🚀 go-pugleaf

On 19/11/04 5:33 PM, in article ja3rp0hk2dac2i0ta7bsmcm0eakbrktbub@4ax.com,
"Rev Turd Fredericks" <nick_ballsack@forcedshaving.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:25:59 +1100, Ribfeast <goaway@nospam.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>>> Go on, prove that you are more than a troll - give me a reasoned
>>>> argument to support your point of view. Alternatively, keep on with your
>>>> current approach and guarantee a place in the kill file, whence peace
>>>> will be restored! Smile, and the world may just smile with you!
>>> That's fine mr ostrich, killfile me, that's your prerogative. But I
>>> leave you with just a few of the reason's I don't like macs, and why I
>>> avoid them at all costs.
>>> 
>>> 1) Macs are way over priced and underpowered
>> I'd hardly call 64 bit dual G5 processors underpowered.  And the iMacs are
>> not overpriced.  Where else can you get a top-quality 20" LCD and 64 bit
>> computer setup with quality components and stylish design to beat that
>> price?  You could probably build something yourself out of shit parts, but
>> you get the lack of reliability that comes with it.
> 
> That's the key, build yourself but with *good* parts and put a free OS
> on it and you are free from the monopolists.
> 
> If I could say something I like about Apple it is that giant LCD
> screens they sell, very nice, but still very expensive. I could get a
> 22" LCD TV for less, but it probably wouldn't be as good. They are
> selling them where I work for $2300 US (last time I checked)
> 
Building a PC with *good* parts is rarely cheaper than a mac, that is what I
am getting at.  Free OS is the way to go though, get rid of as much MS stuff
as you can.  I do like the Office 2004 package for mac though, it is rather
well featured and runs well here.  And no viruses  ;)  is there many viruses
for Linux?  Haven't heard much about that side of things on Linux.

I do like the Apple LCDs, especially the 20", brilliant color etc.  They are
a tad expensive though, wish they could get the 20 inch to under $2000AU.

>> 
>>> 2) they are costly to fix
>> Buy an extended warranty and a surge protector.  And they rarely break
>> anyway.
> I have yet to see a mac older than 2 years that isn't either broken or
> trashed. Both my regular use PC's are 5 year old PIII's although I do
> upgrade them from time to time (more memory updated vid cards etc.).
> 
The older iMacs were plagued with analog board problems, but they were a
budget machine anyway (with budget reliability), most people keep their
comps for around 3 years, any longer than that and your hard drive and other
hardware is running on borrowed time I reckon.  I've always owned the towers
- G3, G4, and now a G5 tower, and they are rock solid powerhouses, no
compromises in quality.

>> 
>>> 3) both hardware and OS are proprietary which means you must depend on
>>> the notoriously fickle Apple corp for virtually everything from
>>> security patches to processors.
>> Not much different to MS, except MS takes even longer because of all the
>> extra hardware it has to support.  And has all the bloat that comes with
>> supporting all the yum-cha crap that is out there.
> MS releases updates almost weekly (that can be considered either good
> OR bad, but at least the updates are free and reasonably timely). You
> can delete the bloat of uneeded drivers etc. but they are handy if you
> are like me and contantly add or remove stuff from your boxes.

Apple brings them out via Software Update every few weeks, or as often as
necessary also.

>> 
>>> 4) lack of viable software, what software is available is very costly
>>> and unstable. Because there is virtually no competition there is no
>>> motivation for software companies to improve their software when users
>>> experience problems. Instead they release an "upgrade" which they
>>> charge you for but is really just a patch for what they did wrong in
>>> the first place. Ever wonder why photoshop is much more stable on
>>> windows than mac?
>> Haven't had problems with any of the mainstream products that I run on my
>> G5.  I crash maybe once or twice a year, and my uptimes are measured in
>> months, not hours.
> 
> I must admit I don't have much experience with G5's, my work gave up
> on macs a long time ago and there are only a few holdouts . They of
> course also have PC's because the macs always break or don't run much
> other than word processing apps and spreadsheets.
> 
>> 
>>> 5) frequent crashes and lockups, perhaps due to shoddy memory
>>> management and/or poor proprietary software
>> Maybe in MacOS 9.  MacOS X has a full protected memory system.
> 
> OSX seems pretty decent, but the mac users I know don't really know
> how to use it, and run in compatibility mode or whatever it's called
> so they can run the old programs.

Yeah some mac users have a lot of 'classic' apps that they still run, I have
weaned myself off them all now, but not everyone can afford to have the
latest versions of everything all the time I guess.
> 
>> 
>>> 6) poor security: security through obscurity is the worst possible
>>> security model there is. That is Apple's philosophy, says so right on
>>> their web page. It takes them months after publicized security flaws
>>> to fix those flaws. This makes Apple totally unsuitable for a server
>>> platform and just as unsuitable for an "always on" desktop.
> 
>> No ports open to hack by default, and built in firewall, unix security, heck
>> a virus would have to ask for your password before it can infect you.  My
>> computer is fully open to hackers and viruses and I have never actually had
>> one succeed in attacking me.
> 
>  Probably because you are in such a minority (in that you are running
> a mac) that you just haven't been found. That is security by
> obscurity. If you don't have a fully patched system, and that's
> provided Apple has bothered to issue a patch, you are vulnerable to a
> number of nasty exploits.
I have a fully patched system, but I agree with you there, a lot of the
security on macs is through obscurity.  However to do any real damage to a
mac don't you need the admin password?
> 
> No ports open is good, that is one thing I wish windows would do out
> of the box, instead you have to close them manually.
> 
When I turned on the windows file sharing component in MacOS X I noticed a
large amount of upstream traffic after a few days, so I'd say I might have
been compromised that way, turning off windows file sharing fixed it
instantly.  
>> 
>>> 7)  one button mouse. You say there are multibutton mice but I have
>>> yet to see one attached to an actual mac. Aside from the constant
>>> lockups this is the most annoying "feature" that macs have.
>> I agree with you that 1 button mice do suck, the first thing I bought with
>> my G5 was a 3 button Logitech mouse, which worked perfectly without the
>> Logitech drivers, although I did install them for some extra features.  1
>> button mice are more simple for the grannies though ;)
> 
> Heh, and children :-) At least you have the option for multibuttons so
> that is a step in the right direction, how much of the software
> supports multibutton?
Any software that supports contextual menus supports multiple mouse buttons.
To simulate a multiple button mouse just ctrl-click something on a mac.  I
wish Apple would bundle a multibutton scroll mouse.  Keeps the 3rd party
businesses alive I guess.
> 
>> 
>> For the record I use both mac and PC at home, I have a dual 1.8G5, and a
>> 3Ghz Pentium 4 that I built myself out of the best brands, neither have
>> crashed since I bought/built them, XP is the best MS OS so far that I have
>> seen, but it still has a very long way to go compared to MacOS X, especially
>> in ease of networking.  The amount of headaches setting up wireless networks
>> with XP is ridiculous!
>> I like the PC hardware almost as much as I like the mac hardware, but the OS
>> on PCs leaves a lot to be desired.  And Linux is not a viable alternative
>> (yet) for most people despite what many may think.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of XP, but it is vey stable, I rebooted my work
> machine today for the first time since I installed service pack 2  and
> I don't honestly remember when that was. I only rebooted because I
> wanted to try knoppix.
I've had it crash on me a number of times with Doom 3, but ended up being
outdated ATI drivers.  They still need to work on their ease-of-networking
issues though.

>> Anyways that's my $0.02 + GST.
> Canadian eh?

Australian ;)  10% GST beats 22% sales tax on computers anyday :D