🚀 go-pugleaf

On Sat, 9 Jun 2001, Eric© wrote:
> 
> Sure.  Look up names like 'Jerry Franklin'.  Ask any forester who 
> 'Hamish' is.  Check out Ken Lertzman at SFU.

Would that be European Foresters, or the north american brand who got an
unexpectedly rough reception from their european counterparts after the
boycot advocates showed the evidence of what was really going on in BC
forests?

> 
> These guys made their names studying these ecosystems.  These guys and 
> their research are so well known in the ecology and forestry community 
> that there is no reason why I need to provide references to any 
> particular documentation.

Translation, he made it up and they don't like the reception their PR
motivated "research" gets from real forestry scientists. 

> 
> You go tell Lertzman that his life's work is a sham.  Shit, that's what 
> the greedy asshole Suzuki is doing.

Whole lot of projection going on here, isn't there.
>  
> > > * it states that clearcut logging "destroy[s] BC's forests and
> > > biodiversity.  Another complete lie.
>  
> > The claim that tree nurserys use enough genetic material to retain diversity
> > in the trees of the forest seems false to me - they only plant a couple of
> > species after all - but what preserves all the non-tree species formerly
> > found in the clear cut?
> 
> I'm afraid I don't understand your argument, Brent.  Nurseries grow 
> little trees, and they do that with seed captured from the forest.  There 
> has never been a logical argument to suggest that they are introducing 
> genetic purity.

I guess this "scientist" isn't very well informed about the cloning
process used to produce millions of clones, or with the selective breeding
program used to replant whole areas with a few carefully selected
"superior"  trees. Ie. superior in the sense that they may make more fibre
for mills, but not neccesarily superior in their ability to resist
insects, disease, or adverse weather. 

> 
> > > * "Today more than half of BC's coastal rainforest has been lost, and
> > > what remains is immediately threatened."  Two utter lies in one sentence.
>  
> > Do you have any references that show the first statement to be wrong. I live
> > on Vancouver Island. The percentage of old growth forest left on the south
> > end of the island is far below half.
> 
> Exactly.  And the percentage of old growth forest left in Vancouver is . 
> . . . ?

Less than 15%. The few remaining areas of old growth are surrounded by
vast areas of clear cut when you check it out on satellite photos.

> 
> Brent: if someone posits a particular statement, surely I don't have to 
> prove them wrong?  Don't they have to provide the documentation first?
> 
Duh, if you post a particular statement don't you have to provide the
documentation first.

> In Canada we have 4 ecosystems that are threatened.  Here's a challenge: 
> name those four, tell the NG where they are, and for bonus points 
> describe why they are endangered.
>  
> 
> > Er, it is my perception that the better educated areas actually have a lower
> > birth rate. Got any evidence for your argument?
> 
> Which argument is that?  
>  
> > If you are suggesting that the industry side of this debate is above the
> > selective use of statistics and misleading statements to justify their
> > position, then I respectfully suggest that people should be very careful
> > about believing anything you say in defence of that industry.
> 
> Not at all.  I am simply proving that Suzuki is lying.  

Try again, all you have proved is that you lie.

>  
> > At least three times in the last 20 years the industry has recanted all of
> > its past practices and sworn that its new practices are environmentally
> > friendly and sustainable. I expect to continue happening in the future. I
> > have no reason to believe they are any better now than they were in the
> > past.
> 
> I know a guy who runs a woodlot at Gray Creek,  I know a guy who runs one 
> at Meadow Creek, one at Kaslo, one near Salmon Arm.  I know guys who bid 
> on big licences.  And the central point is that they all care about the 
> forest.  They aren't pinstriped moguls trying to steal our birthright.
> 
> Why don't you tell me what you have done to protect one of the four most 
> endangered ecosystems in Canada?
> 
> While you're at it, describe what you've done to ensure that Washington 
> State tourists won't find Victoria tampons washing up on their beaches.
> 
> E.Schild
> haffabee@usa.net
> 
>  
> 
>