🚀 go-pugleaf

In <pjw.709733022@lobo> pjw@lobo.canberra.edu.au (Peter Wishart) writes:

>In <1992Jun27.090742.20799@metapro.DIALix.oz.au>
>   bernie@metapro.DIALix.oz.au (Bernd Felsche) writes:

>                     .....  Perth is not currently a chapter, but an
>affiliated organisation.

Actually, I understood that WAUG was a chapter, following a
petition of some time back. Maybe it's an affiliate instead.
As I understand it, if WAUG is an affiliate, then there must
have been a vote to accept it as such.

>I don't believe that AUUG Inc should just give money to the chapters
>and not worry about it again.  It is the incorporated body, it should
>be responsible (see below).

It can *make* the chapters accept responsibility. Delegate!

>>People join a chapter, either as a full AUUG member or as a
>>chapter affiliate.

>I agree that distribution of funds in a chapter should be left to the
>chapter (provided they are accountable for its proper use).  However I
>feel that there should be national support for chapter activities,
>pooling of funds so that certain activities can be organised on a
>national basis be applied to chapters (e.g. guest national speakers
>travelling to all chapters).

There can be a global pool for that, as you suggested in
your first posting. Also, chapters may contribute from their
own pool of funds if it can get a speaker to a remote city
like Darwin, Broome or Perth, when it wouldn't otherwise be
possible.

It would be appropriate (IMHO) for AUUG to cooperate with
chapters, to ensure that sufficient funds are held by AUUG
for national activities which also involve the chapters
themselves.

[ about accountability and management of funds ]

>>No problem at all. Let the chapters handle the details.
>>After all, why require them to keep AUUG funds in a separate
>>pool from those from other sources? Let the chapters set
>>their own policies.

>Ok.  So the AUUG Management Committee is deciding what are acceptable
>uses of funds?  That seems reasonable.  There must be some accounability.

The chapter committees would be accountable to the chapter
council and hence AUUG Management.

>>I believe that the distinction is needlessly complex. Any
                       [ between FEC and SIC ]
>>particular reason why an SIC should be "discriminated" against?

>I agree it is complex.  I was told that there are existing chapters who
>do not want to be bound by all sorts of new rules.  I don't want to
>p*ss those people off, the SIC is my way of causing least grief for
>them.

It'd be easier and immediate, if there were no special rules
needing to be obeyed by the chapters. They should only be
accountable to AUUG Management only to the extent of the
funding. That is not an unreasonable intrusion IMHO.

>I am not keen on chapters being responsible for handling membership
>applications and renewals.  The chapters are run by volunteers, they
>may get too busy to collect the money and maintain all the paperwork.
>The AUUG Secretariat now seems to be handling this function reasonably
>efficiently.  They get paid to perform the service.  If they don't
>perform, they don't get paid.  A volunteer's ability to perform waxes
>and wanes for all sorts of different reasons.  I would not like us to
>go back to the bad old days when membership applications and cheques
>sat around somewhere for months (or even worse got banked and then
>"lost").

If all memberships flow through AUUG, then the chapters are
not acting as a front-end for AUUG, providing services from
the outset. Don't we all like consistent interfaces?

I understand (very well) about the contraints on volunteers.
However, I think that you're being a little pessimistic.
Although I don't expect all chapters to be as well managed
as WAUG (or better), the delays in getting things like
memberships sorted out are not unreasonable.

Chapters could be provided with "kits" which include such
things as how to set up a database which sends mail to AUUG
as soon as members are registered. AUUG's quest, as I
understand it, in encouraging the formation of chapters, is
the delivery of better services to members. The shorter the
path, the better the delivery.

>If AUUG is going to hand out money to chapters, then there must be
>rules on what you can do with the money and for accountability.  That
>accountability must go back to the constitutionally recognised
>management authority for AUUG (the management committee).

And if the chapter is not incorporated, then it doesn't have
to follow any rules! After all, the chapter itself is not a
legal entity unless incorporated. It'd be the poor bastards
left in the chapter who get slimed if there's trouble,
because you can bet that the really malicious people in the
chapters would not be around, or at least immune to
prosecution.

>There is no reason for a "chapter" of AUUG to be incorporated in its
>own right.  In fact I am not sure if it is legal (I am assuming you are
>using "incorporate" in its legal sense here).  By being a chapter of
>AUUG the liability of people running the chapter should be covered by
>AUUG's incorporation.  That is provided that the chapter is legally
>constitued as defined in AUUG's constitution.

I cannot see (i.e. being almost totally ignorant in the
field) as to why there should be an impediment to
incorporated associations becoming chapters of AUUG, as long
as the rules which AUUG imposes on the chapters do not
affect the chapters' legal obligations as individual
entities. It also facilitates the operations of chapters if
they are incorporated.

>Having the chapter incorporate probably makes it an affiliated
>organisation rather than a "chapter".

If I read the rules correctly, an incorporated association
_may_ become a chapter. However, it's up to AUUG Management
to decide.

Maybe somebody else has some contribution to this discussion...
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