🚀 go-pugleaf

Lulu of the lotus-eaters (quilty@twain.ucs.umass.edu) wrote:

: Oppression anywhere is oppression, no matter how popularly it's embraced 
: -- and whether or not I'm a 'citizen' of that oppressive state.

WRONG. There are cultural differences. My point stems from extended
discussions with a friend and a relatively small minded person we deal with
day to day. She's got such a Westernized view of everything, that in her
p.o.v. she thinks thats its extreme oppression that in some Middle Eastern
countries women have to wear veils. You might agree.

In fact, the women there might NOT think its oppression. And then you'll
invoke the "beauty-myth" argument that various feminists use, that anyone
who doesnt agree with them must be brain-washed. Mebbe this isnt true
perhaps? 

Mebbe not being allowed to publish the facts in the papers here is acceptable
to some of us, in view of the non-sequestered jury and the concerns of
Paul Teale's right to a fair trial.

Actually, people just want to know the details up here personally. If they
were the only one to know, they'd love it, even if they didnt read it
in the paper. However, the media is the only way most people get information
on stuff, so people whine about it. However, word of mouth, and the net
now, have helped info get around alot without the media. Supposedly 1/4 of
ontario knows some banned info. I dont really care either way (but then
again I've stumbled across an awful lots of speculation and possibly
some facts (which is which?!) regarding the trial.

So, since some of us agree with the ban (I am beginning to, tho not its
execution), perhaps its just a cultural thing. And perhaps there isnt
an objective and easy definition of "oppression". (American govt
bashing time: seems to me that you always apply your views on every
situation and then walk in and rectify it in your eyes, when you dont
even have interests there - Kuwait excluded - we all want our oil.)

: Majorities have been wrong about things before.  The vast majority of US 
: southerners were opposed to integration in the 1950s.  The were just 
: wrong morally and politically.  A majority of US citizens supported the 

There's no such thing as "just wrong". You have an educated view now,
and in YOUR OPINION its wrong. There's no physical definion of right and
wrong. Grow up.

: butchery against Baghdad.  They were wrong about this.  I have no 

What? Were they? If you guys didnt do that, I'd like to see your (and our)
economy try to stand back up with a sudden huge drop in oil imports... lets
not talk about this. I agree with defending your own interests tho, but be
honest about it. Democracy in Kuwait my ass.

: particular interest in majorities... and democracy DOES NOT mean ceding 
: to majority opinion, but rather means continuing to argue against it in 
: the name of truth and rights.

Better find a convienient and popular set of values before you go crusading.

: : Do you know what happened the last time a Canadian government pissed off 
: : the Canadian people?  That's right -- we smashed them out of existence,
: : down from a vast majority of some hundreds of seats to TWO SEATS. That's
: : right, TWO.  They're not even an official party anymore.  When was the 
: : last time something like this happened in America?  Not recently?  I'm
: : not surprised.

: Congratulations.  This was really quite wonderful.  It was especially 
: wonderful since it was such an awful Party to start with.

Wow. What a well thought out point. They've been around as a party for a long
long time... as long as our modern political system. They dont just disappear
cause they're an awful party. I am sure that the american parties have been
pretty awful at times, but they dont just "disappear" suddenly.

: Oh, I am worried about this.  I don't much care about this US vs. Canada 
: nonsense.  Of course Canada is better in almost all respects.  And you're 
: quite right that I'm very worried about the stranglehold by the 
: Demlicans/Republicrats.  So what though? That's an interesting thread, 
: but somehow unrelated to the censorship in the KH case.

Wrong. our political system is closely tied to our legal system. The same
basic principles of rights and liberties apply to both. 

/kc

-- 
Ken P. Chasse -- Sysadmin, Sonic Interzone   "Carrying netnews does not a 
Public Access email/Usenet -- 416-968-7292    publisher make." - something
spooge@sizone.pci.on.ca --  Toronto CANADA    I'd like to see. Support it.