🚀 go-pugleaf

                            THE BLIND NEWS DIGEST

                                 Issue # 940

                          Wednesday, June 16, 1993

Today's Topics:


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                         Re: software for fax modems
                            Re: advantedge here!
                              Arkenstone reader
                        Re: Reading edge and advantag
                             Re: Advantage Here!
                        Why Not "Visually Oriented?"
                         Why not visually oriented?
                              Checkbook program
                        Re: Questions from a new dog
                      Re: questions from a new dog user


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Subject: Re: software for fax modems
From: Al.Gayzagian@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Al Gayzagian)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

I am using QlIIFAX which came with the internal modem which in turn
came with my computer.  It works quite nicely with speech.  If you
are interested, I'll dig up the name and address of the
manufacturer.

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Internet: Al.Gayzagian@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: advantedge here!
From: Peter.Scialli@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Peter Scialli)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/432 - The Idea Link, Wheaton MD


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Ann,
  Neither of the packages, Open Book or Reading AdvantEdge will run on a
  286. For open Book, you need a 386 or higher with 4 megs of RAM and
  for AdvantEdge you need a 386 or higher with 8 megs of RAM.
  Arkenstone does have their "600" system which consists of a separate
  recognition card and software.  That system will run on a 286.

     Peter

 * JABBER v1.1 * ShrinkWrap Computer Products: 800-377-0774
===
 * KMail 2.94g - The Idea Link -

--
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Internet: Peter.Scialli@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Arkenstone reader
From: Peter.Scialli@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org (Peter Scialli)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/432 - The Idea Link, Wheaton MD


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Isaac,
  The $4995 system is a stand-alone reading machine which is delivered
  and installed, plus training for someone who is not interested in
  computers as such.  Since you have a computer, and you are computer
  literate, you would be wise to buy the software for $995 and one of
  those scanners for $400 if they are still available.   You will need a
  386 and 4 megs of RAM.
  I think the J&R ScanJets come with the proper software.

     Peter

 * JABBER v1.1 * ShrinkWrap Computer Products: 800-377-0774
===
 * KMail 2.94g - The Idea Link -

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!432!Peter.Scialli
Internet: Peter.Scialli@f432.n109.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Reading edge and advantag
From: Stephen.Baum@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Baum)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Debbie. Both The Reading Edge and The Reading AdvantEdge are from
Xerox Imaging Systems, formerly known as Kurzweil Computer Products. If
you want brochures, demonstration diskettes, or a demonstration from a
representative, you can call us at 1-800-248-6550.

The Reading Edge is a self-contained, portable, reading machine. It is
one box, weighing about 24 pounds. That box has a book edge scanner,

a small keyboard, the electronics which run the show, and speech
synthesis. For the technically inclined, the CPU is a Cypress 25
Megahertz SPARC, and the system has eight megabytes of RAM, two of ROM,
and 128K of non-volatile flash memory. The speech for English is
DECtalk, for other languages it is Infovox. Note that Infovox and
DECtalk are supported with the same hardware - no changes are necessary
except to pull a memory card out of its PCMCIA slot, and stick in a
different one. The OCR is our own - currently release 7.0, with the next
release slated to be 9.1. The product contains a grade two braille
reverse translator, so you can use the keyboard to edit or enter text.
The Reading Edge is priced at $5500.

The Reading AdvantEdge is primarily a software product for a PC. It runs
under DOS. The user interface is speech friendly, and works with every
DOS screen reader and speech synthesizer that I have tried. The software
requires quite a bit of memory, as well as 32-bit power, so it will only
run on a '386 or '486 and above, with eight megabytes of memory
recommended. It supports two scanners of our own - the GS-Plus and the
SA4-3 - as well as the entire line of HP Scanners, the ScanJet, ScanJet
Plus, HPIIP, and HPIIC. Features include speak immediately (where you
can listen to text as it is scanned and recognized - as well as navigate
and search for text strings throughout the multi-page document that you
are creating while it is being created), batch processing (scan first,
recognize later), page collation, support for over 40 word processor
formats, column recognition, automatic page orientation detection,
automatic brightness (for HPIIP and HPIIC only), user lexicons, and
quite a few other features. The software is $795. Bundled with a
GS-Plus, which is a 300 DPI, 8.5 by 14 inch flatbed scanner, it is
$1295. Bundled with an SA-4, which is a 400 DPI, 8.5 by 14 inch bookedge
scanner, it is $2995.

I wrote the Reading AdvantEdge, and also spent quite a bit of time on
The Reading Edge. I would be happy to answer any questions you might
have about it. For the former, my basic philosophy was to include as
many features as I could - its predecessor, PC/KPR, was too simple (and
hence to limited) for my taste. The recognition accuracy is on par or
better than that of any of our competitors. Where it really excells, I
think, is in connectivity with other applications on your PC. Its
functionality can be accessed from the command line, allowing you to
embed it into larger scripts using batch files. You can also invoke
other applications directly from within The Reading AdvantEdge. For
example, after scanning and formatting a document, you can be editing
that document in WordPerfect with two keystrokes.

If you have questions, please ask. AdvantEdge has only been shipping for
a few weeks, so disinterested reviews may take a while.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Stephen.Baum
Internet: Stephen.Baum@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Advantage Here!
From: Stephen.Baum@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org (Stephen Baum)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:101/460.0 - VI/BUG, Holbrook MA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

David, you are absolutely right - you can get commercial OCR products at
a lower price than those designed for the adaptive market. Most of the
expense for software comes in the development stage. Manufacturing, of
course, is quite cheap. Consequently, companies have to recoup their
development costs by figuring out how much they need to make on each
sale, given a projected number of sales. It goes without saying, the
projected number of sales for a product in this market is quite a bit
lower than that for the general commercial market. So, you end up with
the strange experience of a charity selling an OCR product for
considerably more than the price of the commercial product with the same
OCR technology, from a decidedly for profit vendor. In the defense of my
own company, Xerox Imaging Systems, our pricing for the Reading
AdvantEdge is quite agressive.

On the other hand, the OCR technology behind commercial products is in
fact the same as that behind the adaptive products. Caere OmniPage does
not recognize any better than TSI's Oscar, nor Calera Wordscan better
than Arkenstone's OpenBook, nor Xerox Imaging System's ScanWorx than its
Reading Edge or Reading AdvantEdge. Certainly, the feature set supplied
is different, but, if you count them up, you'll find that different is
the operative word, not more, not less. For XIS, the most useful
commercial features which are not yet in our adaptive products are
probably the verifier, which would enable you to train the system to
recognize better, and preview, where you can look at an image of the
scanned page, and, using a mouse, determine which sections you want
recognized in which order. I left those features out because they are
both inherently visual in their current implementations. I would be
happy to take suggestions as to how to implement them in the future in a
way that will work for you.

I know you like OmniPage's trick of providing you with immediate access
to an editor. It may surprise you to learn that the vast majority of
users of that product disable that feature, because they would rather do
the editing in a full-blown editor, such as word perfect. In fact, my
favorite approach is that taken by OmniPage Direct, which allows you to
scan using a menu item while within a word processor (usually Word for
Windows), shuffling the output into the document you are editing,
beginning at your cursor position. You can do the same, by the way, with
The Reading Edge by using the serial port, and a TSR on your PC called
OpenPort.

Well, I've typed enough for tonight. Thanks for listening.

Steph

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!101!460.0!Stephen.Baum
Internet: Stephen.Baum@p0.f460.n101.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Why Not "Visually Oriented?"
From: Sam.Troia@p4.f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Sam Troia)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203.4 - The BATcave Mail On, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Oh, Boy, hearing oriented, visually oriented ... It seems to me
that this whole trend of finding new nomenclature to fit conditions
that already have names is more than ridiculous. First of all I'm
blind and that's that.  Anyone who needs to find another name for
it (or any other disability) comes across as very insecure.

Also changing the name of a disability isn't going to promote
social awareness and public education any more than the old names
do.  As I said it only sounds like such people want to hide from
their true condition in life. It's like using the term physically
challenged:  first, the term is vague, not describing anything;
second, who is doing the challenging. Well, I should make it very
clear that this is my own opinion so whoever reads this can call
themselves whatever they want but blindness is what I have to cope
with in life and calling it by any other name ain't gonna change
nutt'n. Also if you're speaking to someone by phone, say, who can't
see you and you tell them that you're hearing oriented ... Well,
what's that supposed to mean?  Then we have to go and educate the
public to the fact that we don't want to be called blind any
more--and they're already next to impossible to educate anyhow.

It just makes more confusion. I'm blind and that's that.

Come on, be real.  To be politically correct is to admit to being
phony.  Why?  Because politicians and the whole political system is
phony.  So I want no part of political correctness or political
anything, for that matter.  As I said twice already, I'm blind and
that's that--I have no problem with it.

Sam

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203.4!Sam.Troia
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Subject: Why not visually oriented?
From: Sam.Troia@p4.f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Sam Troia)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203.4 - The BATcave Mail On, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > From: VCOOK%VTVM2.BITNET@VM1.NoDak.EDU (Virgil Cook)

 > Index Number: 29084
 > I get paid to see that my students use the English
 > language
 > properly.  This business of political correctness has
 > gotten
 > completely out of hand.  "visually challenged,"

Hi, Virgil,

I just wanted to say thank you many times over for these
wonderfully articulated sentiments.  I too responded to this
message but I liked your response better than mine.  You echoed my
sentiments exactly--these people who hide behind euphemisms are
nothing but insecure and they cause nothing but great confusion
where there was little before.  So again, thanks.

Oh, by the way, I think your name is very regal sounding--extraordinary.

Sam

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203.4!Sam.Troia
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Subject: Checkbook program
From: Sam.Troia@p4.f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org (Sam Troia)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:2603/203.4 - The BATcave Mail On, Flushing NY


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Walter,

I have here a shareware checkbook program called xpreschk.zip (for
express check).  I've never used it 'cause I don't use a checking
account but I let a couple of blind friends of mine have it and
they reported that it works fine with speech and they like it very
much.  Zipped it's about 165k.  If you'd like me to get it to you,
give me an address and I could send you a disk or maybe we could
set up some sort of freq arrangement.  Anyhow, you're welcome to
the file.

Sam

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Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!2603!203.4!Sam.Troia
Internet: Sam.Troia@p4.f203.n2603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Questions from a new dog
From: Bob.Humbert@p0.f99.n215.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Humbert)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:215/99.0 - Blink Connection, San Leandro CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Peter Scialli to Bob Humbert <=-

 PS> Bob,
 PS> I was reluctant to use a dog for several years after it was clear I
 PS> had lost enough sight to need special mobility aids of some sort.
 PS> In fact, I avoided using a cane as much as possible up until I went
 PS> to college.  At age 24 I got my first dog who is about to retire and
 PS> next month I'll be going to Seeing Eye for my second.

Will we be in school at the same time but in opposite ends of the country?

 PS> I am concerned that you seem to be looking at getting the dog as
 PS> having been, in some way, defeated.

You are a very perceptive shrink.  It's a very old childhood "hang up" caused
by very loving parents who thought that the more they acted as if it didn't
exist, the better it would be for everyone.  When they would immediately
change a T.V. channel to avoid seeing a program concerning disabled people,
I decided that it must be pretty bad to be  disabled, and I had to work
through all of that.

PS> I think experience with the dog will dispel you of such feelings, but you
have to give it a
 PS> fair chance.
PS> I think it is a myth that using a dog deprives the
 PS> user of a sense of his surroundings.  While it's true that there
 PS> is much less direct contact than with a cane, I believe you will
 PS> get a greater sense of the space between two points in a manner
 PS> parallel to what a sighted person does automatically.  You will
 PS> still have full use of your sense of sound, including facial
 PS> vision.  And don't totally discount the sense of touch.

 Peter, Your advice is very good, and what I was asking for.  However,as for
facial vision; I am sure that you are aware of the research that proved that
it is nothing more than sound reflection.  At your age, I could pass to
within 10 feet of a pole and know if it was wood or metal, and how far away
it was.  Unfortunately, time will take that away from you also.  As for
touch, I still fear the idea of stepping off of a curb, and finding that it
is a loading dock, or a subway platform.  Not being able to dip the cane over
the edge to see how deep it is is going to really require faith.

 PS> Now, I believe you will grow to have a relationship with the
 PS> dog wherein each of you understands the needs and desires of
 PS> the other.

I too feel, believe, and hope for that. If not, I would be wasting a lot of
everyone's time and money, including my own by taking the training and
getting a dog.

PS> While I don't like the sometimes inappropriate
 PS> attentions of the sighted people around me, I love being able
 PS> to pick up the harness and go anyplace I like without lots of
 PS> preplanning and worry as I once did with a cane. I think you
 PS> will find that a dog, in terms of companionship, offers new
 PS> and surprising benefits which are not readily interchangible
 PS> with the freindship of peers or that of your wife.

26 years ago, I bred and showed dalmatians.  My champion bitch took 39 first
place blue ribbons.  She was a great companion and attracted a lot of
attention.  The companionship was good, but I could not justify all of the
time and expense required to put a "blind person-dog guide team" for that.
Dalmatians have the temperament of a healthy 12 year old boy, and about as
much sense.  As much as I loved her, I shutter to think of trusting her to
give me any thing but love and an occasional laugh.

 PS> I agree, by the way, with the ability to get help.  I
 PS> actually think I get less in the DC subway than people with
 PS> canes, but when I where jeans and a T shirt, like on the
 PS> weekend, I get no help at all!
 PS>
 PS> Good luck,
 PS> Peter

Thanks, Peter, I will need all that I can get.  Speaking of good luck, When
do you go for your interview?  You are going to do great!! One more sales
trick."assume consent".  Never say "when can I start to work?"  Instead say,
"May I start to work next week, or would the first of the month be better?

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!215!99.0!Bob.Humbert
Internet: Bob.Humbert@p0.f99.n215.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: questions from a new dog user
From: Bob.Humbert@p0.f99.n215.z1.fidonet.org (Bob Humbert)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:215/99.0 - Blink Connection, San Leandro CA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 -=> Quoting Paul Guido to Bob Humbert <=-

 PG> Good decision.  A dog gave me more independence, effigency, and self
 PG> confidence.  You'll see what I mean after you have the dog a few years
 PG> then you will say why did I never get a dog before.

Thanks for the good wishes.  I bet that you are correct.  In general, I have
gone through life kicking and screaming whenever I had to make another
adaptive change and after it was done, I kicked and screamed at myself for
not making the change sooner.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!215!99.0!Bob.Humbert
Internet: Bob.Humbert@p0.f99.n215.z1.fidonet.org




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                 End of Issue # 940 of the Blind News Digest

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