🚀 go-pugleaf

dean@dc.daiwa.com (Dean Storey) wrote:

>: you still have the option of organizing an
>: "Honest Joe Party" and show all of them how it is really done.


>Karl & Ken
> 
>Think you are being a bit rough on Tor here as he is echoing the sentiments 
>of a lot of voters out here.  I know I feel likewise.  

>I know after Vanderzalm all I wanted was a government free of scandel and 
>one that would work on the deficit and taxes.  Which were my concerns at the 
>time. I know other voters had other concerns but these were mine.

>What did my vote get me.  More sleazy politics and a bigger deficit. 

I guess it would depend on how carefull you are with your vote, doesn't it?
In my view, the vote is not only a right but above all a resonsibility.  If
you use your vote to vote AGAINST somebody, you are likely to end up with
somebody you will not like any better than the guy you voted to get out.

>have to wonder along with Tor about power and politics and will it always 
>corrupt.  Can you believe anything a party or politician says or promises?

Depends on whether I beleive that the person who is making the promise is
trustworthy and whether what he is promising is believeable.  I knew that
when Harcourt was promising a balanced budget, no matter how he qualified
it, it was pure bullshit.  I knew that when Harcourt promised an open
government, it was pure bullshit.

I didn't vote to get the Socreds out, I voted to get the Liberals in.  That
was why I joined the Liberal Party in the first place. Two nobodies were
running for them in Richmond in 1986 and they started their campaigning a
year before.  That was when I decided that I had enough of the nedless
sniping and mud slinging in the House and figured it would be good if these
folks would get in as well.  The fact that I agreed with a great majority
of what they were saying was a bonus.

>This current situation with the NDP is most distressing and I agree with 
>your comment that they "Don't get it".   

Thank you.  Even I get sometimes tired of being right all the time.  :-)

>You cant legislate honesty and character,  you 
>either have it or you dont.  To me all the NDP are doing right now is 
>pulling back into damage control mode and all decisions or actions are 
>based on getting re-elected and calling the election at the right time 
>and not resolving this issue.

That's the problem with theway Curly has been handling the Nanaimo affair
from the word go.  If he had stood up and said "Holy smokes, people, I had
no idea of this, I'll find out everything there is to know and lay it out"
An then went and cleaned house with a steel broom, people were wiling to
give him the benefit of the doubt and let him do the clean up, more or less
in peace, as long as they could see that he really is doing some serious
housecleaning.

He didn't do that and he blew it.  He could have had this affiar done and
over with 2 years ago, early in his term.  Then he wuld still have the
luxury of picking his own time to call another election.  With the NCHS
affair popping up all the time and him having no control over it, he also
has no control over the timing of the election.  His pretending to do
"business as usual" is being interpreted by most as trying to run away from
the issue and not deal with it.

>Got to 
>wonder if his initial apology was sincere or part of the big plan.  I 
>guess the job and power are more important than your principles.

No, I believe that Schreck was sincere in his apology. It does take balls
to lay yourself open like that.  But saying "sorry" means nothing unless
you follow it up with some decisive action to correct the problem.  And so
far I have seen nothing coming from the Socialist side that would convince
me that that is happening.

>I think Tor's only problem is he mistakenly thinks the problem is with us 
>who vote rather than the political parties and politicians who promise us 
>change, integrity and action on issues but never deliver once in power.  

Thentrick is to question the parties and particularly the candidates, even
before the campaign starts.  and question them on everything.  The telling
part comes when you see how they deal with issues of which they know little
or nothing.  I have actually seen a few candidates who honestly admitted
that they do not know anything about the issue and would like to hear your
views on it.  Most will try to bullshit their way through it and try their
best to believe their own words.  If they do it to you before the vote,
what can you expect from them afterwards?

>The federal reform party had the same problem with the perks in Ottawa 
>after they arrived.  After campaining against them found some of them a 
>little to hard to refuse.

Bingo!  You have to ask yourself "how believeable are their promises and
policies?  If they did get elected, could they really pull off what they
are promising?"  In the case of the federal Deformers, the answer is a
resounding "NO Bloody Way, can't be done if you take into account the
current system"

>So Karl and Ken, excuse the ignorance of Tor and myself and I am sure 
>many others who wonder who the hell we can believe anymore and are there 
>any politicians or parties who say what they mean, and most importantly, 
>mean what they say.  Sorry if our disappointment and disgust is showing 
>through we took them at face value.  

There's no need to apologise.  Your feelings are yours and you do have a
reason why you feel that way.  But you should also recognize that all you
know about politicians is what you see of them on the tube or what you read
in the papers.  get involved and get to know them up close.  You will be
able to tell much easier who are pretty decent eggs are who are the real
shits.

>No Karl dont need anymore Political Parties just some principled leaders 
>who make promises and keep them.

>Problem is you cant find out until you put em in power.  So I guess we 
>continue to take them at face value and maybe one day we'll get lucky.

The more people will get actively involved in the process the harder it
will get for the shits to float to the top.


Karl Pollak
Bottom Line Productions           Canadian Infomaticon BBS,
Richmond, British Columbia        Fido 1:153/965  (604) 275-9579