🚀 go-pugleaf

John F. Haugh II writes
> In article <1992May11.210109.4782@pencom.com> gad@pencom.com writes:
> >I just wanted to throw out one data point here. I own a Mazda Navajo and
> >have driven it for 20k miles.
> 
> My wife owns a Ford Explorer (4DR/PS/PB/ABS/PW/PD/V6/JVC, etc. $18K) and
> we now have 12K on it.  It has been regularly serviced and operates
> flawlessly.  It gets 17 city and 23 highway miles per gallon.  Sounds
> like you need to trade that Mazda in for a Ford ...
> 
> >                            Contrasting this with the reliability and
> >performance that I have received from other makes including: Mazda, Honda,
> >Acura, Datsun/Nissan, BMW, and Porsche. I rate the Japanese 1st, Germans
> >2nd, and US a distant 3rd. I'm not familiar with Italian, British, Swedish,
> >Yugoslavian, or French makes so I don't know where they fit. 
> 
> You mean, contrasting this with the reliability of Japanese cars whose
> engines don't last 1/3 as long as American, whose bodies rust through
> years earlier, whose cars don't survive collisions and whose cars cost
> more to repair?  If you don't believe me on the first one, go check out
> Consumer Reports and your local insurance agent for the last three.  If
> you don't believe me, Consumer Reports and your local insurance agent,
> check out the Florida Attorney General who just concluded that American
> quality is tied for first with the Japanese.  This is based on actual
> consumer complaints, not perceived quality.  (The Europeans were last,
> by the way.)
> 
> If you really want to bad mouth American cars, I suggest you go drive
> through the public housing areas in town.  What you will find, almost
> universally, is old American cars.  Why?  Because those big old cars
> that don't last or run right are sitting down there, running well and
> lasting forever.  

Running well would be stretching the truth just a bit John. IMHO,
American cars do last forever, in that they continue to maintain the
ability to propagate their mass down the highway with passengers. I
don't believe that they do it safely or efficiently. A quick pass through
the public housing areas will demonstrate this. Yes, those are old
American cars that are still running, and most of them are smog belching
death-traps.

> It is only the middle and upper class who has this
> love affair with non-American cars.  People who can't afford to buy
> cars that don't last, buy American.  As much as you want to complain
> about that Navajo, on average, that chassis is one of the most
> reliable vehicles out there - and both the reviews from the consumer
> magazines and the sales figures bear that out.

Hey John, I'm not complaining, I'm documenting facts. No where in my
article did you see me say I hate my Navajo or voice any dislike.
I submitted some basic facts for the review of the readers of the
net, as I said, as a single data point. No more, and no less.
 
> The difference between American and Japanese cars is simple.  American
> cars don't have gadgets and Japanese cars do... 

You may consider them gadgets, but I find quite a few things that I
personally like in the Japanese cars. Subtle things like the placement
and the feel of switches and controls. Niceties like map lights that
can be switched on and off independently of the cabin lights. 
> 
> >I don't stereotype the entire US auto industry based on my experiences,
> >but I would be lying if I said that my experiences don't weigh heavy
> >in my choices when I buy an automobile. When shopping recently for a 
> >new car for my wife, we both agreed to stay clear of the US makes. 
> 
> You made an incredible mistake.  

John. you're telling me that I made a terrible mistake by relying on 
all of my past experience in the process of making a very expensive
purchase? I think not. As I alluded to in my previous article, my
personal experience with American made cars, Ford in particular, have
not been very good. On the other hand, my personal experiences with
Japanese made cars has been very good.

> 
> >I just wanted to add, I believe that Mazda is selling the Navajo
> >under pressure from its majority stock holder (Ford). Ford knows
> >that some people are attracted to Japanese makes even when it is
> >really the same as a US product. On your other points: a pathfinder
> >MSRPs at ~$26k pretty loaded, the Toyota SR5 lists at ~26K and my
> >Navajo MSRPed at >$23k loaded. Less expensive, but not half price.
> >The Ford Explorer is comparably priced. (Note: you can get a cheap
> >Explorer by deleting all the options but then you're comparing apples
> >and oranges) As for the quality, well, I take exception.
> 
> I don't know what you got in your Navajo for $23K, but we got a well
> equipped 4DR Explorer for $18K.  A base model Explorer goes for about
> $14K.  

Have you taken it in to get the transmission fixed so it won't roll
away while in park? Also the rear bumper, part of that super chassis,
needs to have reinforcements installed so that it doesn't fall off 
when towing. Check out Consumer Reports for more detailed info.

On the pricing issue, the Navajo that I purchased has the following:
4 wheel drive, leather interior, towing package, sunroof, basically
every available option. Actually priced the exact same setup at Ford
and it came out more expensive to buy the Ford... (by over $500). I
won't even digress into the discussion of dealers, suffice to say I
am VERY happy with how I'm treated at the Mazda dealership, sales
and service (and I HATE SalesSlime). 

> Oh - and one last item - what was the country of origin of that
> broken radio you had replaced?  As most audiophiles will tell you,
> American made radios neither break nor are cheap enough to go in
> cars.  And yes, my Japanese made car radio has also broken, twice.
> I went looking for an American made car radio, which is how I know
> they don't exist.  I'll probably replace it with a 2nd place
> German made car radio that will last forever ;-)

I'm no audiophile, but I did pay my bills thru school working in
a stereo repairshop. I agree that American made highend equipment 
is good, but the low end stuff sucked, to be frank. Specifically,
Philco and Delco. 

If you would like a more "professional" opinion on the auto make
issue, I'd recommend stopping by Anderson Lane Body Shop and having
a chat with the owner, Travis. You want find a more resolute supporter
of American cars. He'll bend your ear for as long as you're willing to
listen talking about why the Japanese are kicking our butt. He'll 
point out things like modular design, closer fit tolerances, etc.
I sat through it, and found his opinion to be very insightful.

I would love for American cars to beat the Japanese (Europe et al)
in the marketplace. I hate to see America lose on any front,
especially economic. We can institute stricter trade regulations,
tariffs, etc. OR we can beat them the right way: by producing a
superior product. Product Patriotism is the worse thing we can do
right now. Until US manufacturers are competitive on the global
market, we'll be losing the war. 

George
--
		      George A. Durden			
		  	.5K EX Pilot
		       Unix Mercenary
DoD #0039	     "No Risk, No Rush"		CMRA #106