🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1993Jan8.020423.21214@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, w2lee@argo.acs.oakland.edu (Walter Lee) writes:
> 
> 3A`|EM CO3DAH -)TA HI-O3rPYpYnnA?
> 
> 
> R N3Y`|AJI PYCCKNN R3blK BCErO TOJIbKO nOJIbTOPA rODA...
> N3BNHNTE MEHR 3A nJIOXYI-O rPAMMATNKY um.g.
> 
  Ok, hold one, here comes a FAQ. (It's my first time on alt.uu.lang.russian
  so don't be upset :-) ).

  I guess the _random_ letter combinations above make up Russian letters,
  but how are they encoded? Is there something called dribble2dvi, so I
  can view this text in Cyrilic (sp?). Our is it just plain text, written
  in ASCII?  

  {I don't read Russian, I'm only looking around on the net for a 
   girlfriend of mine, who is studying Russian}

       ---< Sonic says: "more haste is more speed" >---

I don't know if you are using a fairly common ASCII transcription of Russian,
but with my limited knowledge of Russian, I couldn't figure out what that was,
except in the most general of terms.

I think that the first thing which must be done is to develop (or adopt) an
ASCII transcription for the Cyrillic Alphabet which could be used for all 
discussions on the group.

A few things I would like to see:  As few two-letter transcriptions as 
possible, a one-to-one mapping for the Cyrillic alphabet to the transcription,
and the existance of both cases of letters in the transcribed form as well.

Scott C Stoness
ScS 

Would transliteration be in order here?  If not transliteration, then some 
standard set of characters needs to be adopted, since the cyrrilic alphabet
contains some similar characters.  I personally vote for transliteration, since
most sounds can be done that way.  


Jeff Tulley
tulleyj@bones.et.byu.edu

Posting for: 

<jerry_kaidor@engtwomac.synoptics.com>

Scott Stoness:
   RE>Russian Transcription
I didn't know that there was a standard Russian transcription.  As long as for
the most part it conforms to the criteria I set out, and is easy to use.

Jerry Kaidor:
**** Russian computer people have had to put up with a lot of latin-only
hardware in the past, so they developed the koi-7 & KOI-8
standards.  "KOI" stands for "Kod Obrabotki Informacii", and the number stands
for the number of bits.  Email inside the former SU is done in KOI-8, which is
KOI-7 with the top bit set.  Unfortunately, email in the USA is largely 7-bit,
so when they send us KOI-8 stuff, the top bit gets stripped off, and it comes
through as KOI-7.  Ugly, but readable.

    Most PC email packages have the facility to convert KOI-8 to another code,
called A.V.  ( Alternatiwnyj Wariant ).  A.V. is used to display Russian
characters on PC compatibles, and there are lots of freeware drivers available
for it.  As long as you have at least EGA display hardware, you can read and
write directly in Cyrillic on your pc screen.  However, sending A.V. directly
on a 7-bit line is a no-no,
as it turns into absolute garbage when the top bit is stripped off.

    I have been corresponding with people in Russia and the Ukraine, in
Russian, using A.V. code uuencoded.  uuencode makes it into 7-bit stuff that
can get from here to there.  Then my correspondants convert it into A.V. and
enjoy it on their pcs.

              - Jerry
p.s.  Could you post this to the newsgroup for me?  I can read, but not post (
this particular group hasen't made it into the site's "active" list yet ) 
Thanks.

In article <1993Jan8.145931.15760@venus.ic.cmc.ca>, scott@venus.ic.cmc.ca (Scott Stoness) writes:
|> I don't know if you are using a fairly common ASCII transcription of Russian,
|> but with my limited knowledge of Russian, I couldn't figure out what that was,
|> except in the most general of terms.
|>
|> I think that the first thing which must be done is to develop (or adopt) an
|> ASCII transcription for the Cyrillic Alphabet which could be used for all
|> discussions on the group.
|>

	There were a lot of discussions about transliteration of cyrillic in
	soc.culture soviet group.
	Actually, it gave no result. There are several ways to write in Russian
	using computer: (a) Use KOI-7/KOI-8 old soviet standard (very poor way)
			(b) Use "alternative" coding from IBM PC BETA package
				(still poor way)
			(c) Use transliteration convension.

	The most widely used transliteration scheme is like this:

		a, b, w (v), g, d, e (je), jo, zh, z, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, r,
		s, t, u, f, h, c, ch, sh, sch, `, y, ', e, ju, ja.

	--I.


|> A few things I would like to see:  As few two-letter transcriptions as
|> possible, a one-to-one mapping for the Cyrillic alphabet to the transcription,
|> and the existance of both cases of letters in the transcribed form as well.
|>
|> Scott C Stoness
|> ScS

In article <1993Jan12.082439.14333@wisipc.weizmann.ac.il> ilya@wiscon.weizmann.ac.il (Usvyatsky Ilya) writes:
>	There were a lot of discussions about transliteration of cyrillic in
>	soc.culture soviet group.
>	Actually, it gave no result. There are several ways to write in Russian
>	using computer:
>			(c) Use transliteration convension.

Nah! It's ugly and barely readable. If you're unable to fix
software on your own machine that's your problem, right?

>			(b) Use "alternative" coding from IBM PC BETA package
>				(still poor way)

The "alternative code" by V.M.Bryabrin (he was my science tutor at
Moscow U, BTW) is used on PCs with MS-DOS *only* because it does
not interfere with the brain-dead IBM pseudographics. It is not
standard.

>			(a) Use KOI-7/KOI-8 old soviet standard (very poor way)

There are several codes: KOI-7 H0 (ASCII) and H1 (ASCII with cyrillic
letters in place of Latin (codes 0100-0176)) -- the SI (^N) switches
to H1, SO (^O) switches to H0; KOI-7 H0/1 -- the upper-case only
(ASCII with codes 0140-0176 filled by upper-case cyrillic) and,
finally, 8-bit KOI-8 (ASCII in lower half, upper & lower-case cyrillic
in range 0300-0377).

The KOI-8 is the de facto standard for networking in Russia (particularly
because it is the "proper" superset of ASCII (unlike the "alternative
code") and can be directly used with practically all terminals with
loadable fonts (i.e. you can use practically any DEC, Wyse or other
ANSI terminals without any hardware modifications); this code is
also standard for Unix systems.

The cyrillic letters in KOI-8 ordered as:

@  A B  C    D   E  F  G  H   I   J  K L  M N O  P  Q R S T
     _                 __         ,             __
|O A b  ||   /|  E (|) |  X  |/| |/| K /| M H O || (| P C T
        ~~' '~~'                                   /|

U  V   W  X  Y   Z  [  \   ]  ^   _
                                 _
Y >|<  B  H  b|  3 ||| -) ||| ||  b
                   ~~~    ~~, ~|

Codes 0300-0337 are for lower case, 0340-0377 for upper case
(i don't know where this particular convention came from for
it seems unjustified).

This (non-alpahbetical) order actually preadates computers and was
used in an international telegraph for encoding cyrillic. The KOI-8
code with trimmed 8th bit is still readable no worse than "transliteration
conventions").

In fact, if your e-mail software 8-bit transparent you can easily
exchange e-mail in Russian. The example of a text in KOI-8:

	üÔÏ ÞÔÏ ÚÁ ÂÁÒÍÁÌÅÊ
	úÁÂÒÁÌÓÑ ÎÁ íÁ×ÚÏÌÅÊ?
	âÒÏ×É ÅÇÏ ÇÕÓÔÙ,
	òÅÞÉ ÅÇÏ ÐÕÓÔÙ...
	ëÔÏ ÄÁÓÔ ÐÒÁ×ÉÌØÎÙÊ ÏÔ×ÅÔ
	ôÏÔ ÐÏÌÕÞÉÔ ÄÅÓÑÔØ ÌÅÔ.

--vadim