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In article <7HCjfDAeji3zEwLG@sebmail.demon.co.uk>, Stuart Brown
<Stuart@sebmail.demon.co.uk> writes
>
[snip]

>I was in the market for a videocard that will run well with Win95, and
>has reasonable DOS and Mpeg performance - can anybody suggest anything,
>with a budget of around UKP90. (Other than a second user Gatrox
>millenium :)  )
>
>Thanks,
>
>Stu
> I too had a 175MHz RAMDAC version of a Millenium (fitted as OEM in an
HP PC). My understanding of this RAMDAC issue is that it only really
becomes relevant at high resolutions and at greater colour depths e.g.
1024x768 in 24 bit colour. I had absolutely no problems with mine, and
BIOS/driver updates were readily available from http://www.matrox.com.

One thing you should be aware of, is that to upgrade the BIOS on the
Millenium card that I had, required you to flick a DIP switch on the
graphics card itself....not immediately obvious if you haven't any
documentation for the card (quite often the case if its OEM equipment
from a PC).

I found the card itself to be like lightning for Win95, CAD and 2D
functionality, and could beat quite a lot of cards on the 3D front as
well (other than specialised 3D cards of course).

Since then however, I've swapped it for a 4MB Matrox Mystique. The
Mystique is slightly slower for 2D than the Millenium, but quicker for
3D type stuff. I've seen the Mystique in MicroMart at around UKP80'ish,
including bundled games, which falls around your budget. 

Matrox have recently released "Mark 2" versions of both the Millenium
and the Mystique, which means there are some real bargains to be had on
the "Mark 1" versions, either of which would suit the home user
adequately. It obviously depends on your requirements as to whether the
Millenium or Mystique is the better choice.

If you've got the funds, the ultimate(?) combination appears to be a
Millenium Mk.2 allied with a 3Dfx based chipset 3D card...I wish I had
the money :-) 

HTH     

-- 
Poking death in the face with a big stick and 
then running away 

Stuart Brown wrote:
> 
> I'd appreciate some help on this issue - I did a search, but still
> couldn't find a clear answer.
> 
> I've been offered a Matrox Millenium 4 meg second-user, which is a
> system pull from a Gateway or AST machine - I suspect the former.
> 
> I am aware of some problems with the 'budget' versions of the Millenium
> used in Gateway machines - 

The only problems associated with the OEM Gateway Matrox card was that
people though they were buying the retail Matrox card. It accepts the
same memory upgrade card as the retail Matrox, however it will not
support the Matrox daughter card.

>am I right in thinking that the 175Mhz RamDac
> version is the Gateway version, and that the original retail version was
> 220Mhz, and that is the only version supported by Matrox.
> 
> What is 'wrong' with the budget version - is there some software that
> won't run on it.
>

True, the OEM Gateway Matrox card has a 175mhz RAMDAC (Random Access
Memory Digital to Analog Converter) as opposed to the retail Matrox
220mhz RAMDAC. Both perform identical up to the higher resolution of
1024 x 1280. There is no perceived differance in performance between
these two cards at the lower resolutions. It will run any software that
the retail version will, they both use the same video drivers. Support
software for the 220mhz version will also work on the 175mhz version.

> I was in the market for a videocard that will run well with Win95, and
> has reasonable DOS and Mpeg performance - can anybody suggest anything,
> with a budget of around UKP90. (Other than a second user Gatrox
> millenium :)  )
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Stu
>
> --
> Stuart Brown

You didn't metion a price for the used OEM Matrox card, but if it is
reasonable, say $50 to about $100 I would go for it, if I were in the
market. You could not buy anything of comporable performance for less
than say $150. Truth is, the OEM Matrox card is really a decent
performing card, I still have one in my P5-166XL. I just purchased a
retail Matrox Millenium 4mb card for $175 and will install it in a
computer that I am building for my daughter. No I will not put my OEM
Matrox card in her computer, and install the Retail card in mine. There
is just not that much differance between them.

Vince  
To reply via E-Mail: Remove the "stopspam." from the reply-to address

On Tue, 29 Jul 1997 18:31:10 +0100, Stuart Brown
<Stuart@sebmail.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> am I right in thinking that the 175Mhz RamDac
>version is the Gateway version, and that the original retail version was
>220Mhz,

Correct.

>What is 'wrong' with the budget version - is there some software that
>won't run on it.

 Not a thing is wrong with it. I have both the retail & the Gatrox,
each with 4megs. The Gatrox doesn't have the same hardware upgrade
capabilities as the retail ver. No mpeg slot, & to be honest, I don't
know about the tv tuner slot, etc.

 There is *no* noticble performance difference in the cards the way I
use them, with just the 4 megs. I use Sony Vivitron 17inch monitors,
which aren't capable of the refresh rates 220mhz ramdacs provide, so
it's a non-issue for me.

If the Gatrox is cheap, I'd snag it, as they're quite nice!

In article <7HCjfDAeji3zEwLG@sebmail.demon.co.uk>, Stuart Brown
<Stuart@sebmail.demon.co.uk> alledgedly scrawls
>I was in the market for a videocard that will run well with Win95, and
>has reasonable DOS and Mpeg performance - can anybody suggest anything,
>with a budget of around UKP90. (Other than a second user Gatrox
>millenium :)  )

Thanks for all the advice everyone - the end result was that I have
obtained a Mystique card at a very good price new, boxed etc.

I wasn't totally happy with the Millenium offered, especially as i was
looking to a Rainbow Runner in the future - the Mystique is powerful
enough for anything I want to do, and for the money, and availability,
seems the best deal around.

-- 
Stuart Brown

In article <7HCjfDAeji3zEwLG@sebmail.demon.co.uk>,
Stuart Brown  <Stuart@sebmail.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I am aware of some problems with the 'budget' versions of the Millenium
> used in Gateway machines - am I right in thinking that the 175Mhz RamDac
> version is the Gateway version, and that the original retail version was
> 220Mhz, and that is the only version supported by Matrox.

Yes. The 175Mhz version is an OEM package that was sold to various
system builders, including Gateway.

I have one of these cards in my PC right now -- it's homebuilt, but
the card was pulled from my wife's machine, which was built by a
national store chain called MicroCenter.

> What is 'wrong' with the budget version - is there some software that
> won't run on it.

Nope. Just the RAMDAC. If you're not particularly interested in
resolutions better than 1152x864x16bpp, then it works great.

I haven't tested it as resolutions higher than that.

Rick R.

On 7/29/97 10:31AM, in message <7HCjfDAeji3zEwLG@sebmail.demon.co.uk>, Stuart 
Brown <Stuart@sebmail.demon.co.uk> wrote:

    I've been offered a Matrox Millenium 4 meg second-user, which is a
    system pull from a Gateway or AST machine - I suspect the former.
    
    I am aware of some problems with the 'budget' versions of the Millenium
    used in Gateway machines - am I right in thinking that the 175Mhz RamDac
    version is the Gateway version, and that the original retail version was
    220Mhz, and that is the only version supported by Matrox.
    
 I'm not aware of any real "problems" with the Gatrox, only _perceptions_ based 
 on expectations or misunderstandings.
 
 For the basic card, there is nothing wrong with the Gatrox!  The 175 MHz 
 RAMDAC probably will not cause a perceptible (as opposed to benchmark score) 
 difference unless you are trying to go over 1024 x 768 resolution.  IIRC, the 
 other big difference is the MPEG hardware daughtercard cannot be added to the 
 Gatrox.
    
    What is 'wrong' with the budget version - is there some software that
    won't run on it.
    
 I know of no software that will not run on it.
    
--
John Weiss
Seattle, WA