🚀 go-pugleaf

MacUser has just published an article for your very needs: Goto:

http://www.zdnet.com/macuser/mu_0397/feature/whichmac/

BTW, looks like I would recomend the Power Computing PowerBase 180 for
your needs. 

Brian Halbrook

Ronald E Engel (rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu) wrote:
(post deleted)

	Out of the two computers which were suggested, I would strongly 
point you in the direction of the PowerMacintosh 7500.  Although probably 
slower MHz wise, the 7500's graphics capabilites blow the Performas out 
of the water.  Peforma video performance has always been known to be 
deliberatly slower due to price concerns.  However, in terms of graphcis 
capability, the 7500 may actualy be too much... I say that because it 
comes standard with S-Video In, allowing you to record video from any 
video device.  If you're not going to be using it, I would suggest the 
PowerMac 7200 or the upcoming PowerMac 7300.  
	I've owned a 7500/100 for over a year now and I'm more than 
impressed with it.  Although it's not the fastest Mac, it's got to be the 
most well designed.  It is processor upgradable ($99 to upgrade to a 
120MHz 604), and PCI card and RAM options are almost unlimited!  It's a 
great machine.

Hope that helps,

-Kevin Stone
 Stone Entertainment
 stone@enetis.net
 www.enetis.net/~stone 

YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
computer.
__________________________
> Howdy.
> 
> I�m trying to determine which Mac machine will best serve my needs and
> have gotten all sorts of contradictory ideas from the dealers around here,
> so...
> 
> The applications I am most interested in running (that don�t work so well
> or at all on my LC-II):
> Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
> Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
> 
> Ny primary uses for this machine will be desktop publishing and graphic
> design, including web page design (for my work) and surfing the net.
> 
> The two dealers I talked to recommended:
> Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100
> (I�m perfectly willing to buy a machine other than these two, but these
> were the two that were suggested.)
> 
> At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
> better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
> it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
> completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.
> 
> I would be grateful for any suggestions.
> E-mail rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron

Hey chickenshit, nice anonymous post...typical brave PC fuck head...learn
english...if you can't speak it...you know the rest...or maybe you don't...

In article <32F80160.3253@available.net>, unknown wrote:

> YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> computer.
> __________________________
> > Howdy.
> > 
> > I�m trying to determine which Mac machine will best serve my needs and
> > have gotten all sorts of contradictory ideas from the dealers around here,
> > so...
> > 
> > The applications I am most interested in running (that don�t work so well
> > or at all on my LC-II):
> > Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
> > Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
> > 
> > Ny primary uses for this machine will be desktop publishing and graphic
> > design, including web page design (for my work) and surfing the net.
> > 
> > The two dealers I talked to recommended:
> > Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100
> > (I�m perfectly willing to buy a machine other than these two, but these
> > were the two that were suggested.)
> > 
> > At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
> > better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
> > it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
> > completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.
> > 
> > I would be grateful for any suggestions.
> > E-mail rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Ron

> The applications I am most interested in running (that don�t work so well
> or at all on my LC-II):
> Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
> Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
> 
> Ny primary uses for this machine will be desktop publishing and graphic
> design, including web page design (for my work) and surfing the net.
> 
> The two dealers I talked to recommended:
> Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100 
> (I�m perfectly willing to buy a machine other than these two, but these
> were the two that were suggested.)
> 
> At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
> better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
> it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
> completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.

you would more then likely have ot buy a video card for the 6400 seeing as
it only has 1 meg of non-upgradable VRAM. (the 7500 has 2 megs standard
and is upgradable to 4). I myself have a 7600/120 (a faster version of the
7500) that I use for very similar tasks. I would however recommend you get
a 7600/120 or better - the faster processor will pay off. If however you
prefer the performa, understand also that it uses a slower harddrive
technology, you can't upgrade the CPU, and over all is a lesser quality
machine.

a 7600/120 can be had for around $1800 or less depending on where you buy
from (the comp.sys.mac.wanted group is a good resource, as is the back of
Macworld). I'd strongly recommend this system over any performa.

In article <32F80160.3253@available.net>, unknown wrote:

>YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?

Someone with a grasp of neither language nor logic calling someone a
"stupid Mac head" while hiding behind a falsified user ID has a lot of
nerve.

--
Jerry Kindall <kindall@manual.com>
Manual Labor  <http://www.manual.com/>
Technical Writing; Internet & WWW Consulting

Author of the Web Motion Encyclopedia
The comprehensive animation and video reference for Web designers
Coming Summer '97 from Waite Group Press

I don't keep enough track of who writes what here, and there's often
too much to read to catch all the well-thought-out stuff anyway, but
kudos to Andy for making USENET a wonderful place.  Very knowledgeable
and concise writing here, at least to my eye.

I've added a couple comments that don't compare, but might prove useful.

In article <atticus-ya023580000502970230350001@news.mindspring.com> atticus@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) writes:
>In article <rengel-0402972213340001@dialup132.tcs.tulane.edu>,
>rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Ronald E Engel) wrote:
>  :At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
>  :better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
>  :it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
>  :completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.

Check out the March issue of MacUser if you're open to going with a
clone.  I was thinking about going with the 6400 until noticing the
PowerBase240.  

BTW, any comments on that tradeoff?  (Both are 603e-based.)

>I don't recommend Performas that often, but I think the CompUSA guy was
>giving you bad advice. The 7500/100, first of all, has been discontinued
>for several months, replaced by the 7600/120 and 7600/132. The sales guy
>has an incentive to push old inventory, which I suspect he was doing. The
>7500/100 should be a clearance deal, and shouldn't cost $500 more than the
>6400.

On the other hand, didn't Apple just cut prices?  And at least the
6400 was one of the models that got a price cut, if I remember
correctly.  7500/100 may have, too, of course.

The article mentioned above doesn't take into account the new prices,
so you'll have to adjust their ratings for the cuts.  And of course it
doesn't compare the 7500, since it's a little older.

>- More RAM upgradability. The 7500 has 8 DIMM slots and 16Mb on the
>  motherboard, for a total of 528MB max RAM. the 640 has 8 on the
>  motherboard and 2 slots, for a maximum of 136MB.

And you're more likely after one or two memory upgrades not to have to
trash the last upgrade just to get more.  A GREAT reason in my opinion
for many slots, that I wouldn't have thought of without this great post.


-- 
Chris
ruebeck@jhu.edu

anonymous wrote:
> YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> computer.

OK, enough of this CRAP about Mac versus PC!!!!!!!!!!  Listen, I use
both and guess what, I LIKE BOTH EQUALLY WELL!  They both have their
advantages and disadvantages, and hey, even if one really were better
than the other, WHO THE DEVIL CARES?  I've been lurking in this
newsgroup (comp.sys.mac.misc) for some time now, and I have come to
appreciate the value of both systems.  This poor fellow is not the one
who should get a life, it is you.  Why are you so worked up about it? 
It is petty to quibble over the differences between the two systems. 
The only reason I bothered to dignify your post with a reply is that
people like you have DRIVEN ME TO INSANITY!  I wish you the best of luck
in overcoming your shortsightedness.  Godspeed.

Stuart

PS.  Sorry for reply-spamming these newsgroups!

In article <rengel-0402972213340001@dialup132.tcs.tulane.edu>,
rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Ronald E Engel) wrote:

  :Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
  :Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill

  :Ny primary uses for this machine will be desktop publishing and graphic
  :design, including web page design (for my work) and surfing the net.

  :At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
  :better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
  :it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
  :completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.

This is always a tough question. It's like asking "which is better, a Geo
Metro or a Chevy Suburban?" It always depends on individual needs. 

I don't recommend Performas that often, but I think the CompUSA guy was
giving you bad advice. The 7500/100, first of all, has been discontinued
for several months, replaced by the 7600/120 and 7600/132. The sales guy
has an incentive to push old inventory, which I suspect he was doing. The
7500/100 should be a clearance deal, and shouldn't cost $500 more than the
6400.

I'd probably go with the 7500, because it has several advantages which it
doesn't sound like you'll use. Off the top of my head, the 7500's
advantages (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong):

- More slots. The 7500 has 3 PCI slots, vs. 2 for the 6400.

- More RAM upgradability. The 7500 has 8 DIMM slots and 16Mb on the
  motherboard, for a total of 528MB max RAM. the 640 has 8 on the
  motherboard and 2 slots, for a maximum of 136MB.

- Video in. Video input is built onto the 7500 motherboard, and an 
  added-cost option for the 6400.

- Ethernet. Built into the 7500's motherboard, and requires an additional-cost
  card for the 6400. If you add an Ethernet card on the 6400, you won't be
  able to use the internal modem that comes with the machine.

- SCSI. The 7500 has dual fast SCSI buses, which is important if you plan to
  run a high-end disk array. 

- Upgradability. The 7500 has more DIMM slots for added RAM, and an upgradable 
  processor. 

- More robust video. The 7500's motherboard video goes up to 4MB VRAM, which
  will drive a 21" monitor at millions of colors. The 6400 only has 1MB of
  VRAM, and will only drive a 15" monitor at thousands of colors, or a 17"
  at 256. If you want to run Photoshop on a big monitor, you'll have to
  buy a video card for the 6400 -- another added cost that makes the 7500
  more attractive.

Even though the 6400 has twice the clock speed, it's more of a wash than it
would seem. The 603e is a less powerful chip than the 601 (defying all
product-naming logic), but has much, much lower power demands and heat than
the 601. That's why it's used in PowerBooks. It's also much, much cheaper
to make, which is why it's used in Performas.

The 6400, by virtue of more limited upgrade options, is likely to become
obsolete sooner. If the 7500 sounds more attractive, check reputable
mail-order dealers for a clearance price, or take a look at the 7200 (just
like the 7500, but a little faster, with one SCSI bus and no video in) or
7600 (which is just like the 7500, only substantially faster -- it has a
PPC 604 processor).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
   "We were once so close to heaven, Peter came out and gave us medals 
   declaring us the nicest of the damned."      --They Might Be Giants
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Walton * atticus@mindspring.com * http://www.mindspring.com/~atticus

Ronald E Engel wrote:
> I�m trying to determine which Mac machine will best serve my needs and
> 
> The applications I am most interested in running (that don�t work so > Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
> Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
> 
> The two dealers I talked to recommended:
> Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100
> (I�m perfectly willing to buy a machine other than these two, but 

The 7500 does have better graphics than the 6400, but the processor is
much slower.

There is another option though:  for our lab I managed to convince my
advisor to get a 7600/132.  At that point in time it was about $100 more
than the 6400/180; Apple just dropped the list price on the 7600 to
under $2000.  The 7600 has decent built in video (and you can upgrade
the 2 MB video RAM to 4 MB fairly cheaply).  The hard drive, while
smaller, is a 1.2 gig fast-SCSI drive and quite a bit faster than the 2
gig drive on the 6400.  The 604 chip toasts the 601/603 in the other
computers, and runs at 3x instead of 4x the motherboard speed (i.e. is
more efficient).  I would strongly recommend at least doubling the
physical RAM the box comes with the 32 megs or more (64+ if you can
afford it), but that goes for any box that you'd run the applications
you mention on.

Of course at this point you may want to consider waiting 2-3 weeks until
Apple announces their new product line...you could find something better
and the prices on the old models are nearly guaranteed to fall even
farther.

Nathan Hughes wrote:

> 
> Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
> anything for them.

Best Buy has them for that price IN STOCK.

> Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
> mail.

Is 10:30 AM tomorrow morning not fast enough for you?

> Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8 (another
> 12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).

I would look, but my eyes are still full of tears from laughing at how
long Intel users waited for a GUI.

> Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
> of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

Trolling your Gates-worshipping attitude in Mac forums doesn't make all
that much sense either.

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
|     Milt Hathaway      |       KOR - Tenchi Muyo! - Sailormoon       |
| kyosuke@basinlink.com  |   Oldfield - Miyazaki - Zappa - Takahashi   |
|     Midland, Texas     |---------------------------------------------|
| 89 Wineberry GoldWing  |      This message is ROT-52 encrypted       |
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

dke wrote:
> 
> In article <ezk38-0602970123190001@206.239.64.23>, ezk38@jnpcs.com (Don)
> wrote:
> 
> > All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip.
> > Stick to a 601 or 604.
> 
> Why? Thats like saying avoid the pentiums and only go with PPro's. For most
> users it wont matter....
> 
> In fact I have a 150mhz 604... my next machine will probably be a 300mhz
> 603e.
> 
> ---
> David K. Every ~ dke@adnc.com
> MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way!
> http://www.adnc.com/web/dke/
I totally agree.  Bad experiences with that 603 chip cannot be expressed
hard enough.  First was the 5300s(2) then the performas(3).  All these
machines have been sold and/or returned.

anonymous wrote:
> 
> YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> computer.
> __________________________

Would you like to tell me how buying a PC will help anybody "keep 
(their) investments in computer"? Unless a PC can run the tens of
thousands of dollars worth of Mac software and hardware that many 
of us own (I realize that you PC users never buy software what with
WAREZ and all, but we Mac types BUY our software), changing to 
Wintel junk isn't going to save our investment in anything. So
buzz off!

George Graves

In article <atticus-ya023580000502970230350001@news.mindspring.com>,
atticus@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:

[Snip]

> I'd probably go with the 7500, because it has several advantages which it
> doesn't sound like you'll use. Off the top of my head, the 7500's
> advantages (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong):

Good guess :)
> 
> - More RAM upgradability. The 7500 has 8 DIMM slots and 16Mb on the
>   motherboard, for a total of 528MB max RAM. the 640 has 8 on the
>   motherboard and 2 slots, for a maximum of 136MB.

The 7500 doesn't have _any_ RAM on the motherboard - everything is
DIMMs.

> - SCSI. The 7500 has dual fast SCSI buses, which is important if you plan to
>   run a high-end disk array. 

I think only the internal bus is fast - and it comes with a slow drive
(which you could,
of course, replace).

> - More robust video. The 7500's motherboard video goes up to 4MB VRAM, which
>   will drive a 21" monitor at millions of colors. The 6400 only has 1MB of
>   VRAM, and will only drive a 15" monitor at thousands of colors, or a 17"
>   at 256. If you want to run Photoshop on a big monitor, you'll have to
>   buy a video card for the 6400 -- another added cost that makes the 7500
>   more attractive.

Really??  Wow, that's kind of lame.

> Even though the 6400 has twice the clock speed, it's more of a wash than it
> would seem. The 603e is a less powerful chip than the 601 (defying all
> product-naming logic), but has much, much lower power demands and heat than
> the 601. That's why it's used in PowerBooks. It's also much, much cheaper
> to make, which is why it's used in Performas.

The _603_ is a less powerful chip than the 601, but the 603e is about the same
as a 601 (or so I understand).

> The 6400, by virtue of more limited upgrade options, is likely to become
> obsolete sooner. If the 7500 sounds more attractive, check reputable
> mail-order dealers for a clearance price, or take a look at the 7200 (just
> like the 7500, but a little faster, with one SCSI bus and no video in) or
> 7600 (which is just like the 7500, only substantially faster -- it has a
> PPC 604 processor).

Yes, and you can plug in your own 604 into the 7500 for a relatively small
amonut of money.

-JM

OOH, Mr Anonymous, what a stinging indictment.
-- 
Turn on an Apple and close the Gates

In article <lewisda-ya023580000602970135450001@news.dal.ca>,
lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote:


> 
> There have been numerous mac bashing posts lately from someone at the
> pseudo "not.available.net" domain. All of them have been completely
> unprovoked attacks on people asking simple questions. This is evidently
> some stressed out PC user with too much time on his or her hands. My
> question is... what is your problem whoever you are? What so you gain by
> going into mac newsgroups and insulting people at random for no reason
> whatsoever?
> 
David, take it easy, since the first Mac, there have been PC users who
were unable to admit that they are using inferior technology.
I read somwhere :
"cocroaches are far more numerous than people. Sheer numbers do no
necessarilly suggest a higher life form"

:-)

Regards
Brian

Sorin (sorin@gte.net) wrote:

: a 7600/120 can be had for around $1800 or less depending on where you buy
: from (the comp.sys.mac.wanted group is a good resource, as is the back of
: Macworld). I'd strongly recommend this system over any performa.

	7600/132s are that much new now.  Also, you should be able to 
pick up a 7500/100 and upgrade it to 7600/120 performance for only $99.

--

------------------------------------------------------------------

John Christie

"You aren't free because you CAN choose - only if you DO choose."

"All you are is the decisions you make.  If you let circumstances make 
them for you then what you are becomes very easy to estimate."

pvince@ix.netcom.com (Powerful Pierre) wrote:

> Hey chickenshit, nice anonymous post...typical brave PC fuck head...learn
> english...if you can't speak it...you know the rest...or maybe you don't...
> 
> In article <32F80160.3253@available.net>, unknown wrote:
> 
> > YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> > hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> > are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> > LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> > low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> > computer.

There have been numerous mac bashing posts lately from someone at the
pseudo "not.available.net" domain. All of them have been completely
unprovoked attacks on people asking simple questions. This is evidently
some stressed out PC user with too much time on his or her hands. My
question is... what is your problem whoever you are? What so you gain by
going into mac newsgroups and insulting people at random for no reason
whatsoever?

-- 
________________
David Lewis
lewisda@tuns.ca
www.tuns.ca/~lewisda

All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip. 
Stick to a 601 or 604.

Path:
news.accessus.net!news-chi-8.sprintlink.net!ais.net!news.stealth.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!math.ohio-state.edu!jussieu.fr!rain.fr!globalip.ch!imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.net!news1.bellglobal.com!ipoline.com!usenet
From: anonymous <not@available.net>
Newsgroups:
alt.sys.mac.newuser-help,biz.marketplace.computers.mac,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.apps,comp.sys.mac.comm,comp.sys.mac.graphics,comp.sys.mac.hardware.misc,comp.sys.mac.misc
Subject: Re: Stupid MAC HEAD exposed! (HELP! WHAT SHOULD I BUY?)
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:41:20 -0500
Organization: Galatic Connetion
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <32F80160.3253@available.net>
References: <rengel-0402972213340001@dialup132.tcs.tulane.edu>
Reply-To: unknown
NNTP-Posting-Host: tc2m15s.ipoline.com
                           ^^^^^^^^^^^ 

In article <32F80160.3253@available.net>, unknown wrote:

> YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> computer.


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John Christie <jc@or.psychology.dal.ca> wrote in article
<5dbpeu$da5@News.Dal.Ca>...
> Sorin (sorin@gte.net) wrote:
> 
> : a 7600/120 can be had for around $1800 or less depending on where you
buy
> : from (the comp.sys.mac.wanted group is a good resource, as is the back
of
> : Macworld). I'd strongly recommend this system over any performa.
> 
> 	7600/132s are that much new now.  Also, you should be able to 
> pick up a 7500/100 and upgrade it to 7600/120 performance for only $99.
> 


Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
mail.  Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8 (another
12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).

Nate

-- 
Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

In article <ezk38-0602970123190001@206.239.64.23>, ezk38@jnpcs.com (Don)
wrote:

> All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip. 
> Stick to a 601 or 604.

Why? Thats like saying avoid the pentiums and only go with PPro's. For most
users it wont matter....

In fact I have a 150mhz 604... my next machine will probably be a 300mhz
603e. 

---
David K. Every ~ dke@adnc.com
MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way!
http://www.adnc.com/web/dke/

In article <dke-0602970654060001@adnline1366.adnc.com>, "dke"
<dke@adnc.com> wrote:

>In article <ezk38-0602970123190001@206.239.64.23>, ezk38@jnpcs.com (Don)
>wrote:
>
>> All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip. 
>> Stick to a 601 or 604.
>
>Why? Thats like saying avoid the pentiums and only go with PPro's. For most
>users it wont matter....
>
>In fact I have a 150mhz 604... my next machine will probably be a 300mhz
>603e. 

Perhaps people still confuse the original 603's with the 603e's... the e's
are actually a bit faster than a 601 at the same clock speed.  Of course,
if _I_ had the money, I'd buy a 604e...

cheers,
Jeremy

-- 
--
Do not send commercial email to this address, if I receive commercial email here, I will not purchase anything advertised. However, If you do want to pay me, then that will be all right, please negotiate before sending.
My email address: jeremy-brown@uiowa.edu

This is the same kind of person that goes into the Ford newsgroup and
says that Chevy's are better. Their only aim is to stir up the natives.
As long as people reply to this sort of drivel, the PC-dork will
probably keep it up.

If you want a cheap computer, buy a PC. If you want to use your
computer, get a Mac.

----------------------------------

Patrick Besong, Graphic Designer
University Photo/Graphics
15 Mitchell Bldg.
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802
Phone: 814-863-0755
pzb4@cde.psu.edu

anonymous wrote:
> 
> YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
> hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
> are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
> LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
> low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
> computer.


This is the same kind of person that goes into the Ford newsgroup and
says that Chevy's are better. Their only aim is to stir up the natives.
As long as people reply to this sort of drivel, the PC-dork will
probably keep it up.

My only comment is that if you want a cheap computer, buy a PC. If you
want to use your computer, get a Mac.

--------------------------------------- 

Patrick Besong, Graphic Designer
University Photo/Graphics
15 Mitchell Bldg.
The Pennsylvania State University
University Park, PA 16802
Phone: 814-863-0755
pzb4@cde.psu.edu

In article <dke-0602970654060001@adnline1366.adnc.com>, "dke" <dke@adnc.com>
wrote:

>In article <ezk38-0602970123190001@206.239.64.23>, ezk38@jnpcs.com (Don)
>wrote:
>
>> All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip. 
>> Stick to a 601 or 604.
>
>Why? Thats like saying avoid the pentiums and only go with PPro's. For most
>users it wont matter....
>
>In fact I have a 150mhz 604... my next machine will probably be a 300mhz
>603e. 

Amen.  And my 75mhz 603 runs every app I want, from web apps to Marathon
Infinity just fine thank you.  If mine can run fine, so could a 200mhz 603e.
 So all you spoiled 604 users should just shut up and be thankful us low-end
users exist.  Without us, the Mac would be no different than a workstation. 
Expensive, not a lot of software because the hardware is expensive, not in
many homes because the hardware is expensive, not many advances because
there's no money for developement becasuse the hardware is expensive, etc.
etc. etc.

Sure, you can afford a 604, but that's partly because the PPC market is
backed up by it's low-end cost friendly chips most users have in the
computer sitting in their den.  We keep the cash flowing in the chip maker's
pockets just like you do.  Maybe that's why they still write software which
will run on my slow computer.


---
Jon B.
bonner@rrnet.com
http://rrnet.com/~bonner
http://space.acm.ndsu.nodak.edu/NDSU_Chi_Alpha

In article <01bc140c$1da5cee0$31e965ce@default>, "Nathan Hughes"
<nhughes@idir.net> wrote:

<snip>

> 
> Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
> anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
> mail.  Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8 (another
> 12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).

Waiting like Win 3.1 users waited for Windows 93,  no 94,  no 95!  And
guess what now,  we're not waiting for something better than Windows 95, 
we're waiting for something *else* better than Windows 95!

Also,  check your history.  DOS is a truncated hybrid of CP/M & UNIX with
maybe 5% the functionality of either.  Also the "NT" in Windows NT stands
for the "new technology" that they're *copying* from the 25-year-old UNIX
standard.

UNIX isn't outdated by Windows,  more like the other way around!  Leave it
to M$ to fewl everyone into thinking *they* are the "cutting edge" when
all they are doing is XEROXing a 25-year-old "oudated" standard and then
selling it under Winblows while these poor duped customers could get more
functionality for *free* in the form of Linux!
 
> Nate
> 
> -- 
> Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
> of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

And "50 thousand Frenchmen can't be wrong."

Yadda yadda yadda.

-- 
Edward

Ronald E Engel wrote:
> 
> Howdy.
> 
> I1m trying to determine which Mac machine will best serve my needs and
> have gotten all sorts of contradictory ideas from the dealers around here,
> so...
> 
> The applications I am most interested in running (that don1t work so well
> or at all on my LC-II):
> Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
> Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
> 
> Ny primary uses for this machine will be desktop publishing and graphic
> design, including web page design (for my work) and surfing the net.
> 
> The two dealers I talked to recommended:
> Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100
> (I1m perfectly willing to buy a machine other than these two, but these
> were the two that were suggested.)
> 
> At CompUSA, the worker swore to me that the PowerMac 7500/100 was much
> better (worth the extra $500) than the Performa 6400 even though on paper
> it looked worse. A bystander then walked by and said that that was
> completely wrong, that the 6400 would be better.
> 
> I would be grateful for any suggestions.
> E-mail rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ron
I just bought 3 of the refurbished Performa 6300's that the User Group
Store (htto://www.ugstore.com) or 800-350-4842 is selling. They come
with a 603e @100 mh processor, a 1.2.gig HD, a 4x CD rom, Global Village
internal 28.8 modem and some software. I added 32 megs to bring it ip to
48 and it works fine using the software you mentioned. The current price
is $959. plus $26 for quick shipping. All the units I got work very well
and I believe the price is good.
FWIW Joe flynn

Nathan Hughes wrote:
 
> Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
> anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
> Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8 (another
> 12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).

Mail order is great.  PC users are all compulsive shoppers.  I can wait
two-three days for software.  There is never a critical reason for me to
have it ASAP.  Take some Prozac.

> Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
> of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

Give me a break.  And get off our news group loser.  Go hang out with
your chump PC friends who are just getting used to the idea of a GUI and
integrated CD-ROM.

-- 
Jared Miles
Equipment Technician
Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector
Microprocessors and Memories Technolgy Group

(Microsoft patiently waits for Apple to introduce the next exciting
technology into the home computing market so that they can pounce on it,
again)

Don wrote:
> 
> All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip.
> Stick to a 601 or 604.

agreed.

dke wrote:
> 
> In article <ezk38-0602970123190001@206.239.64.23>, ezk38@jnpcs.com (Don)
> wrote:
> 
> > All I can say is to stay away from any flavor of 603 chip.
> > Stick to a 601 or 604.
> 
> Why? Thats like saying avoid the pentiums and only go with PPro's. For most
> users it wont matter....
> 
> In fact I have a 150mhz 604... my next machine will probably be a 300mhz
> 603e.
> 
> ---
> David K. Every ~ dke@adnc.com
> MacKiDo Warrior - The Power of the Macintosh Way!
> http://www.adnc.com/web/dke/

If you are going to unload your 150Mhz 604 that quickly while there are
still 300Mhz 603e's out there, you have a little too much money on your
hands.

In article <rengel-0402972213340001@dialup132.tcs.tulane.edu> Ronald E
Engel, rengel@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu writes:
>The applications I am most interested in running...
>Pagemaker            Photoshop   Freehand
>Netscape Gold        Quark       Pagemill
[snip]
>The two dealers I talked to recommended:
>Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100...

In your case, you want the machine with the most ram;) Seriously, I
wouldn't take home a PPC Mac without AT LEAST 32MB of ram.

clint

> >Performa 6400 and the PowerMac 7500/100...
> 
> In your case, you want the machine with the most ram;) Seriously, I
> wouldn't take home a PPC Mac without AT LEAST 32MB of ram.
> 


I disagree with the literal interpretation of this point.  Take it home,
THEN buy the RAM.  The Chip Merchant in San Diego, or RamJet will save you
a good chunk of change on large amounts of RAM.  If you are uncomfortable
doing the installation yourself (watch that static electricity! ), then
perhaps your tech support office will do it for free.  You're at Tulane,
right?  They should help you out.

But, yes, you should buy lots of RAM.  Get at least 32MB total, and more
if you can afford it.

FWIW, I know some people who purchased a 6400/180 (on my advice) for their
first computer.  They are very, very happy with it.  However, you sound as
if you don't need any of the user-friendly "this is a mouse - can you say
mouse?" stuff that ships on the Performa.  OTOH, you can always yank that
introductory software off the HD.  There's no hardware penalty for its
presence.

The main hardware issues with the P6400 are the damn geopod modem, which
can always be upgraded, and the limit of 2 PCI slots, which cannot.  You
might want to ask yourself if graphics cards and their brethren will be
important to you down the road.  It sounds like they might.

-Mark

========================================================
For information about electronic data interchange
(EDI) on operating systems other than Microsoft's
proprietary ones:
    http://www.capital.net/users/rentals/EDI_page.htm
========================================================

Dave L. wrote:

> There have been numerous mac bashing posts lately from someone at the
> pseudo "not.available.net" domain. All of them have been completely
> unprovoked attacks on people asking simple questions. This is evidently
> some stressed out PC user with too much time on his or her hands. My
> question is... what is your problem whoever you are? What so you gain by
> going into mac newsgroups and insulting people at random for no reason
> whatsoever?

Once while looking for new newsgroups to read, I stumbled across one
called "alt.flame.??" and having a quick peruse, I discovered it was a
lot of people just abusing each other.  One would send a post intending
to provoke, and everyone would reply with foul language.  Unbelievable. 
Perhaps this "anonymous" persons subscribes to a flame newsgroup and was
simply out cruising, looking for a thrill.

Wendy.

Nathan Hughes <nhughes@idir.net> wrote:

> Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
> anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
> mail.  Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8 (another
> 12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).

Pretty mouthy now that you've done your three or four year wait for
Windows 95, aren't you! Overnight mail order (wow, one whole day) is
usually cheaper than going to the mall or a computer superstore anyway.

Butch Hauke
------------------------------------------
Space Systems Maintenance - U.S. Air Force
In space, no one can hear you whine!

In article
<josh_miller-0602971552220001@cust43.max5.phoenix.az.ms.uu.net>,
josh_miller@earthlink.net.no.spam (Josh Miller) wrote:

>In article <atticus-ya023580000502970230350001@news.mindspring.com>,
>atticus@mindspring.com (Andy Walton) wrote:
>
>> - SCSI. The 7500 has dual fast SCSI buses, which is important if you plan to
>>   run a high-end disk array. 
>
>I think only the internal bus is fast - and it comes with a slow drive
>(which you could,
>of course, replace).

Correct. Internal is 10MB/s Fast SCSI, external is 5MB/s SCSI. The drive's
not too shabby, unless you're doing AV stuff.

>> - More robust video. The 7500's motherboard video goes up to 4MB VRAM, which
>>   will drive a 21" monitor at millions of colors. The 6400 only has 1MB of
>>   VRAM, and will only drive a 15" monitor at thousands of colors, or a 17"
>>   at 256. If you want to run Photoshop on a big monitor, you'll have to
>>   buy a video card for the 6400 -- another added cost that makes the 7500
>>   more attractive.
>
>Really??  Wow, that's kind of lame.

Gotta love my 7500! But a PCI video card can be had fairly cheaply, and
will still burn the 7500's built-in video.

>The _603_ is a less powerful chip than the 601, but the 603e is about the same
>as a 601 (or so I understand).

Right. The 6400 is somewhat faster than the 7500, but there are a lot of
factors. The 6400's bus speed is 40MHz, while the 7500 can do 50. And of
course, the main selling point IMO for the 7500 is that it has enormous
_potential_. More and bigger slots, internal Fast SCSI, and of course, the
CPU daughtercard. The 6400 is cool, but it isn't going anywhere.

john

--- - ------- -------
Music is a higher revelation than philosophy. - Beethoven

jak@asu.edu
http://www.public.asu.edu/~jkestner/

In article <32FA0B4B.4CDA@psu.edu>, pzb4@psu.edu wrote:

> This is the same kind of person that goes into the Ford newsgroup and
> says that Chevy's are better. Their only aim is to stir up the natives.
> As long as people reply to this sort of drivel, the PC-dork will
> probably keep it up.
> 
> If you want a cheap computer, buy a PC. If you want to use your
> computer, get a Mac.
> 

Or more to the point...if you want a cheap computer that you can use, get
a Mac.  All things considered, the Mac prices are very competitive now.

gs

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



Butch Hauke <bhauke@cet.com> wrote in article
<19970208024717136491@spk-36.cet.com>...
> Nathan Hughes <nhughes@idir.net> wrote:
> 
> > Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to
get
> > anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you
by
> > mail.  Oh well, macusers are use to waiting I guess, look at os8
(another
> > 12 month wait for an outdated UNIX).
> 
> Pretty mouthy now that you've done your three or four year wait for
> Windows 95, aren't you! Overnight mail order (wow, one whole day) is
> usually cheaper than going to the mall or a computer superstore anyway.

You may not believe this, but I never waited a day for 95.  As a matter of
fact, I bought 6 months after it came out.  3.1 was enough at the time.  As
I began to do more graphics and 3d work I made the decision to move on.

I like browsing.  I enjoy walking the isles of hardware and software,
picking up the boxes and reading the specifics.  I like putting my hands on
things before shelling out the cash.  Does it come with a manual??  You
know right off if you pick up the box, and you can get an idea of its size
too..  Can I see a sample print before buying that inkjet?  Sorry, mail
order doesnt cut it.  We have all read the stories here about orders
arriving late, or not at all.  Or getting Photoshop 3 when you specifically
ordered 4.0.  And returns.  Tell me which you prefer, spending an hour on
the phone then mailing your defective merchandise back or looking the store
manager in the eye and asking for an exchange.  Take a guess which is more
effective.  If you want to do business by mail order, then more power to
you.  Most people don't and that is only one of many reasons for the
decline of the mac.

As for price, I find the superstores to be very competitive.  In fact, I
purchsed a zip drive from CompUSA for $169 then they gave me a $50 rebate. 
I defy you to locate a new zip drive for your mac for $119.


> 
> Butch Hauke
> ------------------------------------------
> Space Systems Maintenance - U.S. Air Force
> In space, no one can hear you whine!
> 

Nate
-- 
Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
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color=3D"#0000FF"><u>bhauke@cet.com</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt; =
wrote in article &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>19970208024717136491@spk-36.cet.com</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;...<br>&gt; Nathan Hughes &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>nhughes@idir.net</u><font color=3D"#000000">&gt; =
wrote:<br>&gt; <br><font color=3D"#000080">&gt; &gt; Thats mail order =
pricing, right? &nbsp;It has to be, thats the only way to get<br>&gt; =
&gt; anything for them. &nbsp;Nothing like waiting for your software to =
reach you by<br>&gt; &gt; mail. &nbsp;Oh well, macusers are use to =
waiting I guess, look at os8 (another<br>&gt; &gt; 12 month wait for an =
outdated UNIX).<br><font color=3D"#000000">&gt; <br><font =
color=3D"#0000FF">&gt; Pretty mouthy now that you've done your three or =
four year wait for<br>&gt; Windows 95, aren't you! Overnight mail order =
(wow, one whole day) is<br>&gt; usually cheaper than going to the mall =
or a computer superstore anyway.<br><font color=3D"#000000"><br>You may =
not believe this, but I never waited a day for 95. &nbsp;As a matter of =
fact, I bought 6 months after it came out. &nbsp;3.1 was enough at the =
time. &nbsp;As I began to do more graphics and 3d work I made the =
decision to move on.<br><br>I like browsing. &nbsp;I enjoy walking the =
isles of hardware and software, picking up the boxes and reading the =
specifics. &nbsp;I like putting my hands on things before shelling out =
the cash. &nbsp;Does it come with a manual?? &nbsp;You know right off if =
you pick up the box, and you can get an idea of its size too.. &nbsp;Can =
I see a sample print before buying that inkjet? &nbsp;Sorry, mail order =
doesnt cut it. &nbsp;We have all read the stories here about orders =
arriving late, or not at all. &nbsp;Or getting Photoshop 3 when you =
specifically ordered 4.0. &nbsp;And returns. &nbsp;Tell me which you =
prefer, spending an hour on the phone then mailing your defective =
merchandise back or looking the store manager in the eye and asking for =
an exchange. &nbsp;Take a guess which is more effective. &nbsp;If you =
want to do business by mail order, then more power to you. &nbsp;Most =
people don't and that is only one of many reasons for the decline of the =
mac.<br><br>As for price, I find the superstores to be very competitive. =
&nbsp;In fact, I purchsed a zip drive from CompUSA for $169 then they =
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your mac for $119.<br><br><br><font color=3D"#0000FF">&gt; <br>&gt; =
Butch Hauke<br>&gt; ------------------------------------------<br>&gt; =
Space Systems Maintenance - U.S. Air Force<br>&gt; In space, no one can =
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<br><font size=3D3 color=3D"#800000">Buying an Apple just doesn't make =
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------=_NextPart_000_01BC15D6.2E2E4460--

In article <01bc1608$78c8b460$0cc031cf@default>, "Nathan Hughes"
<nhughes@idir.net> wrote:

> 
> As for price, I find the superstores to be very competitive.  In fact, I
> purchsed a zip drive from CompUSA for $169 then they gave me a $50 rebate. 
> I defy you to locate a new zip drive for your mac for $119.
> 
> 
> Nate

Since a Zip drive out of the box can be installed on a Macintosh or a PC, a
"zip drive for your mac for $119" can be found at CompUSA with a $50 rebate.

Defied.

-- 
Danny Espinoza
saddino@clark.net

Nathan Hughes wrote:

> 
> As for price, I find the superstores to be very competitive. �In fact,
> I purchsed a zip drive from CompUSA for $169 then they gave me a $50
> rebate. �I defy you to locate a new zip drive for your mac for $119.
> 

> Nate
> --
> Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole
> rest of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.



You lose!!!

http://www.comwesti.com/specials.html

I'm too busy getting work done with my Mac to spend time browsing
computer stores.

Dan Walsh

In article <01bc1608$78c8b460$0cc031cf@default>, "Nathan Hughes"
<nhughes@idir.net> wrote:


> As for price, I find the superstores to be very competitive.  In fact, I
> purchsed a zip drive from CompUSA for $169 then they gave me a $50 rebate. 
> I defy you to locate a new zip drive for your mac for $119.

MicroCenter.  $155 before $50 rebate = $105.  Great Mac department, too.

In article <brian_lehen-0602971605400001@elysium30.magic.ca>,
brian_lehen@magic.ca (brian) wrote:

> In article <lewisda-ya023580000602970135450001@news.dal.ca>,
> lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > There have been numerous mac bashing posts lately from someone at the
> > pseudo "not.available.net" domain. All of them have been completely
> > unprovoked attacks on people asking simple questions. This is evidently
> > some stressed out PC user with too much time on his or her hands. My
> > question is... what is your problem whoever you are? What so you gain by
> > going into mac newsgroups and insulting people at random for no reason
> > whatsoever?
> > 
> David, take it easy, since the first Mac, there have been PC users who
> were unable to admit that they are using inferior technology.
> I read somwhere :
> "cocroaches are far more numerous than people. Sheer numbers do no
> necessarilly suggest a higher life form"
> 
> :-)
> 
> Regards
> Brian

FWIW, The New York Times published that little gem about five years ago:

  "DOS computers, made by I.B.M., Compaq, Tandy and about 
     a million other companies, are by far the most popular, 
   with about 70 million machines in use worldwide. Macintosh 
     fans will note that cockroaches are far more numerous       
   than humans, and that numbers alone do not connote a higher 
    life form."      - The New York Times, November 26, 1991   


Folks (like our trolling friend who started this thread) were predicting
the end of the MacOS then, too.

========================================================
For information about electronic data interchange
(EDI) on operating systems other than Microsoft's
proprietary ones:
    http://www.capital.net/users/rentals/EDI_page.htm
========================================================

In article <32F80160.3253@available.net>, unknown wrote:

>YOU don't have a computer?  You are not computer illiterated?  Where the
>hell you get onto internet and these newsgroups!!!  I saw all your posts
>are in MAC groups, so obvious are you just a stupid MAC HEAD.  GET A
>LIFE MAN!  I am amused by you pathetic helpless Mac heads.  Switch to
>low cost PC now, that is the only way to keep your investments in
>computer.
>__________________________

As loathe as I am to get involved in one of these platform flame wars, I
have a question.

Who the heck are you, Bizarro? I've never seen such twisted syntax.

-- 
-------------------------------
James Burns
Television graphic designer, Bon Vivant
jpburns@crl.com
http://www.crl.com/~jpburns

In article <01bc140c$1da5cee0$31e965ce@default>, "Nathan Hughes"
<nhughes@idir.net> wrote:

> > : a 7600/120 can be had for around $1800 or less depending on where you
> buy

[snip]

> Thats mail order pricing, right?  It has to be, thats the only way to get
> anything for them.  Nothing like waiting for your software to reach you by
> mail.

The last couple of computer superstores I walked into featured
know-littles with more misinformation than the Weekly National News (and
not just on the Mac side of the house) and with no clue to what's in stock
and how it works... Give me mail order, where I order what I want and it's
mine tomorrow for a whole $3 overnight express charge.

> Buying an Apple just doesn't make all that much sense when the whole rest
> of the world is using PC/Windows-based systems.

You're kidding, right? Does that statement make sense if you rephrase it?

"Driving a Porsche is dumb. Don't you know Ford sold 350,000 Tauruses last
year?"

"Those hamburgers _must_ be the best. They've sold billions of them."

There are 60 million people using MacOS systems. Most of us won't consider
using anything else. Wintel computer manufacturers should have such a
loyal customer base ...
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
|                 *reply to sdropkin@isd.net*                    |
| "DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq   |
| Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular,     |
| with about 70 million machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans,|
| on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more      | 
| numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a   |
| higher life form."       (New York Times, November 26, 1991)   |
__________________________________________________________________  

brian_lehen@magic.ca (brian) wrote:

> lewisda@tuns.ca.REMOVE.CAPS.TO.REPLY (Dave L.) wrote:

> > There have been numerous mac bashing posts lately from someone at the
> > pseudo "available.net" domain. All of them have been completely
> > unprovoked attacks on people asking simple questions. This is evidently
> > some stressed out PC user with too much time on his or her hands. My
> > question is... what is your problem whoever you are? What do you gain by
> > going into mac newsgroups and insulting people at random for no reason
> > whatsoever?
> > 
> David, take it easy, since the first Mac, there have been PC users who
> were unable to admit that they are using inferior technology...

True. I was not worked up, I was just scratching my head thinking... what
is this person's problem? I have been on the usenet for over 3 years now so
I am no stranger to people trying to start Mac vs. PC wars or people
insulting each other in Mac vs. PC wars. This person however is responding
to threads like, "Acrobat refuses to launch and asks for the symbol font?"
with answers like, "Oh, you have to reformat your hard drive because Mac's
suck" Nice eh? People like this just boggle my mind.

-- 
________________
David Lewis
lewisda@tuns.ca
www.tuns.ca/~lewisda