🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

Goldman-Sachs and other corrupting cabals.

In essence the financial sector was deregulated, they paid for this,
so that a financial elite could put us into debt so as to enrich them.

The more they lend you, the more you bid up the housing maket, the
more you have to borrow to outbid the couple next to you.  A shitload
of immigration helps the prices to go up even more.

You end up in debt, effectively a debt slave.

Now the tax payer is expected to bail out the banks bad investment.
Someone walks of with the money.

I bet you find much of the Greek debt is Greek millionaires buying
foreign buisinesses.

Most of icelands debts, (10 times its GDP) were just icelandic
businessmen borrowing from icelanding banks which had borrowed from
overseas banks to buy foreign businesses.


Default is the way forward.

On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

China, Japan, Germany, France

Probably in that order.

"Eunometic" <eunometic@yahoo.com.au> wrote

>Default is the way forward.

I agree, what other way is there? And, it's not a matter of if, but when 
will Greece throw in the towel.

Normally if a country can't pay its debt they lower the value of their 
currency. This makes their exports more attractive, and people flood in to 
take cheap holidays and shopping trips. Money starts moving again.

But how will Greece lower it's currency when they use the Euro. Simple, go 
back to the Drachma. But how well will that work? Will the Greeks rush the 
banks to take out their Euros the very moment plans to re-introduce the old 
currency are announced?

At what rate will the new Drachma be valued? If they float it, it will 
probably sink and inflation will rule. If they fix it and over value it, the 
currency will be black marketed.

No matter what happens, it'll all end up a friggin' nightmare!

This is a very good question and one that the main stream media always 
ignore. I get that it is China NOW, but how did it happen? And The USA has 
been in debt for a long time, it hasn't always been to China has it?

"Zappy" <kvrzap@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

China, Japan, Germany, France

Probably in that order.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 17:29:28 +1000, "Warren Smith"
<warren.smith@aol.com.au> wrote:

>
>"Eunometic" <eunometic@yahoo.com.au> wrote
>
>>Default is the way forward.
>
>I agree, what other way is there? And, it's not a matter of if, but when 
>will Greece throw in the towel.
>
>Normally if a country can't pay its debt they lower the value of their 
>currency. This makes their exports more attractive, and people flood in to 
>take cheap holidays and shopping trips. Money starts moving again.
>
>But how will Greece lower it's currency when they use the Euro. Simple, go 
>back to the Drachma. But how well will that work? Will the Greeks rush the 
>banks to take out their Euros the very moment plans to re-introduce the old 
>currency are announced?
>
>At what rate will the new Drachma be valued? If they float it, it will 
>probably sink and inflation will rule. If they fix it and over value it, the 
>currency will be black marketed.
>
>No matter what happens, it'll all end up a friggin' nightmare!
>
Won't for those in Greece that have money and don't pay tax

Petzl 
-- 
Australia's parliament needs to obey our Constitutions, the judiciary must apply the law!

On Sep 28, 3:57 pm, Eunometic <eunome...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> > Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> Goldman-Sachs and other corrupting cabals.
>
> In essence the financial sector was deregulated, they paid for this,
> so that a financial elite could put us into debt so as to enrich them.
>
> The more they lend you, the more you bid up the housing maket, the
> more you have to borrow to outbid the couple next to you.  A shitload
> of immigration helps the prices to go up even more.
>
> You end up in debt, effectively a debt slave.
>
> Now the tax payer is expected to bail out the banks bad investment.
> Someone walks of with the money.
>
> I bet you find much of the Greek debt is Greek millionaires buying
> foreign buisinesses.
>
> Most of icelands debts, (10 times its GDP) were just icelandic
> businessmen borrowing from icelanding banks which had borrowed from
> overseas banks to buy foreign businesses.
>
> Default is the way forward.

"Warren Smith" <warren.smith@aol.com.au> wrote in message 
news:j5uibs$8q6$1@dont-email.me...
>Will the Greeks rush the banks to take out their Euros the very moment 
>plans to re-introduce the old currency are announced?

Nope because governments always freeze currency transactions before making 
any such announcement.

> No matter what happens, it'll all end up a friggin' nightmare!

No doubt, and you can't default without creating a nightmare. No one will 
lend to you again for a long time!

Trevor.

"gordon" <gbrougham@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:ocAgq.3141$NR2.705@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com...
> This is a very good question and one that the main stream media always 
> ignore. I get that it is China NOW, but how did it happen?

It's what happens when you import more value than you export.

>And The USA has been in debt for a long time, it hasn't always been to 
>China has it?

China for quite a while, mostly Japan before that.

Trevor.

Eunometic wrote:
> On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this
>> money too? Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> Goldman-Sachs and other corrupting cabals.
>
> In essence the financial sector was deregulated, they paid for this,
> so that a financial elite could put us into debt so as to enrich them.
>
> The more they lend you, the more you bid up the housing maket, the
> more you have to borrow to outbid the couple next to you.  A shitload
> of immigration helps the prices to go up even more.
>
> You end up in debt, effectively a debt slave.
>
> Now the tax payer is expected to bail out the banks bad investment.
> Someone walks of with the money.
>
> I bet you find much of the Greek debt is Greek millionaires buying
> foreign buisinesses.
>
> Most of icelands debts, (10 times its GDP) were just icelandic
> businessmen borrowing from icelanding banks which had borrowed from
> overseas banks to buy foreign businesses.
>
>
> Default is the way forward.

Part of the assets of a bank is your mortgage and
loan collateral.

Chinese banking interests foreclosing on bankdebts and
taking posession of your house/car/furniture to be auctioned
off in a Zero credit environment at severely deflated `collapsed market`
 prices with the mint printing off dollars like toilet paper to try and
keep the place pumping.

Having a good paying job is no real protection iether.
As I saw in the early 90's,when a crashing property market devalues
property used as  colateral on a loan and the market value of the colateral
drops below the loan, the bank will require more or sufficient colateral.
to insure their loan or they havethe option of foreclosing.

So without missing a payment, you are vulnerable to have your collateral
sold at auction in a desperate market in a mortgagee sale.

Bankcard was introduced to Australia in about 1975. 

gordon wrote:
> This is a very good question and one that the main stream media always
> ignore. I get that it is China NOW, but how did it happen? And The
> USA has been in debt for a long time, it hasn't always been to China
> has it?
When Australia started selling it's Gold reserves to invest in the
share market, it made me wonder who was buying all these tons of Gold ...





> "Zappy" <kvrzap@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this
>> money too? Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> China, Japan, Germany, France
>
> Probably in that order. 

On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 12:44:56 +1000, Sekula wrote:

> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

They owe the money to the future. People have "loaned" governments money
with the collateral of future populations being taxed to pay off the debt.

All loans are a trade of something you have for cash, if you don't have
current assets then you - as a government or as a person - trade what you
in all probability will have.

It is when the confidence in the "probability" reduces or someone
figures out that the "probability" is based on total BS that the problems
begin.

Add in the distasteful fact that by manipulating the perceptions of that
probability enables some people to make lots of money (regardless of the
consequences) then you have the current state of the "market".

-- 
Regards, David.

David Clayton
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Knowledge is a measure of how many answers you have, intelligence is a
measure of how many questions you have.

If these country starts tightening their spending all these third world 
countries will starve. they are in control. without their spending all these 
third world countries will be in terrible recession. the borrower is now in 
control.

"Zappy"  wrote in message 
news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

China, Japan, Germany, France

Probably in that order. 

"mamat tongkang"  wrote in message 
news:VOSdnQ2TK7ehlxnTnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@westnet.com.au...

If these country starts tightening their spending all these third world
countries will starve. they are in control. without their spending all these
third world countries will be in terrible recession. the borrower is now in
control.

"Zappy"  wrote in message
news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.

China, Japan, Germany, France

Probably in that order.

We need to increase world food supplies by 70% by 2050 to cater for the 9 
billion that will be hungry. I think its way overdue to reduce birthrates 
everywhere to at least zero population growth, but no government has the 
guts to do it except the Chinese. 

On Sep 28, 6:41 pm, "gordon" <gbroug...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> This is a very good question and one that the main stream media always
> ignore. I get that it is China NOW, but how did it happen? And The USA has
> been in debt for a long time, it hasn't always been to China has it?

In the eighties it would have been to Europe. Regan turned the U.S.
from the biggest lender in the world to the biggest borrower in eight
years. Europe stopped buying U.S. debt after Clinton left office.
>
> "Zappy" <kvr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> > Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> China, Japan, Germany, France
>
> Probably in that order.

On Sep 28, 10:02 pm, "Trevor" <tre...@home.net> wrote:
> "Warren Smith" <warren.sm...@aol.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:j5uibs$8q6$1@dont-email.me...
>
> >Will the Greeks rush the banks to take out their Euros the very moment
> >plans to re-introduce the old currency are announced?
>
> Nope because governments always freeze currency transactions before making
> any such announcement.
>
> > No matter what happens, it'll all end up a friggin' nightmare!
>
> No doubt, and you can't default without creating a nightmare. No one will
> lend to you again for a long time!
>
> Trevor.

Poland is borrowing again isn't she? IIRC she defaulted some time in
the eighties.

On Sep 30, 3:02 am, "Sekula" <w...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "mamat tongkang"  wrote in message
>
> news:VOSdnQ2TK7ehlxnTnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@westnet.com.au...
>
> If these country starts tightening their spending all these third world
> countries will starve. they are in control. without their spending all these
> third world countries will be in terrible recession. the borrower is now in
> control.
>
> "Zappy"  wrote in message
>
> news:36798186-1288-4319-a749-eca3e56eb986@z20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> > Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> China, Japan, Germany, France
>
> Probably in that order.
>
> We need to increase world food supplies by 70% by 2050 to cater for the 9
> billion that will be hungry. I think its way overdue to reduce birthrates
> everywhere to at least zero population growth, but no government has the
> guts to do it except the Chinese.

Bullshit. The world already produces enough food to feed nine billion.
Most of us are just too fat. We also eat far too much meat which
wastes precious grain.

On Sep 28, 7:33 pm, Kangaroo Court Australia <nwn.webmas...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Sep 28, 3:57 pm, Eunometic <eunome...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 28, 12:44 pm, "Sekula" <b...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The US and Europe are sinking in debt. Who do THEY owe all this money too?
> > > Can't be 3rd world nations. China? You tell me.
>
> > Goldman-Sachs and other corrupting cabals.
>
> > In essence the financial sector was deregulated, they paid for this,
> > so that a financial elite could put us into debt so as to enrich them.
>
> > The more they lend you, the more you bid up the housing maket, the
> > more you have to borrow to outbid the couple next to you.  A shitload
> > of immigration helps the prices to go up even more.
>
> > You end up in debt, effectively a debt slave.
>
> > Now the tax payer is expected to bail out the banks bad investment.
> > Someone walks of with the money.
>
> > I bet you find much of the Greek debt is Greek millionaires buying
> > foreign buisinesses.
>
> > Most of icelands debts, (10 times its GDP) were just icelandic
> > businessmen borrowing from icelanding banks which had borrowed from
> > overseas banks to buy foreign businesses.
>
> > Default is the way forward.