🚀 go-pugleaf

In <4j6rdo$gsq@elna.ethz.ch> Graham Shields <shieldsg@erdw.ethz.ch>
writes: 

Subject: Re: English Tutor Needed.

Marek Konski wrote:
>>>>

[deleted] 

>> > >Moreover, did you follow a recent discussion in sci.lang
>>>>about what can >be considered one's native language (i.e., who
>>>>is a native speaker of a >language)? > >Regards,

>It is quite clear who is a native speaker as soon as they open
>their mouth to speak. 

Sounds pretty scientific but...why don't we try to pay more
attention to the subject?

I wasn't interested in _methods of detection of foreigners_
but in legality of barring somebody _who knows the language well_
from employment based on his/her nationality.

As far as I know, no candidates for this job have "opened their
mouth" yet, so what's your problem with them?

What if they opened their mouth and it wouldn't be clear that they are
not "native speakers" because they had good teachers when they
studied the language, not some amateur "native speakers", what
then?

Are you trying to say that people are qualified to teach a
language solely by virtue of being "native speakers" of it? This
doesn't seem to be true.

If you are going to learn a foreign language sometime in the
future, I would recommend that you hire somebody well-qualified
as your tutor  not the first "native speaker" you meet, lest it
be known that you are a "nonnative speaker" as soon as you open
your mouth.

>If it is illegal to stipulate that a teacher be a native
>speaker 

Yes. It might be illegal discrimination (depending on who is
hiring) based on prejudice, ("an unfavorable opinion or feeling
formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason"). 

>then it should be illegal to state that a mathematics teacher
>be at home doing sums.

You're kidding, aren't you?

Comparing, for example,  a degreed English language teacher with
a "mathematician" who is "not at home doing sums" is certainly
too preposterous to be taken seriously.

A "mathematician" who cannot do sums is rather like a "teacher"
of a language who has never heard about it or is deaf-mute.

>In my opinion, the word "native" in this context relates to the
>fact that the teacher must feel at home                        
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^
Whatever it means.

speaking the language.                                          
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This probably means that a candidate should be qualified not
necessarily a "native speaker." Other listed requirements ensure
that. Whether and how he achieves this goal is his business. He
must also know how to teach so that his pupils wouldn't notify
everybody how poor their command of the language is "as soon as
they open their mouth."

As the discussion I mentioned showed, it is not always that easy
to decide who is "a native speaker" and who is not, so what kind
of criterion is this?

>and have been brought up in an english speaking country. 

Why? People speak English, not countries. What is an
"English-speaking country" and how will you ensure that all
people brought up in it will be considered "native speakers,"
anyway?

Do you believe that there are not, for instance,  "native German
speakers" brought up outside "German-speaking countries"?

What about "a native German or Hungarian speaker", born in
Rumania, not being allowed to teach Rumanian in this country? 
It doesn't seem nice, does it?

How many "native speakers" here speak or write: "he don't like", 
"I says", "there country", "its obvious", "it's population is
Christian", "your a nice guy," etc.? Do you believe that they should
teach anybody?

Regards,

Marek