🚀 go-pugleaf

Hi Ana!

Ananke wrote:

> On Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:06:51 +1000, Che Guava <che_guava@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >I have for some time thought that social Darwinism was based
> >on a crude simplification derived from an even cruder simplification:
> >
> >'survival of the fittest'
>
> The other aspect is cataclysmic change being a trigger for mutation and
> evolutionary change.  I think that fits Thorfinn's reference.
>
> >It seems, as we develop a more sophisticated understanding of
> >complex ecologies, that co-operation may in fact be the far more
> >important organising principle.
>
> Chaos theory?

Hmmmmm Big field.. As fascinating as I find interdependence, especially symbiosis,
but somehow less visceral.

Recursion seems to be more related to 'economy' and elegant efficiency...

Reminds me of a longish joke that really needs voice and body intonation..
but here goes..

Two irishmen are sitting in a pub, Sean and Paddy..

Sean begins a thoughtful monologue..

"You know Paddy every day its the same fucking thing..
you get up in the morning..
you get dressed and brush your hair
you have some breakfast and then you go off to work..
 you come home and have your dinner
then its down the pub for a pint or two and a bit of conversation..
then home to bed..

then the next day you do it all over again...
and you do this 30 to 40 years..  over and over

REPETITION...

REP-A-FUCKIN-TITION.....  "


Paddy:  "Sure, but your right there, Sean..  repetition! ..
            ....so what'll you have?

"Oh... same again thanks."


> Mandelbrot and fractal geometry always fascinate me with regards
> to that "organising principle" and the recurring generated patterns.

I don't want to get too far into New-Age-crystal-healing territory, not
in front of this crowd..  and I agree with Sagan about the New Superstitions
But...   ;-)

Having heard about Mandlebrot as an IBM fellow, (him, not me ;-)
I was generating lots of fractal images a decade or so ago.. I'm
not a cryptanalyst or designing compression algorithms.. I just love
'the music of the spheres'.

A mathematician friend who succumbed to schizophrenia,  and I
were discussing order and chaos...  and touched on 'randomness'
(a  metaphysical concept if ever I have encountered one)

The conversation turned to (more sci-fi) the story where
what was expected to be random radio noise from space exhibited a regularity
which turned out to be PI, encoded....  a reasonably sure and certain
sign of intelligence.

I speculated that were we to find some equally fantastic regularity imbedded in
nature, we might have an similar indicator of 'intelligence' and suggested something

like finding a perfect rectangle in the fractal images would be impressive.
I had already discovered many temple and bell like structures along the axis
if the mandlebrot set, where I expected to have the greatest chance of
symmetry.

About a week later I discovered this:

http://www.geocities.com/mild_colonial_boy/fracwindow.html

Of course, regular structures are found everywhere, crystals especially,
but this remains one of my favourite 'frames of reference'.   ;-)

Apologies for the low res, I've scanned it rather than look for my
old dos diskettes  (Recursive Realm I think it was) .
I might try and dig out if any one wants the Set reference points

Great for framing the thinking mans version of Desiderata

Nothing compares to a Cray real time fractal zoom!
If I could get one for the home entertainment centre I would
probably take Hallucinogens.. I'm old enough not to worry about
brain damage.  ;-)

Che
----
Does anyone know Fermat's second last theorem?


>
>
> >I was reminded of this watching Attenborough when he made a passing
> >comment
> >that we are only 20% us.
> >
> >By which he meant that the micro-organisms, bugs and bacteria with
> >whom we live in symbiosis (or are hosts to their parasitism, a form of
> >unconscious biological charity  ;-)  are the majority partner.  8^o
> >
> >Now some of these critters we can't live without..   gut bacteria
> >for example, are essential to digestion... but I thought this was a good
> >forum to seek some clarification on two related issues:
> >
> >Mitochondria..  I remember a sci-fi story that suggested these were
> >alien DNA sitting in the drivers seat of our cells piloting us all
> >toward
> >a civilization which would ultimately develop technology advanced
> >enough to return them home.   ;-)
>
> You've been watching too many cult movies on SBS....  ;-)

Not after Japanese Weatherwoman ! 8^o

>
> >If ever there was an opposite to anthropomorphism, that must be it.  B^)
> >
> >My question is..  are these mitochondria truly 'alien' i.e., not of our
> >DNA,
> >but like the other 80% Attenborough alluded to,  'the other'
> >
> >And what basically, is their function?
>
> Good question.  Is the 80% a guesstimate?  A rough average?  How is the
> behaviour of humans with altered mitochondria affected?  What percentage is
> water?
>
> >The other query is really a long shot.. I'm just hoping to encounter
> >someone with equally eclectic interests on this one..
> >
> >At at friends farm while housesitting I sampled much of their bookshelf
> >of an evening, by the old pot bellied stove.
> >
> >One story, (author and title noted but subsequently lost), described a
> >micro organism
> >which I found absolutely astonishing. (It was, I understood, a work of
> >non-fiction
> >of the genre.. 'strange but true').
> >
> >It described a bovine parasite.  during it's lifecycle it is excreted
> >into the soil,
> >from there it passes into ants.
> >Now at some point in its lifecycle it migrates to the ants central
> >nervous
> >system, and causes it to climb to the very top of grass stalks!  8^o
> >
> >>From there it has the best chance of being munched by grazing cows!!!
> >
> >Now I understand the principles of natural selection.
> >I subscribe to the theory of evoluution..
> >
> >but bugger me dead..  modifies ant nervous system in such a way as to
> >override ant control,  causing behavioral change which amounts to
> >turning it into a vehicle for takeoff???
> >
> >Q1  anyone else aware of this life cycle
>
> Yes, similar.
>
> >Q2 Anyone know the name /  author of the book?
>
> No.
>
> >Q3 Anyone got similar stories.  (non-fiction preferred ;-)
>
> Yes.  A story from a mate at Reuters was passed on to me some months ago.  A
> researcher in France found that a parasite, Toxoplasmosis gondii, causes altered
> behaviour in rats, which makes them more likely to be eaten by cats, which are
> the vector for spread of T. gondii.
>
> In other animals, the parasite is contained by the immune system in minute
> cysts, like thousands of tiny hydatid cysts.... and if ever the host's immune
> system is compromised, by other illness, sustained corticosteroid treatment or
> whatever, the parasite is no longer contained and the disease known as
> Toxoplasmosis results.  All of a sudden, your kid who has happened to pat the
> neighbour's cat, has asthma and goes on puffers for a couple of weeks, is in IC.

And Bush is worried about missile defence?  My fear is
these critters.. or biological rust.

I think I liked the old days.. when scary things LOOKED scary.. big teeth, claws..

now we know death and danger are often invisible...

> Other critters which can fill the life cycle are birds, mice.... anything which
> might be exposed to the parasite, which can remain in the soil for some months
> in temperate areas, and be eaten by a cat.
>
> http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/toxoplasmosis/factsht_toxoplasmosis.htm
>
> I don't think cats are clean.  ;-) I hate the vermin.

Another european assault on the ecosystem.

>
> >Thanks
>
> CDCs might have other info which could lead you to your Bovine/ant cycle,
> although a brief search didn't turn up anything for me.  Veterinary dictionaries
> perhaps?
>
> Ana