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                            THE BLIND NEWS DIGEST

                                 Issue # 942

                          Wednesday, June 16, 1993

Today's Topics:


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                        Re: Kitchen Sink Programming
                    laptops, macs, outspoken and telnet?
                             Re: New Text Reader
                              Checkbook program
                         Re: Laptops, macs, outspok
                                  Jaws 2.3
                          Re: braille code changes.
                        Re: Kitchen Sink Programming
                   Re: Working Dog Guides in Parking Lots
                            Re: scanner question


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Subject: Re: Kitchen Sink Programming
From: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (William Wilson)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 SB> I am interested in the program tinyed.*.  Please send me a
 SB> message with more info.  I hate kitchen sink programming as well
 SB> And want a good symple editor.

Sam,
    I've been sitting back watching this thread, assuming it is the one
in which our other Sam referred to Qedit as "cumbersome", expecting
others to come to the defense of what most consider the best editor in
the game!  Seeing as nobody has up to now said anything though, let
me...

     Are you guys serious, or are you pulling my leg?  I mean, honestly,
I can't believe that anyone would use words like "kitchen sink
programming" and "cumbersome" to describe Qedit, as it is exactly for
the fact I find it just the opposite that I use it exclusively for any
and all text editing and much of everything else I do with my computer,
including typing this message to you!  I think Sam T's original
complaint was about the use of different keys to do the same thing, but
frankly, I never did quite understand that one!  I mean, several times
now other participants in this echo have pointed out to me when I've
described how I use the Word Style commands with which I'm most
comfortable to do some particular task how they do it with alt key
commands, but unless one has some sort of a key conflict with their
speech program, why does the fact there are more than one way of doing
something with Qedit bother you?  Word Perfect, meaning the full blown
program, not the editor, was actually brought up in the same sentence as
the one that described Qedit as "cumbersome", and honestly, that's why I
wasn't even sure if this was a serious complaint or not!  If there is
any program out there more cumbersome than Word Perfect, at least for
me, I'd like to know what it is!  Yeah, yeah, I realize that comparing
Word Perfect and Qedit is an apples versus oranges thing, but like
Walter, I'm sort of tired of that analogy as well, so won't use it here.

     Anyways, I fully understand why someone wants to use those programs
with which they are most comfortable, and this is one of the reasons I
seldomly come to the defense of one or another when these debates arise
here, but most definitely, the reasons that Qedit is consistantly one of
the award winning editors and ranked so high by all the people who rank
things like this is because of its flexibility and size (About 47k) not
because it is "cumbersome" or a product of "kitchen sink programming"!
It is one of the few programs I literally use every day that I have no
complaints about, and yes, I think I have an awfully lot of company!
                                        Willie

... BlinkTalk, Commo and Silver in Pittsburgh!

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89!William.Wilson
Internet: William.Wilson@f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: laptops, macs, outspoken and telnet?
From: Tim.Spofford@p3.f62.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Tim Spofford)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:105/62.3 - Rule 62, Portland OR


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

 > Phew!  Now for the questions.  Outspoken from Berkeley Systems has
 > been around a while now.    It's very attractive since it uses the
 > on-board hardware, thus making it cheap.  But has anyone tried it on
 > one of the portable Macs yet?

It works fine, IF (important!) you plug in a standard keyboard or,
better and perhaps more convenient, an external number pad to
navigate OutSpoken.  Trying to do it with a PowerBook keyboard is,
at best, difficult and at worst, impossible.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!105!62.3!Tim.Spofford
Internet: Tim.Spofford@p3.f62.n105.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: New Text Reader
From: Samuel.Bushman@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Samuel Bushman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Qread reply
Hi I agree with you.  We are almost done with a version that will
have some file management and route the screen updates thru bios.
This will solve all problems with screen readers.  Please give
Qread another try as soon as it's out.  I will let all of you
know.
Remember with your help we will create the ultimate text reader
for the blind.
Thanks for your insight.
sam

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Samuel.Bushman
Internet: Samuel.Bushman@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Checkbook program
From: Jeff.Belina@f5297.n3603.z1.fidonet.org (Jeff Belina)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:3603/5297 - Henter-Joyce Techni, St Petersburg FL


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

cc: Walter Siren

Les Kriegler wrote in a message to Walter Siren:

LK> You are correct about the checks.  It will cost close to $50
LK> for 250 checks. If you print your checks, you will certainly
LK> pay more for them than you will through your bank.  Les

I just thought of something, doesn't quicken interface with
CheckFree, so that you don't have to print out a check at home, you
can have them send your check to the recipient?  Would this help,
or is it more important to be able to print checks at home and
bring them somewhere with you.

I hate to ask this question because it sounds so dumb, however I am
interested in your answer(s), so I'll ask anyhow.

Bfn,
Jeff Belina
Technical Support
Henter-Joyce, Inc.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!3603!5297!Jeff.Belina
Internet: Jeff.Belina@f5297.n3603.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Laptops, macs, outspok
From: Kelly.Ford@f8.n121.z1.fidonet.org (Kelly Ford)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:121/8 - JW-PC DataFlex.HST, Sun Prairie WI


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Peter,
I haven't used outSPOKEN on a portable a great deal but have used it
with various TElnet packages with good success.  You might want to give
Marc Sutton a call at Berkeley (510) 540-5535.  I know he uses outSPOKEN
on a Mac portable a fair amount of the time.
Kelly

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!121!8!Kelly.Ford
Internet: Kelly.Ford@f8.n121.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Jaws 2.3
From: Walter.Siren@p42.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org (Walter Siren)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:396/17.42 - N. O. P. C. Club, New Orleans LA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a message David Tanner typed to Kelly Ford
 DT>     Have you tried the 23convert program. It was my impressin that that is
 DT> exactly what it does. I may be incorrect, but I know when I installed my
 DT> new update that it converted all my files to 2.3 configs from 2.2 so that I
 DT> didn't have to go make new configs for Qedit, Readit and all that.

It only converted your voice files and enviroment files.  The only
reason you might have thought that it converted the rest, is
because they will work with 23, but they will not have the new
macros in them.  If you had any of your own, then you would either
have to add them to the new macro file, or add the new macros that
are the new files to your old macro files.

Walter

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!396!17.42!Walter.Siren
Internet: Walter.Siren@p42.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: braille code changes.
From: Walt.Cone@f145.n138.z1.fidonet.org (Walt Cone)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:138/145 - The Cats' Paws, Tacoma WA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hi Jim:

You asked who thought braille was dificult?  Until recently in the
70's and 80s many ****_not all****_ professionals in the field of
work for the blind felt that braille was old fashioned and
difficult to learn.  I believe that the people who want to change
the braille code want to make the current English braille more
compatible with Computer braille.

I would not have a problem with that, as long as they don't muddy
up the watter making other changes.

Maybee others have a better idea about this, but I'm not going to
loose much sleep over it, People have been trying to change what we
use now for years.

I had another quick thought, I found a book in the library a few
months back and it was written in old AMERICAN STANDARD braille.  I
think they used 7 or 8 dots for there alphabet and contractions.

Take care:

Walt

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!138!145!Walt.Cone
Internet: Walt.Cone@f145.n138.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Kitchen Sink Programming
From: Samuel.Bushman@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (Samuel Bushman)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hay I am sorry if you think I'm putting down Qedit.  That is not
my intention.  I agreed that programs that do to much are a
problem.  I didn't mean to imply Qedit was that way.  I am also
writing this message using Qedit.  But, the statement remains the
same programs that do to much become ridden with the feature
creature.
Also some one said they found a good little editor that they
like.  I would like to give it a try.
No argument intended.
sam

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!Samuel.Bushman
Internet: Samuel.Bushman@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: Working Dog Guides in Parking Lots
From: George.Mccoy@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org (George Mccoy)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:129/89.0 - BlinkLink, Pittsburgh PA


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

Hello Carla!

I don't think there is a short answer, here.  I suggest you set aside
some hours to just work on parking lots.  Do some familiar ones and heap
on the priase when Max does them properly.  Then move to some not so
familiar ones and see what happens.  The main thing is to work on the
problem when you're not trying to get somewhere by a certain time or
when you are loaded down with groceries, packages or whatever.  Doing
this tends to take some of the pressure off of you and Max.
It sounds like you have a great dog.  One day he will get the general
idea and away you'll go.  The main thing is to work on the problem when
you have plenty of time and are not under pressure to be somewhere or do
something else.  Hope this helps

Good luck,
George and Bullet

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!129!89.0!George.Mccoy
Internet: George.Mccoy@p0.f89.n129.z1.fidonet.org




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Subject: Re: scanner question
From: David.Tanner@f234.n109.z1.fidonet.org (David Tanner)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:109/234 - Braille Bank BBS, Oakton Va


[This is from the Blink Talk Conference]

In a msg on <May 14 16:10>, William Wilson of 1:129/89 writes:

 WW> Windows on my system.  I'm not quite as much an advocate of
 WW> avoiding the trend as that person who posted the proposal for
 WW> a ban on those speech programs giving access to the GUI, but
 WW> by the same token, I am not exactly thrilled about Windows
 WW> residing on my disk, no matter how invisible it may be in
 WW> most cases.

 WW>      Maybe I ought to totally abandon my plan to get a scanner
 WW> and go to the convention and party with Walter, Donna, Don
 WW> and the others, what do you think?

I think there are several good products out there, but after more
experiences this past week with things that wouldn't scan right on
anything I tried them on than I think I have ever had since I
started using any one of these products; I am convinced that for
all that they will do that there is still one heck of a lot that
they won't do.

Based on some of the crappy print and different fonts I delt with
this week I am beginning to believe that, without having seen
Reading Advantage, I think I would opt for the Reading Edge since
it seems to do a better job with large fonts, and after a page or
two of reading the same basic font style it has learned the font so
well that there will hardly be any errors in it's scans. But then
there are a couple of problems with it too including the $5,200
price tag.

If you don't think you really need the scanner this year you really
might be better to wait awhile yet. Go party and have some fun.

    D. T.

--
Uucp: ..!uunet!bunker!hcap!hnews!109!234!David.Tanner
Internet: David.Tanner@f234.n109.z1.fidonet.org




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                 End of Issue # 942 of the Blind News Digest

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