🚀 go-pugleaf

fasgnadh wrote:
> martin wrote:
> 
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m5w92
> 
> Interesting popular science program, the open, democratic, majority 
> religious societies continue to produce most of the scientific 
> breakthroughs, the atheist regimes all failed catastrophically
> and the one that remains can't even feed it's people!
> 
> ergo  - Atheism has FUCK ALL to do with science!
> 
> Desperate atheists, without any scientific accomplishments
> of their own, abuse science by SELECTIVELY choosing bits
> they think support their beliefs [i.e. they START from their
> PRECONCEPTIONS and CONVICTIONS, and ADOPT ONLY the evidence
> they believe supports that view  - PROFOUNDLY UN-Scientific!!  B^]
> 
> For example, atheists have claimed Charles Darwin was an atheist,
> something Darwin himself, a churchgoer, EXPLICITLY DENIED.
> Despite this, atheists PRETEND a link between evolution, taught
> in the vast majority of Church schools around the world, and atheism.
> 
> There is none!
> 
> On the other hand, the current scientific theory for the creation
> of the Universe, the work of a Roman Catholic priest and professor
> of Physics, Monsignor Georges Lema�tre, correlates well with the
> ancient Genesis description, and atheism has never produced ANY
> hypothesis with such a high correlation to the current scientific
> viewpoint.
> 
> Here is yet another example of the irrelevance of atheism to science,
> or any other aspect of reality.. (which accounts for it's pitifully
> small number of adherents - fringe nutters ;-)
> 
>> Dr. Adam Rutherford editor on Nature takes a walk through the 
>> discovery of The Cell through Evolution and in the final episode 
>> around research laboratories investigating genetic splicing, making 
>> diesel with modified bacteria, 
> 
> ..Considerable work has been done MODIFYING living organisms,
> but there has been no success CREATING life..
> 
>  > and finally totally synthetic lifeforms.
> 
> of which there are none.    B^]
> 
> The Miller-Urey experiment was conducted in 1952, the results
> published the same year as Watson-Crick's ground-breaking work on DNA.
> 
> The latter has seen astonishing developments in the past half century,
> the former has not led to the creation of a single living cell.
> 
>> Interesting visit to Miller's lab where we meet a former student of 
>> his [Miller's] (now professor) who used a modern spectrum analyser on 
>> Miller's original results and found more like 50 amino acids rather 
>> than just the five Miller detected and published, and a more 
>> up-to-date look at research into abiogenesis.
> 
> Theists, of course, eagerly await the scientific replication of 
> abiogenesis, and a further confirmation of the Biblical description of
> Man being formed from the chemicals of the earth.
> 
> Just as the Big Bang theory describes a universe created in an instant,
> before which there was no MATTER whatsoever, no time, not even any 
> 'before' or any 'which'  ;-)  A concept for which neither atheists,
> nor science can ever provide a MATERIALIST explanation, because 'matter'
> had not been created.
> 
> 
>   ---------
> 
>  The Harmony of Science and Religion"
> 
>      "Science without religion is lame,
>       religion without science is blind."
> 
>        - Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
>          a Symposium", 1941
>                        ^^^^^
> 
>  Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired;  ;-)
> 
>       `Abdu'l-Bah�, in 1912, stated that religion without science
>        is mere superstition and that science without religion is
>        crude materialism;
> 
> "Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
>  can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
>  not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
>  the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
>  superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
>  he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
>  materialism."
>     'Abdu'l-Bah�, Paris Talks 1912
>                               ^^^^
>      (London: Bah�'� Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.
> 
>  "Bah�'u'll�h has declared that religion must be in
>  accord with science and reason. If it does not
>  correspond with scientific principles and the
>  processes of reason, it is superstition.
>  For God has endowed us with faculties by which
>  we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
>  reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
>  science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
>  confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
>  in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
>        - Abdul Baha
> 
> 
>   ---------
> 
> I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
> with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
> and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
> them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
> matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
> necessary demonstrations.
> 
>    - Galileo Galilei 1615.

A copy of this thread has been sent to atheist newsgroups

I predict the usual lame response will occur, where all the substance 
will be ignored, and the old crock about Galileo being persecuted
by the Church will be tarted up and trotted out yet again!  B^D

It's ALL the atheists have!!!!   B^D

Galileo, of course remained a committed theist, he understood that the
Church is merely a HUMAN organisation and capable of error, as the 
Church finally admitted, apologising posthumously to the Great Man.

B^D

> 
> ..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
> the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
> however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
> is lame, religion without science is blind.
> 
> - Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
> 
> The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
> are aware of it
> 
> -  Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
> 
> The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
> in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
> 
> - Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
> 
> I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
> 
> -  Louis Pasteur 1822-95
> 
> As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
> by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
> 
> -  Sir Isaac Newton  1642-1727
> 
> The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
> deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
> an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
> a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
> which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
> 
> -  Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
>      "My view of the World" 1918
> 
> There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
> Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
> religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
> all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
> and harmony.
> 
> -  Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
>      "Where is Science Going" 1918
> 
>      "Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
>          -Sir Arthur Eddington
> 
> Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
> soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
> possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
> wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
> superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
> he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
> materialism.
> 
> - 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
> 
> Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
> the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
> well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
> worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
> facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
> beyond question." (2)
> 
> George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
> the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
> complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
> the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
> status of the word." (3)
> 
> Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
> quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
> some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
> explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
> instead of nothing." (6)
> 
> John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
> a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
> Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
> never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
> indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
> 
> George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
> thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
> Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
> intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
> of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
> crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
> 
> Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
> Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
> state of scientific theory." (9)
> 
> Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
> event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
> delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
> permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
> 'supernatural') plan." (10)
> 
> Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
> has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
> 
> Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
> of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
> tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
> sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
> 
> Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
> our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
> divine." (13)
> 
> Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
> lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
> dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
> conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
> is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
> centuries." (14)
> 
> Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall� be able to
> take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
> the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
> ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
> God." (15)
> 
> Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
> career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
> atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
> writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
> Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
> straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
> them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
> logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
> has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
> Physics Of Christianity.
> 
> Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
> described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
> it."(17)
> 
> Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
> existence of God � the design argument of Paley � updated and
> refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
> evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
> requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
> Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
> teleological or design argument." (18)
> 
> Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
> in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
> our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
> 
> Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
> question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
> 
> Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
> however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
> conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
> 
> Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
> Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
> marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
> The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
> in the universe and in my own life." (22)
> 
> Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
> director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
> University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
> in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
> myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
> corner of God's plan." (23)
> 
> 
> 
>  Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
>  understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
>  superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
>  comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
> 
>  Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
>  Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
>  can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
>  billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
>  and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
>  contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
>  the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
>  of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
>  that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
>  extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
>  entirely unique." (25)
> 
> 
>  "The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
>  little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
>  ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
>  someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
>  does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
>  child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
>  mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
>  suspects." - Albert Einstein
> 
>  "The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
>  precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
>  generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
>  Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
>  I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
> 
>  "The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
>  knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
>  and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
>  even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
>  chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
>  unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
>  you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
>  (noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
>  University)
> 
> 
> Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
> ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
> 
> Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based 
> on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
> 
> Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world 
> view.
> 
> William Turner the "father of English botany"
> 
> John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms, 
> Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
> 
> Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids 
> was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous 
> scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was 
> based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous 
> astronomical observations,
> 
> Galileo Galilei
> 
> Ren� Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in 
> the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system 
> used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important 
> work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy 
> partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas 
> with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
> 
> Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem 
> (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
> 
> Nicolas Steno  a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
> 
> Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of 
> science could improve glorification of God.
> 
> John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis, 
> introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped 
> develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
> 
> 
> Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating 
> machine
> 
> Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and 
> mathematicians in history.
> 
> Thomas Bayes  Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
> 
> Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
> 
> Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
> 
> Leonhard Euler  mathematician and physicist,
> 
> Maria Gaetana Agnesi  mathematician
> 
> Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
> Michael Faraday
> 
> Charles Babbage
> 
> Gregor Mendel  "father of modern genetics"
> 
> Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
> 
> Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist 
> and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax, 
> chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the 
> development of the first vaccines.
> 
> 
> Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
> 
> Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
> 
> Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
> 
> John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes, 
> Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
> 
> Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
> 
> Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne 
> model and had a Moon crater named for him.  Gold Medal of the Royal 
> Astronomical Society,
> 
> Arthur Compton  Nobel Prize in Physics.
> 
> Georges Lema�tre  proposed the Big Bang theory.    Roman Catholic priest
> 
> Sir Robert Boyd  pioneer in British space science
> 
>  von Weizs�cker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizs�cker formula.
> 
> Charles Hard Townes 1964  Nobel Prize in Physics 1966  wrote The 
> Convergence of Science and Religion.
> 
> Freeman Dyson  the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis 
> Thomas Prize.
> 
> John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 
> Change  gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
> 
> Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and 
> Noncommutative geometry.
> 
> Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
> 
> Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research 
> Institute.
> 
> John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
> 
> Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of 
> Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
> 
> Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
> 
> Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for 
> evolutionary dynamics.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And that's just a partial list of WESTERN scientists who were believers.
> 
> 
> 
> There are many more Theist civilisations of astonishing accomplishment;
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
> 


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