🚀 go-pugleaf

The use of the word Chazars is obviously a reference to the Khazar tribe 
which converted to Judaism in the 9th century.  They lived in Russia and 
Eastern Europe.  The arguement is that if European Jews are descended 
from these non-Semitic peoples then in fact they cannot have any claim on 
the Land of Israel since they had never come from there.

Let's examine a few facts. First of all, both Islam and Judaism allow for 
conversion.  If a blond blue eyes Swede converts to Islam, he is still 
allowed to go on Haj to Mecca.  In fct it becomes his obligation to do 
so.  The fact that his ancestors might have been Vikings is irrelevant.  
An Indian from the rain forest of Brazil, or a Maori from NZ can also 
convert to either Islam or Judaism and his descendents will still be 
Moslems of Jews even though he might have no Semitic blood.  So, the 
arguement that Jews who might have descended from Khazars are not Jews or 
have no claim cultural or religiously to live in Israel is ridiculous.


Let's now talk about the Palestinians.  Who are they?  Are they mentioned 
in the Bible?  Do any Greek or Roman historians write about them?

Did they ever have a kingdom that ruled the land of Israel?  

Let's shift for a moment. Who are the Haitians?  They are a distinct 
culture and ethnic group that originates on an island in the Caribbean.  
They have a language of their own derived from African languages and 
French, they have a poetry and art of their own.  But, 1,000 years ago 
they did not exist.  They formed out of events of the last 500 years due 
to slave trade, and colonialism.

The so called Palestinian people are similar.  They emerged from the 
various Jewish, Arab, Turkish and other peoples who were living in the 
Land of Israel.  The name Palestine is actually derived from the word 
Phoenician and was given to that land by the Romans as a pejorative 
against the Jews that the Romans had conquered.  Do the Palestinians have 
a unique language?  No, they use Arabic just like many other Arabs.  Are 
they actually Arab?  No, they are Arab by culture, but if you look at the 
faces of so called Palestinians in Jerusalem, you can see British faces. 
 After all, the British soldiers had spent a long time in 
Israel/Palestine.  So, as is true of occupations by soldiers everywhere, 
there was a little fraternization of soldiers and local women.

If you go to gaza you can see faces that look more like Egyptians and 
even black African faces.  If you go to the north of Israel, the so 
called Palestinians look different from Jerusalem and Gaza Palestinians.

Just like Jews, the so called Palestinians are a mixed race people.  
Their very recent establishment of a unique identity as a people does not 
negate their right to exist as a people.

But, if you are going to play the game of trying to negate the Jewish 
claim to Israel by trying to show that Jews have no historical link to 
the ancient past and to Israel, you will run into trouble.

Yes, yes, there are Palestinians who say that Jesus and Bar Kochba were 
Palestinians.  But that is absurd since both identified themselves as 
Jews.

Why does no one argue that King Hussein of Jordan, the grandson of a 
Saudi King, has no claim on Jordan, a country created by the British with 
absolutely no historical or Biblical precedent?

In fact, before 1900, the term Palestinian was used to describe Jews who 
lived in Israel/Palestine and not Arabs.

Even though the so called Palestinian people are a mix race people with 
British-Turkish-African and yes probably even Jewish ancestry, that does 
not negate their right to exist as a people.  In the same way, just 
because Jews are now a mixed race people who have absorbed all sorts of 
people in their 2000 year exile, that does not negate their claim to 
their religious patrimony.

I offer no solution to the problem of one land with two people.  I only 
want to point out to the fellow to who msg I am replying that he ought to 
be very careful in his arguements.





Izzeddin Musa wrote:
> 
> ## Nachricht <6fRvGYAyg2B@forum.nadeshda.gun.de> vom 07.10.97 11:06 weitergeleitet
> ## Ursprung : /A R C H I V  1
> ## Ersteller: i.musa@NADESHDA.gun.de (Izzeddin Musa)
> 
>    THE JERUSALEM TIMES; September 26, 1997:
>    ----------------------------------------
> 
>                 *** *Administrative  detention* ***
> 
>   Some 250 Palestinians, arrested since the July 30 suicide bombings
>   in Jerusalem are now considered administrative detainees of Megid-
>   do Prison, according to the Nablus-based human rights group, Soli-
>   darity Internationl. A statement published by the group on Tuesday,
>   said 500 arrests had been made throughout the West Bank in the past
>   two months.  Two handred and  fifty of those  arrested were placed
>   under administrative detention. The statement added that there are
>   now altogether 400 detainees.
> 
>                              *****
> 
>                 *** *Hebron: freedom of worship* ***
> 
>   For the second week running,  Palestinian officials have protested
>   Israel's decision to prohibit the muezzins at the  Ibrahimi Mosque
>   in Hebron from using a loudspeaker on Saturdays to call the Muslims
>   to prayer. Muezzin Fawzi al-Khatib told an Agence France Presse re-
>   porter that the Israeli authorities had instructed him not to  use
>   the loudspeaker "so as not to disturb the settlers holding prayers
>   inside the mosque."  The Director  of the Islamic Waqf  in Hebron,
>   Sheikh Salah Natsheh,  called the  injunction  "an assault  on the
>   freedom of worship." The Head of the  Muslim Theologians' Society,
>   Hamed Bitawi, said: "This hardly the first step taken by Israel to
>   turn the mosque into a synagogue."
> 
>                              *****
> 
>   "Muslims awake and drive these murderer filth-chazars out of the
>   Holy Land."    IM
> 
>                               *****
> 
>                     *** *House demolation* ***
> 
>   Over 1,800 Palestinian homes have been destroyed over the past ten
>   years,  a coording to a report  published this week by the Israeli
>   human rights group, B'Tselem. Of those 109 were demolished in 1997
>   alone. Since the July 30 suicide bomb attacks, 29 homes were demo-
>   lisched on  the grounds  that the  homeowners  had not  obtained a
>   building license,  the report said. It added that 163 Palestinians
>   lost their homes as a result,  among them 70 children, noting that
>   the destruction of the homes had cost the homeowners over $500,000.
>   The  B'Tselem report stressed that house demolation procedures had
>   intensified since the July 30 bombings.
> 
>                              *****
>   Feeded: 07.10.1997                   I. Musa / Forum for Palestine
> 
>   The day will come, when the Palestinians will crash down the homes
>   of the chazars on their heads.
> 
>                              *****