and pubs are lousy places to make meaningful contacts.

Indeed. Especially because the music in "kroegen" (plural of "kroeg") is
louder than I sometimes see in American movies (but less loud than in
dancings).

> I think
> bookstores are good places.  Sometimes grocery stores, laundromats, dog
> shows...

Yes... but "laundromats" don't exist in the Netherlands. And although I
won't reject your advices, but at grocery stores people don't tend to talk
to each other, unless there is a very significant happening or people are
getting bored because they are too long in a queue; then they start to talk
with each other.

> Don't feel bad.  Shyness is not a sin, and it needn't be a barrier.  It's
> who you are, and it can be very appealing.

Yes, but many shy people feel shyness as a handicap. This statement is not
very appreciated in a newsgroup like news:alt.support.shyness.

> heck, lots of shy people would never even go out to such a public, raucous
> place!

In fact I am not so shy anymore that I would avoid pubs or "kroegen".

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Michael Snyder <msnyder@ispchannel.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
i6El4.199$Nr3.30656@newsin1.ispchannel.com...
>
> Amylee wrote in message ...
>
> >I bet a friend of mine one time to go up and just kiss this guy. It
didn't
> >hurt that she was beautiful. They have been married now for fifteen
years.
>
> Cute, but that strategy would probably work better for a woman
> (to use on a man) than vice versa.  It might get a man thrown out
> of the bar (or whatever venue), if not worse.

In the Netherlands there is a fair chance to get arrested by the police, and
asked "why you kissed a female complete stranger".

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

King <raffaele@my-deja.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
875b56$fjj$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <8748ob$km3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
>   hanskamp@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Yes. I want to translate in Dutch and Esperanto too. But my website
> > isn't complete yet. I think there are a lot of things to do.
>
> Everything in the Web is under construction. It is the
> major difference with printed books and the like. Sites
> are "alive" and ready to change any time.

I think that websites are very useful for having an electronic magazine, and
that sites are "alive" makes them particularly interesting. I think I have
to "reanimate" my website :-), because the last few weeks there were no
changes to it, I just use it for anonymous administration of the books in my
school library.

> > What do you mean by "the ratio size/time is much lower than usual"?
>
> It seems that size in KB divided by time in minutes gives
> around 10-12 for your files. Most midis I've found in the
> web tend to have higher ratios. This means that your files
> are efficient from this viewpoint.

They are made by using Cubase VST 3.5. I think that synthesizer music (or at
least the music I make) has more MIDI commands than for example classical
music, because classical music have much longer notes, and have less complex
chord patterns, and the rhythm (I mean the drum, like Base Drum, HiHat,
Snare Drum, Hand Claps, etc.) is often absent. I think these ratios are even
higher with house and techno music.

> > Sorry, I am afraid that I am missing the clue here. What do you mean,
> > and what would you like to do?
>
> Opps... I've been unclear. Just using one or more of
> them for my website. Not sure if I'll actually do, but
> I like to have many different musics there.

What is the address of your website? I could have a look there.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

In article <Ht2m4.223$Oi6.16336@news.rdc1.ov.nl.home.com>,
  "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
>
> King <raffaele@my-deja.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 875b56$fjj$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <8748ob$km3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> >   hanskamp@my-deja.com wrote:

> > Everything in the Web is under construction. It is the
> > major difference with printed books and the like. Sites
> > are "alive" and ready to change any time.

> I think that websites are very useful for having an
> electronic magazine, and that sites are "alive" makes
> them particularly interesting.

Yes, and the idea of a magazine with "issues" that are
weekly, monthly etc. is overcomed by a site that may be
far more flexible in that.

> I think I have to "reanimate" my website :-), because
> the last few weeks there were no changes to it, I just
> use it for anonymous administration of the books in my
> school library.

> They are made by using Cubase VST 3.5. I think that
> synthesizer music (or at least the music I make) has
> more MIDI commands than for example classical
> music, because classical music have much longer notes,
> and have less complex chord patterns, and the rhythm
> (I mean the drum, like Base Drum, HiHat,
> Snare Drum, Hand Claps, etc.) is often absent.
> I think these ratios are even higher with house and
> techno music.

> What is the address of your website? I could have a look there.

Thank you for your interest. The URL is:
<http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/>.

> --
>
> Hans Kamp
>
> hmkamp@home.nl
> info@hanskamp.com
> hans@hanskamp.com
>
> Website/Hejmpagho
> http://www.hanskamp.com
--
All the best
             Raffaele (King)


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

King <raffaele@my-deja.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
87d7pe$6i6$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Ht2m4.223$Oi6.16336@news.rdc1.ov.nl.home.com>,
>   "Hans Kamp" <hmkamp@home.nl> wrote:
> >
> > King <raffaele@my-deja.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
> > 875b56$fjj$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > In article <8748ob$km3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > >   hanskamp@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > > Everything in the Web is under construction. It is the
> > > major difference with printed books and the like. Sites
> > > are "alive" and ready to change any time.
>
> > I think that websites are very useful for having an
> > electronic magazine, and that sites are "alive" makes
> > them particularly interesting.
>
> Yes, and the idea of a magazine with "issues" that are
> weekly, monthly etc. is overcomed by a site that may be
> far more flexible in that.
>
> > I think I have to "reanimate" my website :-), because
> > the last few weeks there were no changes to it, I just
> > use it for anonymous administration of the books in my
> > school library.
>
> > They are made by using Cubase VST 3.5. I think that
> > synthesizer music (or at least the music I make) has
> > more MIDI commands than for example classical
> > music, because classical music have much longer notes,
> > and have less complex chord patterns, and the rhythm
> > (I mean the drum, like Base Drum, HiHat,
> > Snare Drum, Hand Claps, etc.) is often absent.
> > I think these ratios are even higher with house and
> > techno music.
>
> > What is the address of your website? I could have a look there.
>
> Thank you for your interest. The URL is:
> <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/.

A very cool site! I like the music that is played each time I enter a page.
You have good music like "Baker Street" and "Stairways to Heaven"! The first
music I am confronted with, immediately after clicking on your link above
reminds me about the music of "Warcraft II". As I told you I am very
sensitive to sound, so I am able to pick the sound from each melody. But I
can also look on the display of my music workstation that starts to play
when entering a webpage of your site. But I am trained to recognize each
instrument played in each song. I also like the diversity in the music on
your website. That is why my own music also is a bit diverse although you
hear Dance and Ambient more often than the other styles.

As you already know I compose music myself, so that I can get some ideas for
my future compositions, that I want to write and that are not written yet.

In your site you mentioned Civilization I and II. I was and am still
addicted to the Civilization series. I have Civ I, II, TOT (Test Of Time)
and CTP (Call To Power). Firaxis (http://www.firaxis.com) is working on
Civilization III.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Unicorn <Unicorn_4_Magic@yahoo.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
OAV8vMKc$GA.312@cpmsnbbsa03...
> Hans,
> May I link you on my website I am constructing?
> Pamela

Yes. You can see the address of my website below.

--

Hans Kamp

hmkamp@home.nl
info@hanskamp.com
hans@hanskamp.com

Website/Hejmpagho
http://www.hanskamp.com

Hi Hans...

you'll never know the answers to your questions unless you answer them for
yourself... and the only real answer is doing it...

nothing will happen except the same feeling you hate if you don't do
something... could anything else that might happen be much worse than the
feeling you already feel?...

I've read some of you posts and you are literate, intelligent, insightful, and
your words have much worth... this suggests that you - your heart and mind that
produces your words - have much worth as well... no one will know this unless
you open up and share yourself...

and what if some laugh or don't appreciate your worth?... their loss, truly...
for they miss out of knowing you... and that makes them foolish, and personally,
I'm happy when foolish people let me know they are foolish, for I'd rather not
hang around them...

wise, caring, worthwhile people will care about you and appreciate you... you'll
find them if you let them know you... you just need to face the foolish ones and
walk passed them, even if they are laughing (and not all do, some just are rude
or silent)... focus on the ones who aren't...

easier said than done, but my suggestions just the same... hope you've found
some worth in reading me tonight :)

honest love, ric

PS... your music is beautiful (as far as the limits of my little laptop will
reproduce the sounds)... I'd like to save some of the pieces you've created if
that's ok with you... maybe when I put some music on my site  you'll let me use
a couple and link back to your site so others can appreciate your gifts... I
also keep a diary-type journal on my site and appreciate anyone who does, so
thanks for yours... I must admit, I'm a big Sci-Fi fan but didn't like Alien
Nation much either... though the idea could have worth if done with more
creativity :)

*   a friend is a stranger waiting to be met     *
*   a friend is a stranger wanting to be met    *
*   a friend is a stranger willing to be met      *



Hans Kamp wrote in message ...
>I went with a friend of mine to a pub (a "kroeg" in Dutch), and my friend
told that he wants to play darts (that pub has a possibility to play that
there). He was practicing a bit and I decided to drink some beer (since I
don't have medication it isn't a problem, but I only drink beer when I am
going out, at a party or something, but I never drink beer at home. The staf
members of the group home only don't disallow to drink alcoholics if the
inhabitant isn't alcoholistic, doesn't have medication that cannot be used
together with alcohol, etc).

>When I saw my friend playing I saw two women looking at me. I looked several
times back, but that is the only thing I did. After a few minutes I saw 2
another women looking at me. I decided to look back but I did nothing. I started
to play darts with my friend, but I am a very bad player. I have never really
played it.

>After playing it I went with him to a gambling machine. I saw people
>playing. In fact my friend is (as myself) autistic, but he is less shy than
>I am. He starts to chat with gamblers. Some people start to talk with me. I
think it is a 20 years old guy: "Hey, in this case it isn't bad to drink too
much alcohol" and he points his finger to a video racing game. "Haha, no, it
isn't." But I didn't say much back. I am not very talkative to strangers, and I
don't tend to talk with female strangers.

>My friend says: "I also want to drink something."
>I: "That is okay."
>After a few minutes (I didn't finish my glass of Coca Cola) he says: "I am
going to a gay pub, I have an appointment there." He is not only autistic, but
he is also gay. I am not gay, so I haven't a sexual relationship with him. I am
sitting at the same table as where I sat before my friend asked me to come with
him to the gambling machine and the videogames.
>The first two women are away, but the second two women resumed looking at me. I
start to smile because a woman was talking loud (but she wasn't angry). I start
to smile, and she looks at me. I am reading a newspaper all the time. I thought
"I am too shy to react; when I finish reading it, I am going home." Several
times I look up, and I see the same 2 women looking at me, perhaps for minutes.
What if I start to talk to them? How would they react? Will they insult me
because I might be strange to them? I think I am going to leave because I am
alone now... and I finished reading the newspaper. I stand up, and I saw the
women following my moves. I walk outside.

>When I was outside, I heard knocking? Where does that come from? I looked in
the direction of the knocking. I saw the two women staring at me... through the
window. Must I go inside? I was thinking for some seconds. No... I think I am
going home. Maybe the situation is a bit too complicated. The 4 women might be
too young (and in fact they are girls), or are there without their boy-friends,
or they are testing me out, which I hate...>

>But my shyness I hate the most, more than the 4 women.


>Hans Kamp

>hmkamp@home.nl
>info@hanskamp.com
>hans@hanskamp.com

>Website/Hejmpagho
>http://www.hanskamp.com