🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <47cepv$hos@fountain.mindlink.net>, George_Slade@mindlink.bc.ca 
says...

>martin_burger@mindlink.bc.ca (Martin Burger) wrote:

>> 1. We looked at how to deal with this and Toshiba
>> suggested if the topography was right to go with
>> an integrated pumped storage (over 90% efficient).
>> They have a good system for this its used in
>> many areas.  However we found as well, that most
>> of the grids are in fact energy deficient like our
>> own here in BC.  Lots of output capacity but still
>> forced to buy energy from Alberta and the States.

>You seem to have lost the question.  How do you deal
>with inconsistant tides.  What exactly is inttegrated
>pumped storage?  How does it work? Do you include it
>in your cost estimates? 

Good Question!

>You also brought up that we are energy deficient in B,C.
>then why are we worried about the failure of the Columbia
>River deal.  If we need more power should we not be all 
>to happy to get access to the power we were previously 
>selling state side?

Only the NDP is in a panic, because they already spent the money.
I really don't think we are deficient in any way for the next 20
years or so, depending on who's etimates you go by.

>> 2.0 There is recreational value in the reservoirs
>> created by damming our rivers but it comes with an
>> unacceptable cost in many respects.  To the south
>> of us they are starting to recognize that a few
>> years of cheap electricity is not worth the loss
>> of biodiversity, salmon etc.  Dam decommissioning
>> has started in some regions and more will come
>> down in the future.  
 
>> Prime wild BC salmon goes for some $50 dollars on
>> the street in Tokyo and it will only be a few
>> years before it's that price here on
>> Robson Street.  Prime salmon is a gift from the
>> creator and as a precious staple in humanity's
>> food basket we should regard it as something to
>> preserve for our grandchildren's grandchildren. 
>> Some say trashing it for a few boaters is too
>> much.  

Amen!

>Salmon can be dealt with via fish ladders, work fine.
>our problem with salmon have zero to do with dam's
>and 100% to do with other enviromental issues.  I love
>my salmon like the next guy, but lets go after the 
>right problem.   

I'll have to disagree with you here, George. Fish ladders are
no panacea. Many salmon miss the ladders, etc. Worse yet, few
fry are able to survive the downstream journeys through turbines
or spillways, etc. Look at the Columbia: the Bonneville spends
megabucks on salmon enhancement, with pathetic results.

>> While the Davis
>> Hydro Turbine has a very light ecological foot
>> print there should be a cautious policy on the
>> first few installations put in place to avoid
>> locating the tidal fences in hyper sensitive
>> areas.  
>> 
>> There are plenty to start with that are barren and
>> with little use conflicts.  Typically we want at
>> least five knots of water velocity

>You want at least 5 knots of tidal current.  Well on the 
>south coast that leaves you with, Active Pass (up to 9
>knots) Polier Pass (up to 7 knots) Gabriola Pass (up to
>7 knots)

Skookumchuck. Check it out, George, it is QUITE a place!

>Lots of passes around Desolation Sound.  To the
>best of my knowledge there is no place on the B.C. coast 
>where you get a 5 knot or better tide and you will not
>affect some form of boating activity.

Affect it, possibly. As one boater to another: so what?
The Ocean is very big, and was not created just for boaters.

I'm more worried about ecological impact, which SEEMS to
be minimal - but is worth investigating. At any rate, I
don't think that the ecological impact of boaters 
(esp. powerboats) is anything approaching benign.

Hydro dams are in a whole other class when it comes to
ecological impact.

>Also remember 
>on the charts the tides indicated are MAXIMUM EBB or FLOOD
>not average or normal.  IE they will be the speed of the 
>water when the tide is moving from a maximum low to a maximum
>high or the other.  Since this only happens about 10 days a 
>year, you seem to have a bigger problem.  
>I have been boating for over 25 years and I don't know of
>any place on the B.C. Coast where you will find a flow
>better than 5 knots that lasts for more than a few hours a day.
>
>Exactly where are you going to place these things?

At the risk of seeming repetive (;-) I vote we try putting one
in front of the Gravel Pit across from Egmont.

-- Maarten
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