🚀 go-pugleaf

In <1994Apr14.170205.24377@rhrk.uni-kl.de> weber@rhrk.uni-kl.de (Christoph Weber-Fahr [KIT]) writes:

>Hello,

>clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis) writes:

>>In article <1994Apr13.141304.19111@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de>,
>>Peter Bruells <Peter.Bruells@arbi.informatik.uni-oldenburg.de> wrote:
>>>Do you mean that the US (or Canada) would extradite their own
>>>citiziens??? Anglo-Saxon law is even weirder than I imagined....

How wierd did you imagine it?

>>I think you're getting confused between extradition and deportation/expulsion/
>>exile/stripping of citizenship.  

>He is not.

>>Extradition is different.  If a Canadian citizen, say, committed a major
>>crime in the US, and escaped back to Canada before arrest, the US government
>>can initiate extradition proceedings to have the person returned to the US
>>to stand trial.  Canadian law imposes several rules on the extradition process
>>to make sure that things are fair, regardless of whether the person is
>>a citizen of Canada or not.  For example, the crime must also be a crime
>>in Canada, the requesting country must have a track record of acceptably
>>fair trials, the crime must not be political in nature, there's reason to
>>believe that the right person is being accused, and that if convicted
>>the person should not be subject to unreasonably harsh penalty.

>>Germany is no different in this regard.  Germany has reciprocal extradition
>>agreements with both Canada and the US, and can and has extradited German
>>citizens to stand trial in Canada, the US and elsewhere.  Presumably,
>>Germany also has laws to protect people from unjust extradition similarly to
>>Canada.

>This is nonsense. Pure and simple. We have it in the constitution, on very
>prominent place, that no German citizen may be extradited to another state.
>Not even within the EU.
>If it's illegal here, they will take me to court here. If not, then 
>they won't.

>>There are supposedly countries that inspite of extradition treaties that say
>>that they must, will not extradite their own nationals under any circumstances.
>>I've heard that Mexico and Poland are like this, but I don't know for sure.

>I would seriously doubt that Germany signed any treaty violating the 
>constitution. (And if they did, the treaty is likely void in this regard).

>Regards

>Christoph Weber-Fahr

Hey there! I just happen to have my english translation of the ol' Grundgesetz
right here, and I quote:

Section 1 (Basic Rights)

 Article 16

  (1) No one may be deprived of their German citizenship. Loss of citizenship
      may arise only pursuant to law, and against the will of the person
      affected only if such person does not thereby become stateless.

  (2) No German may be EXTRADITED to a foreign country. Persons persecuted on
      political grounds shall enjoy the right to asylum.
      (Is that last bit the part that was recently changed?)

This is very interesting, I think.

Are there any well-known cases where a German has commited a serious crime
in another country and has been tried and convicted for that crime in
Germany and served (or is currently serving) their sentence?

What exactly happens in such situations?

I can't imagine that Germany would simply let someone who (z.B.) murdered 
someone in Canada and managed to make it back to Germany to go unpunished.

Would that person be arrested and tried in Germany by German authorities? 
Would the German government pick up the tab for witnesses to be flown to
Germany to participate in the trial? Or what?

Here's some more questions:

 - Is Kohl going down this year or not?

 - Why do some people put a D before the Postl(mumble)zahl?
   Is it because they're so used to putting a W or O and they canna
   break the habit?

ttfn

Jeff McFarlane