🚀 go-pugleaf

On 22/11/04 2:54 PM, in article 9dn2q0lgjng76ua7do3ep490uus9b02d21@4ax.com,
"Rev Turd Fredericks" <nick_ballsack@forcedshaving.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:12:20 +1100, Ribfeast <goaway@nospam.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 19/11/04 5:33 PM, in article ja3rp0hk2dac2i0ta7bsmcm0eakbrktbub@4ax.com,
>> "Rev Turd Fredericks" <nick_ballsack@forcedshaving.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:25:59 +1100, Ribfeast <goaway@nospam.com>
>>> wrote:
> SNIP>>>>>>>>>>
>>> 
>>> That's the key, build yourself but with *good* parts and put a free OS
>>> on it and you are free from the monopolists.
>>> 
>>> If I could say something I like about Apple it is that giant LCD
>>> screens they sell, very nice, but still very expensive. I could get a
>>> 22" LCD TV for less, but it probably wouldn't be as good. They are
>>> selling them where I work for $2300 US (last time I checked)
>>> 
>> Building a PC with *good* parts is rarely cheaper than a mac, that is what I
>> am getting at.  Free OS is the way to go though, get rid of as much MS stuff
>> as you can.  I do like the Office 2004 package for mac though, it is rather
>> well featured and runs well here.  And no viruses  ;)  is there many viruses
>> for Linux?  Haven't heard much about that side of things on Linux.
> 
> Almost 5 years ago now, I built a dual PIII machine with the "latest
> and greatest" parts available my total cost for it was $1300, a
> comaprable Mac was well over $5000. The gap is closing but PC's are
> still at least 50% cheaper. If you just want an "entry level PC" and
> want to run lindows on it, it will set you back only $199 USD.
>> 

PCs are still cheaper at this stage, but yes the gap is closing.  I'd rather
pay a bit more for an OS that is better than XP, with a better-styled
machine ;)  
My PC was $1500AU, hand built by myself 6 months ago, with combo drive,
Radeon 9600XT 256MB video, 120GB SATA, Antec 1080AMG case & Antec 480W PSU,
Asus wireless motherboard, 3GHz P4, 1GB RAM, gigabit ethernet etc.  Not as
quick as my G5 but still good for games which is what I bought it for.

Hard to believe your dual P3 was $1300, but that is probably US dollars and
our exchange rate sucked back then.

>> I do like the Apple LCDs, especially the 20", brilliant color etc.  They are
>> a tad expensive though, wish they could get the 20 inch to under $2000AU.
> 
> I was in awe of the one in our university bookstore. Unfortunately,
> they are still just a bit out of range of what I am willing to pay.
>> 
> SNIP>>>>
>>> 
>> The older iMacs were plagued with analog board problems, but they were a
>> budget machine anyway (with budget reliability), most people keep their
>> comps for around 3 years, any longer than that and your hard drive and other
>> hardware is running on borrowed time I reckon.  I've always owned the towers
>> - G3, G4, and now a G5 tower, and they are rock solid powerhouses, no
>> compromises in quality.
>> 
> I guess that must be why all I see are broken ones. The G5's are
> attractive, but I still don't think that justifies the
> price/performance you get for the money.
Put it this way - decent 20" LCD is around $2000-2500AU (use oanda.com to
convert the $ rates), a G5 iMac with 64 bit CPU with DVD burner, 256MB DDR
RAM, 160GB HDD SATA, GeForce FX5200, ethernet, modem, and the same 20" LCD
is $3199 AU all up.  Good value if you ask me.

>>>> 
> SNIP>>>>>
>> 
>> Apple brings them out via Software Update every few weeks, or as often as
>> necessary also.
>> 
> Except for the security issues that's OK.
> SNIP>>>>
>>> OSX seems pretty decent, but the mac users I know don't really know
>>> how to use it, and run in compatibility mode or whatever it's called
>>> so they can run the old programs.
>> 
>> Yeah some mac users have a lot of 'classic' apps that they still run, I have
>> weaned myself off them all now, but not everyone can afford to have the
>> latest versions of everything all the time I guess.
> 
> They can if they run linux :-) I'm lucky, work pays for all my
> (windows) software.
>>> 
>>>> 
> SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> 
>>>  Probably because you are in such a minority (in that you are running
>>> a mac) that you just haven't been found. That is security by
>>> obscurity. If you don't have a fully patched system, and that's
>>> provided Apple has bothered to issue a patch, you are vulnerable to a
>>> number of nasty exploits.
>> I have a fully patched system, but I agree with you there, a lot of the
>> security on macs is through obscurity.  However to do any real damage to a
>> mac don't you need the admin password?
> 
> Except that the same people that *wouldn't* regularly patch their
> systems are also the people that use weak passwords. I'm not an expert
> on mac security, because I don't really care that much, but some of
> the mac security holes and the failure to patch them quickly have made
> my jaw drop. It starts with somebody reporting a vulnerability to
> Apple, Apple denying it's a problem and then 6 to 8 months later
> releasing a patch for a problem that "didn't exist". (search on
> www.cotse.com for some stories about this, I'm not sure how long they
> keep the news items, but you should at least be able to find the
> original vulnerabilities). I just don't like Apple's attitude towards
> security, I don't like MS's much either.

Haven't heard too much about Apple's head-in-the-sand approach to security,
if it is true then I am not impressed.  I am yet to hear of anyone actually
being exploited by any of these security holes though.

> 
>>> 
>>> No ports open is good, that is one thing I wish windows would do out
>>> of the box, instead you have to close them manually.
>>> 
>> When I turned on the windows file sharing component in MacOS X I noticed a
>> large amount of upstream traffic after a few days, so I'd say I might have
>> been compromised that way, turning off windows file sharing fixed it
>> instantly.  
> Windows file sharing is an accident waiting to happen. If I have to
> share files I set up an ftp server and hand out accounts on a need to
> know basis. 

Yeah I do the same - FTP or HTTP, sometimes even Hotline or KDX.
> 
> SNIP>>>>>>>>>
>>> 
>>> Heh, and children :-) At least you have the option for multibuttons so
>>> that is a step in the right direction, how much of the software
>>> supports multibutton?
>> Any software that supports contextual menus supports multiple mouse buttons.
>> To simulate a multiple button mouse just ctrl-click something on a mac.  I
>> wish Apple would bundle a multibutton scroll mouse.  Keeps the 3rd party
>> businesses alive I guess.
> Can you use just any old mouse?

Correct.  Even the $10 yum-cha ones, as long as they are USB or bluetooth.

>>> 
> SNIP>>>>>>>>
>>> 
>>> I'm not a big fan of XP, but it is vey stable, I rebooted my work
>>> machine today for the first time since I installed service pack 2  and
>>> I don't honestly remember when that was. I only rebooted because I
>>> wanted to try knoppix.
>> I've had it crash on me a number of times with Doom 3, but ended up being
>> outdated ATI drivers.  They still need to work on their ease-of-networking
>> issues though.
> 
> Mac or XP? ATI makes some decent products but they rush them to market
> with crappy drivers, it's too bad.


XP...I have a 9600XT in my PC and my G5.

>> 
>>>> Anyways that's my $0.02 + GST.
>>> Canadian eh?
>> 
>> Australian ;)  10% GST beats 22% sales tax on computers anyday :D
> 
> Oh, I didn't realize Ozzies used the GST method of taxation, and I
> should know because my brother lives there.