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                            THE BLIND NEWS DIGEST

                                 Issue # 1050

                          Wednesday, June 29, 1994

Today's Topics:


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                Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
                       ASTER's hardware requirements?
                               deaf and blind
                       Re: Need computer speech advice
                          Re: getting books on disk
                             Re: Talkative Menus
                Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
                          Re: getting books on disk
                                Re: scanners
                  help w/vocational needs blind adolescents
                Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
                        Reading Machine for the Blind


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Subject: Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.


Why is it so expensive?

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu




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Subject: ASTER's hardware requirements?
From: jmorgan@math.uci.edu (John Joseph Morgan)

I am a blind graduate student in math, and I will soon buy a new computer
system. I want to buy T.V. Raman's new program ASTER for reading latex.
Does anybody know ASTER's hardware requirements, and a good place to buy
the program?
Thanks
John Morgan





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Subject: deaf and blind
From: ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler)
Organization: M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Lab.


A friend of mine, now in his 80's, has been losing his hearing for
a while now. Recently he told me that his retina is deteriorating
as well. I am contemplating the probably agonizing isolation he will experience
if he becomes both deaf and blind. I'm wondering what can be done to enable
him to continue to communicate and to enjoy an active intellectual
life after these two senses fail him.

Part of the problem is that he refuses even to wear a hearing aid,
saying that it is not good for his particular type of deafness. I can't
evaluate this statement, but I find it hard to believe that it really
can't do any good at all. He can hear if one speaks loud and distinctly.

First question: once the retina starts to deteriorate, how long does
it take to go completely blind?

It seems to me that his sense of touch is probably intact. That means that
if he has the will to do so, he can learn braille. That would at least let
him read. He has never used a computer but if he could be persuaded to do so,
that opens the possibility that a program with voice recognition could
transcribe what people say into braille.

If he knows sign language, he could sign to others even if he couldn't
see their responses; those he could get either through the computer or
through touch-sign language (which I conjecture must exist).

I would guess that there is probably a form of sign language for people
who are both deaf and blind. It would probably be easier for him to
learn it if he starts while he can still hear and see.

Perhaps knowing that he doesn't have to do all this alone would also
help, i.e. that his friends and family would also learn these things
with him. How can they (and I) learn these things?

I think it might be possible to persuade him to try, but that all the
details of what he has to do should be available from the beginning of
the discussions. He is quite intelligent and still quite alert.
I have no doubt he can learn all of this easily if he has the morale
and will to do so. But all the answers have to be there.

How does one put together a plan to use his sight and hearing, while they
last, to learn to live without them in the near future?

It seems that all of the answers are very expensive. It probably doesn't
have to be that way. But meanwhile, what are the answers, whatever they cost?

Allan Adler
ara@altdorf.ai.mit.edu




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Subject: Re: Need computer speech advice
From: mgflax@panix.com (Marshall G. Flax)
Organization: Currently, _extremely_ disorganized

In article <32659@handicap.news>,
Robert Edward <edwar029@maroon.tc.umn.edu> wrote:
>Index Number: 32659
>
>My friend wants to use his computer for online services and amateur radio
>(packet).  When I tested the speech synthesis system with terminal
>programs, it rebelled.  The screen reader missed words, and eventually
>froze up completely.  Rebooting only resumed the cycle of errors.

Which terminal programs?  Kermit, in particular, seems far more forgiving
of speech synthesizers (especially with "set terminal none") than many
other terminal programs.

marshall
--
[Marshall G. Flax -- 718-256-3482 -- 8776 16th Ave #2, Brooklyn, NY 11214-5802]




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Subject: Re: getting books on disk
From: jejanes@mtu.edu (Jeff E. Janes)
Organization: Michigan Technological University

Betsy Meyer (betsym@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
: Index Number: 32592
:
: Books on Disk-
:    We would like publishers of texts expected to be used by colleges,
: universities (even K-12 schools) to make those texts available to us on
: disk in an ASCII or wordprocessing file which we could use in translations
: for students with disabilities.  We would expect to pay for those disks -
: but no more than the actual book costs - so the publishers wouldn't loose a
: sale.  Those same books on disk could be purchased by the disabled to be
: read by their own screen readers.  We think this is an area the publishing
: field has not tapped and we wish to make them aware of it.
:   Thanks for your help.
:
I think publishers are already aware of this area, and are scared
to death of it.  With the ease and extent of copyright infringement
using computers, I can see why they would be anxious about selling
disks with the text.  One set of disk could cost them thousands of
book sales, and most of their fat profits.
Alas, another roadblock on the information s---- h------ [explitives
deleted]

Jeff




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Subject: Re: Talkative Menus
From: jejanes@mtu.edu (Jeff E. Janes)
Organization: Michigan Technological University

Administration User (panda@trace16.waisman.wisc.edu) wrote:
: Index Number: 32605
:
: I'm not necessarily critical of this service because having access to a menu's
: great.
: However, when I tried this the other day I found that the recorded menu was
: very incomplete when compared to the print menu.
:

A complete menu would take an awfully long time to go through on tape.
Some method of skimming using CD would be necessary, but I don't
know how it would have to work.

Jeff




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Subject: Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
From: ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen)
Organization: TIH (Trondheim College of Engeneering)

In article <32663@handicap.news>, ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu (Allan Adler) says:

>Why is it so expensive?

Main reason (here in Norway, and a lot of other places as well):

It is not paid for by the user in person, but (at least in part)
by health authorities, health insurance companies etc. etc.
When a high price level has been established (histoically
because those who paid didn't have enough expertise to argue
that is doesn't have to be that expensive), *all* vendors
try to milk that cow; the high price is just "the way it has to
be". Bargains is when they charge only three times as much as
manufacturing costs, not four times as much...

(Well, if it was all done by idealistic, non-profit companies
that plow all the income back into development of better
handicap aids, I wouldn't mind. But generally, that is NOT
the case!)

This applies to all sorts of aids and tools for handicapped
users. But on the other hand, when you think of it: A braille
line of 80 chars, each 6 dots, plus a couple "status" ones at
the ends of the line. That makes roughly 500 dots - each
controlled by a tiny solenoid (I guess). 500 mineature spools
of hair thin wire, in a mechanical setup that must not fail,
even after a million activations. (Remember that a single
failing dot on a blacktext printer or a screen is barely
noticable - a failing braille dot garbles the text completely
for that character cell.) Manufacturing a reliable braille
line is certainly not trivial!

That is not to say that they need to be that expensive.
If they rather than solenoids used piezoelectric crystals, I'd
think production costs would be a lot less (maybe they DO use
piezoelectrics - I am not a braille reader myself, I have just
seen others use them, and haven't studied them close-up).
Maybe you could use a low voltage discharge (2-5 V?) solid
state technology for a cheap alternative? - the feeling would
no doubt be different from tactile braille, but maybe it would
be just as easy reading. Anyone seen anything in that direction?

ketil




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Subject: Re: getting books on disk
From: ketil@edb.tih.no (Ketil Albertsen)
Organization: TIH (Trondheim College of Engeneering)

In article <32674@handicap.news>, jejanes@mtu.edu (Jeff E. Janes) says:

>Betsy Meyer (betsym@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>:    We would like publishers of texts expected to be used by colleges,
>: universities (even K-12 schools) to make those texts available to us on
>: disk in an ASCII or wordprocessing file which we could use in translations
>: for students with disabilities.

>I think publishers are already aware of this area, and are scared
>to death of it.  With the ease and extent of copyright infringement
>using computers, I can see why they would be anxious about selling
>disks with the text.

Norwegian copyright laws explicitly allows conversion of otherwise
copyrighted material to a format that makes it accessible to
handicapped readers.

In my daughter's class, they will start reading excerpts from
novels this fall (when they start 3rd grade). The school library
provides one paper copy for each student, and Ingunn's teacher
will use a scanner and OCR program to generate her a braille
copy. This is perfectly legal in Norway - I don't know what the
situation is in other countries.




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Subject: Re: scanners
From: mattioli@panix.com (John Mattioli)
Organization: Panix Public Access Internet & Unix, NYC


Hi,

        I'd be very surprised if the same software is used as the
recognition engine for both the OSCAR and Open Book.  This is because the
Open Book is a windows-based system and oscar is not.  Redeveloping
either system so they could use the same recognition engine would be a
MAJOR undertaking!

        As a user of the Xerox Imaging Systems software (Reading
AdvantEdge) I'm not REALLY familiar with either package you mentioned but:

1.      Because OpenBook is windows based they've developed their own
screen reader functionality.  You can't use your favorite screen reader.
Oscar, being dos-based works with your favorite access technology.

2.      I believe that most people feel that Oscar is faster then Open Book.

        If you need more info (particularly on AdvantEdge) let me know.

                                        John

P.S.    a money saving tip.  You can usually do better buying the scanner
hardware from some mainstream computer suplier and only the software from
your favorite vendor of adaptive technology.




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Subject: help w/vocational needs blind adolescents
From: aloftus@eis.calstate.edu (Ann Loftus)
Organization: California Technology Project of The Calif State Univ

what are some resources for ideas about how to engage and direct
these students toward post-high school/college careers.  Any books
or studies,etc? The population that I will be working with is
composed of 8th through 10th grade students. The principal of the
school is very interested in voc.training. Thanks!

aloftus@eis.CalState.Edu




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Subject: Re: BRAILLE OUTPUT DEVICES FOR PC COMPATIBLES
From: ed@twain.ucs.umass.edu (ed)
Organization: University of Massachusetts, Amherst

Allan Adler (ara@zurich.ai.mit.edu) wrote:
: Index Number: 32663

: Why is it so expensive?

If this is about a braile printer, it is because they have a bad habit of
tearing themselves apart.  Also, it isn't exactly an item in high demand,
so there isn't the competition there would be in some other areas.

My suggestion would be to forego this and go the route  of a scanner and
a speech package.  In the long run, this will allow you to do more things
and while it wouldn't be as fast as braile, you wouldn't be dealing with
having to maintain and repair a braile printer.

Caveat:  make sure that you *like* the speech package before you buy it,
while they all basicly do the same thing, they have significant
differences.  For example, some 'read' the letter you backspace over and
others do not.  And then there are hardware issues, ram requirements and
all that.

0ne other unrelated thing:  the type of KEYBOARD makes a big difference.
While most are interchangable, there are two differences:  first, some keys
(like the pipe [|], control, etc) are in different places.  Second, and
most importantly, the 'feel' of keyboards differ vastly.

My personal preference for a keyboard is a Zenith one, and visually
impaired people tell me that they find the Zenith one much easier to use
than others.

Hope this is helpful
Ed
ed@educ.umass.edu




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Subject: Reading Machine for the Blind
From: triqua@telerama.lm.com (True Heart)
Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA

FOR SALE:  Xerox/Kurzweil Personal Reader



     This is a stand-alone, (needs no other equipment to work) computer
which scans printed materials and speaks the text aloud in any of nine
clear voices.  It's very blind user friendly, and there is no need for
any computer knowledge at all.  Main unit with hand scanner is portable,
so it can be used in classrooms, libraries, etc.  The automatic scanner
sits on a desktop and looks like a very small desktop copier.  System can
also be connected to a PC for text storage and retrieval, or to act as a
speech synthesizer.

Comes With:

Carrying case
Manuals in print, braille, and on cassette
All necessary cables
Assistance from previous owner on anything you might find the least bit
confusing, though even children can use this machine with ease.

     System is in excellent condition.  Originally cost me $11,995.00.
Asking $2800.00 or best offer.  Please contact me, Becky, by E-mail.
Thank you.

Triqua@Telerama.Lm.Com

(P.S.  Payment plans will be considered.)

--
"What else could I write?
I don't have the right..."





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                 End of Issue # 1050 of the Blind News Digest

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