🚀 go-pugleaf

You have missed one important Java plus - Servlets. Prior to the Java
Servlets API and the apache mod_jserv module, I would probably have
advised to go with PHP. However, I have just developed an ISP
accoutning system which uses java servlets, the JDBC database API, the
apache jserv module and an sql back-end and it works really well. 

I think java's OO stuff is more mature and better defined than PHP, is
better for more complex processing of db data and more flexible (you
can use both servlets and applets, java server pages, java server side
includes etc). There are also quite a few good libraries freely
available for doing html which make it even easier (e.g. ecs). 

Tim
Mark <code.guy@home.com> writes:

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> 
> Brad Willcott wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hi there.
> >
> > Firstly, this is NOT a challenge for a fight to the death, but a
> > serious request for real-world experience advise. So no flames please.
> >
> > I am trying to decide on a company standard for Web development. I am
> > in the process of converting the company's servers from M$ NT Server 4
> > to RedHat 6.2 Linux. This, ofcourse includes the Web server. I am
> > pretty much sold on using Apache, and have already got an experimental
> > server running with modules for: Perl, SSL, PHP and FrontPage 2000
> > Extensions.
> >
> > My question to you folks, is what are the reasons for/against using
> > Java (not Javascript) and/or PHP as my company's web development
> > language? As yet I have no preferrance for either apart from PHP's
> > Open Source philosophy. I am interested in information on such things
> > as: Learning curve, development/maintenance time, flexibility,
> > accessing back-end Oracle databases, simplicity, power functions, etc.
> >
> > Perhaps you may feel it benefitial to use both. Why? Why not?
> >
> > We will be developing Web sites of varied styles and complexities.
> > Many accessing back-end databases requiring complex relationships and
> > integrity checking. Some will have two views of the database:
> > Client/Customer view, and Company/Data Maintenance view. I'm looking
> > to develop browser based data systems.
> >
> > So, I wish to thank you all, in advance for your input to this
> > discussion.
> >
> > Brad Willcott
> > Manager, Client Projects
> > EW Systems, Australia
> > +612 6232 6342
> > <brad@ewsystems.com.au>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> Well to start out with lets look at the similarities.
> 
> 1. Both PHP and Java are interpreted. Meaning they have to be converted
> to machine code at Run-time unlike C which is precompiled and faster.
> 
> 2. Both are easy to learn if you know C/C++ and easier than C.
> 
> 3. Both can access your server and have built-in commands for doing so.
> You may need to install an Oracle library for Java, I don't know.
> 
> If someone can think of more similarities add them.
> 
> Differences
> 
> 1. Java can be Run on either the server or the client. PHP pages are
> rendered prior to sending to the client so they are server side. But the
> client has to support Java.
> 
> 2. Java can render pages as pop-up java applets on the client and offer
> more flexibility as they aren't limited to HTML, JavaScript, ActiveX
> stuff like browsers are. (I am distinquishing the difference between
> using Java engine for a applet as opposed to the browser itself minus
> the Java Engine.)
> 
> 3. For Client side information that is using a continuous feed i.e.
> Stock Ticker. Java is the way to go. I have seen the PHP chat program
> and it is slow.
> 
> 4. Security. PHP is more secure than Java. Java applets crash browsers
> and tend to be buggy. PHP on the other hand is considered pretty secure
> as the engine runs as part of the apache server. This means that Apache
> doesn't have to fork another program to render the pages serverside.
> 
> 5. Open Source. Because PHP is open source you can compile new commands
> to speed up page rendering or add more PHP commands.
> 
> 6. Object oriented. Despite PHP's limited Object Oriented support, it
> really isn't an object oriented programming language yet. Java is Object
> Oriented. Object Oriented programming is easier when you are working
> with a large number of programmers. It helps breakdown the problems into
> smaller units which can be written by individuals who don't have to know
> how the other programmers are writing their modules.
> 
> 7. Learning curve. PHP is fairly easy to learn and easier than Java.
> 
> 8. Graphics. PHP is slow at rendering graphics on the fly. As for Java,
> I haven't tried it but as an interpreted language I would assume that it
> would be slow as well unless.... See number 9.
> 
> 9. Compiling. Well if you want, you can compile Java code serverside for
> better performance. I don't know of a PHP compiler as of yet.
> 
> 10. Compatibility. If you use Java client side, you will run into
> compatibility problems. If the user is using one of the newer Browsers,
> they "may" have java enabled. An older browser probably doesn't have
> java support.
> 
> 11. PHP isn't a very mature programming language. With PHP, you are able
> to do lots but it is still lacking really good string functions. I would
> assume Java has much better string function support. But on the other
> hand PHP was written for the webmaster. It has lots of features that
> make using for rendering webpages a dream.
> 
> Feel free to add more.
> 
> We here at eWaddle are using PHP. Our goal is to reach a wide audience
> and maybe even people using lynx and other non-graphical browsers. As
> such, PHP is more than sufficient for the Job. We are using database
> access and
> have setup a news and discussion site for the open sources community.
> Come tryout our site. I encourage you to register, read and post.
> 
> Keep a watch on our site as we plan to release the eWaddle code as open
> source later this year.
> 
> Mark Lane
> Senior Programmer
> http://www.ewaddle.com
> 
> 
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
> <html>
> Brad Willcott wrote:
> <blockquote TYPE=CITE>&nbsp;
> <p>Hi there.
> <p>Firstly, this is NOT a challenge for a fight to the death, but a serious
> request for real-world experience advise. So no flames please.
> <p>I am trying to decide on a company standard for Web development. I am
> in the process of converting the company's servers from M$ NT Server 4
> to RedHat 6.2 Linux. This, ofcourse includes the Web server. I am pretty
> much sold on using Apache, and have already got an experimental server
> running with modules for: Perl, SSL, PHP and FrontPage 2000 Extensions.
> <p>My question to you folks, is what are the reasons for/against using
> Java (not Javascript) and/or PHP as my company's web development language?
> As yet I have no preferrance for either apart from PHP's Open Source philosophy.
> I am interested in information on such things as: Learning curve, development/maintenance
> time, flexibility, accessing back-end Oracle databases, simplicity, power
> functions, etc.
> <p>Perhaps you may feel it benefitial to use both. Why? Why not?
> <p>We will be developing Web sites of varied styles and complexities. Many
> accessing back-end databases requiring complex relationships and integrity
> checking. Some will have two views of the database: Client/Customer view,
> and Company/Data Maintenance view. I'm looking to develop browser based
> data systems.
> <p>So, I wish to thank you all, in advance for your input to this discussion.
> <p>Brad Willcott
> <br>Manager, Client Projects
> <br>EW Systems, Australia
> <br>+612 6232 6342
> <br>&lt;<a href="mailto:brad@ewsystems.com.au">brad@ewsystems.com.au</a>>
> <br>&nbsp;
> <br>&nbsp;
> <br>&nbsp;</blockquote>
> Well to start out with lets look at the similarities.
> <p>1. Both PHP and Java are interpreted. Meaning they have to be converted
> to machine code at Run-time unlike C which is precompiled and faster.
> <p>2. Both are easy to learn if you know C/C++ and easier than C.
> <p>3. Both can access your server and have built-in commands for doing
> so. You may need to install an Oracle library for Java, I don't know.
> <p>If someone can think of more similarities add them.
> <p>Differences
> <p>1. Java can be Run on either the server or the client. PHP pages are
> rendered prior to sending to the client so they are server side. But the
> client has to support Java.
> <p>2. Java can render pages as pop-up java applets on the client and offer
> more flexibility as they aren't limited to HTML, JavaScript, ActiveX stuff
> like browsers are. (I am distinquishing the difference between using Java
> engine for a applet as opposed to the browser itself minus the Java Engine.)
> <p>3. For Client side information that is using a continuous feed i.e.
> Stock Ticker. Java is the way to go. I have seen the PHP chat program and
> it is slow.
> <p>4. Security. PHP is more secure than Java. Java applets crash browsers
> and tend to be buggy. PHP on the other hand is considered pretty secure
> as the engine runs as part of the apache server. This means that Apache
> doesn't have to fork another program to render the pages serverside.
> <p>5. Open Source. Because PHP is open source you can compile new commands
> to speed up page rendering or add more PHP commands.
> <p>6. Object oriented. Despite PHP's limited Object Oriented support, it
> really isn't an object oriented programming language yet. Java is Object
> Oriented. Object Oriented programming is easier when you are working with
> a large number of programmers. It helps breakdown the problems into smaller
> units which can be written by individuals who don't have to know how the
> other programmers are writing their modules.
> <p>7. Learning curve. PHP is fairly easy to learn and easier than Java.
> <p>8. Graphics. PHP is slow at rendering graphics on the fly. As for Java,
> I haven't tried it but as an interpreted language I would assume that it
> would be slow as well unless.... See number 9.
> <p>9. Compiling. Well if you want, you can compile Java code serverside
> for better performance. I don't know of a PHP&nbsp;compiler as of yet.
> <p>10. Compatibility. If you use Java client side, you will run into compatibility
> problems. If the user is using one of the newer Browsers, they "may" have
> java enabled. An older browser probably doesn't have java support.
> <p>11. PHP isn't a very mature programming language. With PHP, you are
> able to do lots but it is still lacking really good string functions. I
> would assume Java has much better string function support. But on the other
> hand PHP was written for the webmaster. It has lots of features that make
> using for rendering webpages a dream.
> <p>Feel free to add more.
> <p>We here at eWaddle are using PHP. Our goal is to reach a wide audience
> and maybe even people using lynx and other non-graphical browsers. As such,
> PHP&nbsp;is more than sufficient for the Job. We are using database access
> and
> <br>have setup a news and discussion site for the open sources community.
> Come tryout our site. I encourage you to register, read and post.
> <p>Keep a watch on our site as we plan to release the eWaddle code as open
> source later this year.
> <p>Mark Lane
> <br>Senior Programmer
> <br><A HREF="http://www.ewaddle.com">http://www.ewaddle.com</A>
> <br>&nbsp;</html>
> 
> --------------19BE49B4315A4F1718400EDB--
> 

-- 
Tim Cross
NorthNet Internet Services
mailto:tcross@northnet.com.au
phone:+61 2 6772 5973