🚀 go-pugleaf

Hello there Thomas Weigle !
On 22-Jan-97   01:04:06, you wrote about Re: Re- Bad HTML / frame usage :

> In article <5c1s1h$5do@cc.tut.fi>, p116711@cc.tut.fi (Tero Paananen) wrote:

>> In <weigle-ya023180002001972352440001@news.algonet.se>
> weigle@snip-to-mail.algonet.se (Thomas Weigle) writes:
>>
>> The multitude of excuses for bad web design never ceases to amaze me,
>> it's like a flooding river of drivel that never stops.

> I agree. One of the worst excuses? "It is a standard!" spoken by people who

  Standard: Whole characteristics and norms to which one can refer for
            products or values of the same nature.

  If you don't like the word "standard", I would say "It's the most
  acceptable (reliable) *free-for-all* guidelines in an attemp to
  satisfy everyone's needs and to make new technologies as accessible
  as possible to most of them, if not all.".

  Does this seems a good "excuse" to you ?

> are in a clear minority. Standards are not set by minorities. That's what
> we usually refer to as oppression if we don't like 'em.

  Minorities are always complaining...
  Minorities are disturbing our comfort...

  I *your* wish is to ignore, silence, or get rid of minorities;
  *my* wish is to get rid of marginalisation.  (Is this correct english ?)

>> Oh? Every site needs Java and Shockwave and a few QuickTime sound files?

> Not every site. I said that. A site entirely based on information that
> users will be willing to read although it's badly formatted and designed
> will not suffer from a static design, but any site that is trying to *get*
> *new* customers on the Web will suffer if their user base happens to be
> among the people with new Netscape and Internet Explorer browsers, people
> who don't even know what HTML is. And this is not an uncommon thing.

  "COME IN MY WONDERLAND ! EVERYTHING IS EASY, FUNNY, COOL !  THERE'S
   SUN, THERE'S HAPPINESS, THERE'S...

   What ?  You don't even have one dollar ???

   Er... This wonderland is not for you, you need dollars to enter here.
   Come back later and be welcome if you have some."

>
>> And once again, the multimedia humbug red-herring "grey background text
>> only" as an only alternative for your "lookie-here-mom,
>> Java-without-hands".

> It was an example. If we happen to go back to white pages and black text,
> set as if it were a pocket book, that's what I would design pages like. But
> it won't happen so I won't have to bother about that.

  "What ?  There are still people reading black text on white background ?
   in our century ??? (warf, warf)

   Oh yes, THOSE people...
   They are very few...  it's not important."

>> What the **** are you talking about? Explain what relevance one or even
>> two browsers have on a _World Wide_ Web?

> Yes. *World Wide* Web. And of this *world*, 70-95% of all users are
> experienced to one of these two browsers. These browsers are more the WWW
> than are any consortium to most people.

  "Blind people ?  No, they are not human !"

> As for the W3C's role, take a look at some of the member companies. Adobe
> has Pagemill, which generates terrible HTML; Apple are proud of the BMW USA
      ^^^^^^^^
   Use something else   
  

> site, which is not exactly friendly to old browsers; Ericsson are working

  Why not kindly tell them this ?
  (have a look at http://www.axismundi.org/Cf/spiraea/amigaphil/report.html)

> with Icon Media Lab (which naturally makes them enemies of the WWW,
> right?); IBM are working with Razorfish, who never fear using the latest
> stuff; Microsoft has Internet Explorer; Netscape has Navigator and
> Communicator; NeXT are a part of Apple; Siemens-Nixdorf are working with
> Icon Media Lab; Sony are working with Studio Verso and David Siegel, as
> well as with Razorfish; Sun allowed Netscape to call it JavaScript and
> would love a more interactive Web.

> That's just a few that I can come up with offhand. You have misconceptions
> about the importance of *your* World Wide Web.
                          ^^^^^^
                          AAAArrrgghh !!! (the forbidden word ;-) )
                          
  *O U R*  World Wide Web !  WWW is a common place for EVERYONE !
  It's up to *us* to share it in peace and tolerance.

>> Might not be lynx, but it sure as hell might be a text browser used by
>> the Chinese...you know, the country with 1/4th of the population in the
>> world. Yes, development countries are BOUND to hit the web some day and
>> believe me, they will NOT have multimedia terminals at their homes. If
>> your site ignores them (provided it is of interest to a world wide
>> audience), you will lose and you will lose BIG!

> Might be. Yup. Because all those 600 million oppressed farmers really will
> be able to pick up a computer. Get real. China already have Internet
> access. Some of them. This Internet access is not fully free, y'know. For
> example, USA Today, CNN, and similar sites are censored.

  sic

>> The day software run on MS-Windows will run my house is the day I will
>> relocate myself to a place with no electricity, no computers and no
>> MS-Windows.

> So? Now you sound like you really will make a difference. People say that
> about Microsoft every day, and refuse to use any MS product. Has it really
> made a difference?

  Not that much as long as there are still a lot of people thinking
  Microsoft is THE way to go just because so many people already follow it.

> //thomas
> --
>: Web Designer at Icon Media Lab and generally a nice guy too.  :
>: Work: thomas@iconmedialab.se -- <http://www.iconmedialab.se/> :
>: Home: weigle@algonet.se -- <http://www.algonet.se/~weigle/>   :
>: Opinions expressed are mine and not those of my employer.     :
> .................................................................


          Phil.
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