🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <fred_sCo9tIx.JyE@netcom.com>,
Frederick Scott <fred_s@netcom.com> wrote:
)doosh@netcom.com (Tom Holub) writes: 
)
)>In article <fred_sCo9Mqo.9Iy@netcom.com>,
)>Frederick Scott <fred_s@netcom.com> wrote:
)>)doosh@netcom.com (Tom Holub) writes: 
)(concerning occupying the middle of a left hand turn lane)
)>)>I would think this is the most visible position possible.  And I don't
)>)>see why it's asinine, it doesn't delay the cars any more than #1 does.
)
)>)I disagree.  A matter of opinion, I guess -  but I think it can at times,
)>)depending on how long the line is and how far back the bike and the cars
)>)following it are.  If the bike's in front of the line, I agree it's probably
)>)no problem because a bike gets up to speed much faster than a car.
)
)>In any case, I am delaying cars no more on my bike than I would if I
)>were in a car in the same left-turn lane, so I don't see why it's a problem.
)
)Well, it may be that you ride much faster than the average biker or it may
)be that you drive much slower than the average motorist.  In the former
)case, I guess I wouldn't mind being behind you.  In the latter case, you're
)going to irritate the hell out of me if I get behind you regardless of what
)vehicle you're operating.

You yourself said that bikes get up to speed faster than cars.  If I'm in
the left turn lane I will be going at the speed of cars (who can't speed
up too much because they're making a left turn, right?)  When I've completed
my turn there will be plenty of room to pass me.  Delay here is a non-issue.

)>Because it's illegal to pass on the right, and most people do not signal
)>right-hand turns.
)
)WRT to people signaling their turns, you're correct - which is why I keep
)my eye on them.  (Recall I didn't specify that I only watched people
)SIGNALING their turns.  I said I wathched them if they looked like they
)had any intention of turning - this includes all traffic that hasn't begun
)accelerating straight through the intersection.)  None the less, I've never
)encountered a situation I would consider dangerous nor any "near-misses", etc.

Then you've been lucky.  Perhaps I'll get into armchair physics mode later
and show you the fallacy of "watching" traffic for right-hand turns as 
a safety measure.  The few seconds passing on the right saves you do not
warrant breaking the law and putting yourself in such danger.

)>If you want to pass a slow-moving vehicle, you pass it
)>on the left, whether you're driving a car, bicycle, or horse-drawn carriage.
)...
)>Which is why bike lanes are dangerous; they encourage this sort of behavior.
)>The proper way to deal with this intersection is to stay behind the line
)>of cars or to merge into the line of cars and pass right-turning cars 
)>on the left.  Anything else is dangerous and illegal. 
)
)YECH!  Changing lanes and moving out into motor vehicle traffic is likely
)to be far more dangerous than simply rolling by the slower vehicle on the
)right.  A bike is different from car.  It fits into smaller place, reacts
)faster, has better vision, and is harder to see.  If you're not willing to
)admit that these variations make a difference, then we're simply not going to
)agree on this.

Run, don't walk, and get a copy of Effective Cycling or some other publication
which includes a study of bicycle traffic safety.
 -Tom